Lets Talk "Juiced" Images

soty27

So many times while browsing threads on this board I often see people ask, "what does a juiced image look like or how is it done?". I thought I would share some of my personal experience as well as some examples of what they look like and a few things to look for when attempting to spot them.


Image number one

Nice toned franklin, no enhancements, Image taken with three light sources and simply uploaded to the computer.




Here is the same image but with the saturation turned up. Now you might tell yourself, "oh I can spot that a mile away". A lot of people are turning the saturation of the image up and then cutting the coin out of the holder and pasting it back into the image of the holder without the juicing as to make the holder appear as if the image was not juiced.




Now most people will not take the time to cut the coin out of the holder, juice it and paste it back into the holder. For the sellers who do not cut and paste the coin the best way to spot the juiced image is to look at the holder and look for "pixelation" of the holder as seen in the image below. Sometimes the holder on a proof coin will appear pixelated due to the way you generally have to shoot proof coins to get the color to show on the highly reflective fields. I obviously over did this one but it's to give everyone an idea of what I am talking about.




Now here is an image I pulled off of ebay, I cropped the image to protect the seller but you can see pretty clearly the pixelation on the obverse image. One of the very telling signs that the obverse photo is enhanced is that the image of the reverse is not pixelated at all but it was imaged in the same way that the obverse shot was.






I pulled this image off of ebay as well. I cropped the coin out for the most part to protect the seller. Now here is another clever way of attempting to fool people. This seller went so far as to state in his image that the image was taken with direct sunlight. If you look closely at the prongs on the holder you can see a clear line, one side of the line looks a bit on the hazy side and the other side of the line appears to be crisp and very colorful. Sellers accomplish this by using a photo editing program. They can select a part of any image and enhance the selected portion of the image. Due to coins generally being tilted when imaged the circle you create to select portions of the image will not match up 100% therefore creating a line that is very out of place. In the photo below you can see clearly that the inside portion has been saturated and brightened.




Now there are exceptions to every rule and a lot can depend on how the image was taken, what equipment was used, and what lighting was used. If you take the above information and simply use it as guidelines it should help you avoid alot of returned coins. Some sellers simply enhance their images to get the coin like it does in hand because they are unable to image the coin but if you come across someone asking alot of money for coins that appear to be very colorful it should warrant a closer look Hope this helps someone out a bit.

soty27

Okay fixed my post

Whit

Thank you very much, soty27, for this very interesting post.

Whit

lcoopie

nice demonstration

it's also good if there is a known color in the picture
so you know what it's supposed to look like
ie the label

cameron12x

Very good examples and description... Thanks!

pheh

But what about dejuiced images?





But seriously... good thread. Be careful out there. And it isn't just eBay you have to worry about.

adamlaneus

If you are working in a photo editor yourself, you should know that there is a relationship between contrast and saturation.
If you boost the contrast, you are also boosting the saturation. This 'juices' the image in a slightly different way than just a saturation adjustment would, as it enhances brightness differences; not just colors.
If you turn the contrast up, you should also take care and see if you need to turn the saturation down to keep it looking real.

SkyMan

Good stuff, soty! Actually it can get really funky once you start playing around with high value images. In interpreting satellite images there is a transform called IHS. It stands for Intensity, Hue and Saturation. Basically you take a standard satellite image and tweak it so that there are more "rotational axis" that you can use for statistical analysis.

kryptonitecomics

Good thread Chris....certainly something I have been trying to point on here for years when someone posts a juiced photo. If you have ever imaged coins you know what to look for and you know what adjustments with make a coin, a slab or even a background look like when played with.....its a major issue on Ebay, at least for honest sellers.

With a toned coin you should be able to clearly see all of the details when imaged unless the coin is very dark or the camera is sub par like a 2 MP. Otherwise when you see the neon images of coins and the coins details aren't sharp you know it's a juice job. I am all for sellers and collectors making a few adjustments if it make the coins image appear more like the coin will in hand but sadly the reason for most adjustments from ebay sellers is purely profit driven.

