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Basal State grade??? Have you ever heard of this?

mrpaseomrpaseo Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I just found this on a web site.




<< <i>Basal State (Basal) - You can identify the lump of metal as being a coin.

Basil state coins have extraordinarily low value. A basil state large cent, for example, might sell for a nickel. >>



I never heard of "Basal State".

Ray

Comments

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,453 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes - it's BS. image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,096 ✭✭✭
    Yes, It's below PO-1.

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,453 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What does the PO stand for??
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,943 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What does the PO stand for?? >>



    Isnt that Poor?
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  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Yes, It's below PO-1. >>

    I believe PO-1 *was* basal state in the original Sheldon reference, was it not?
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,555 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It wouldn't surprise me if we start seeing auctions selling 5/16" flat washers as old coins in basal state on eBay, from the Ying Yang Dynasty in China, or somethin'.

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • mrpaseomrpaseo Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
    Wow, all these years... I really need to read more.

    thanks,
    Ray
  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I have heard of basal state. As noted, it is in Sheldon's works.
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,695 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Yes, It's below PO-1. >>

    I believe PO-1 *was* basal state in the original Sheldon reference, was it not? >>



    That's how I interpreted it when I started the ANACS grading service