What I don't understand is when Ebay buyers buy a glow in the dark monster on Ebay and they get the coin in hand...and it's nowhere near as colorful and certainly not worth the 10X premium they paid....why aren't they A) sending the coin back for a refund and leaving feedback to alert other buyers that the images are deceptive?


Crazy

SaorAlba

Nice presentation, keep up the good work and would like to see more soon.

BillJones

The coin as it was pictured on the Internet



The coin as it looked in reality.



The technique is to over expose the picture, which hides the circulation marks. I learned a valuable lesson from this.

Coppercolor

Nice post Chris. Great examples of pixelation on the slab.
Jeff

DCW

Educational thread. I guess we have to keep in mind from all this that we can seldom judge or grade a coin accurately before it is in hand. Lighting, exposure, and high tech editing can hide everything unpleasant about a coin, and furthermore enhance its attributes.
Nice post.

yellowkid

Nice work, thanks for that!!! I know you can't always tell, as you have demonstrated, but I like to see one pic of the coin in it's holder under more natural lighting, some sellers do this.

mgoodm3

I find that different people have different standards for what appears "juiced." One man's juiced image is another man's "great" image. Maybe accurate image interpretation is inate, maybe learned and maybe a bit of both.

There is a certain amount of contrast that occurs in normal rela world lighting, if exceeded an image will appear unnatural.

I always ask the question: "Does this image look like a coin or an 'image of a coin'"

MikeInFL

The easiest way for me to detect juiced images is to look at the white areas -- juiced photos have excessive/enhanced chroma noise which appears like grainyness (and shown very well in the photo by the OP, appended below)....Mike

cameron12x

<< <i>I find that different people have different standards for what appears "juiced." One man's juiced image is another man's "great" image. Maybe accurate image interpretation is inate, maybe learned and maybe a bit of both.

There is a certain amount of contrast that occurs in normal rela world lighting, if exceeded an image will appear unnatural.

I always ask the question: "Does this image look like a coin or an 'image of a coin'" >>


Well put... juiced images can make a coin look incredibly good (almost surreal) or incredibly poor.

Trying to get the most accurate representation possible is best...

IloiloKano

<< <i>Okay fixed my post >>



soty27,

Fixed what?

Did the person who put up the ebay images intimidate you into taking them down by claiming copyright infringement? If so, you are free to put them right back up without fear of violating copyright laws. Your post is instructive commentary, and as such it clearly falls under the Fair Use Exception.

"Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as for commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship."

Here is a Wikipedia link to a description of the Fair Use Doctrine, but you can find many other links to this doctrine yourself with a simple Google search.

Don't let the bozos who engage in photo manipulation intimidate you!

And thank you for your efforts to help others.

For more ways to identify intentionally oversaturated images, and also a case where someone tried to intimidate me into removing his "copyrighted image", see my response to JZrarities post about a Churchill Crown here. It's about the 4th response down from the original post.

Regards,
IloiloKano

FredF

I don't like Heritage's pictures of coins that are "expensive" - they have one pair that looks much better but is clearly overexposed. I prefer the "normal" pictures and think those are fair.

I have bought a fair amount from Heritage and have never been unhappy with a purchase, but I wish they would cool it with the overexposed set of pictures because no coin ever looks like those.

-Fred

stinkinlincoln

Good images. The juiced ones look like a member/poster/ebayer here. They ALWAYS look like the cartoon colors.

TONEDDOLLARS

I can only see Chris's pictures, no others are showing up. Not learning anything!

JZrarities

I'll Play.

I bought this from a Board Member.
(I probably should have returned it)

Here is the original pictures from the Seller




After purchasing it, I found the original coin in the Heritage Archives




Here is the most accurate picture I can take of it In Hand

kryptonitecomics

I like the pattern but it looks nothing like the sellers images and I can't even see how they could make it look like that

MikeInFL

For those playing along at home: Always beware the "mirror shot".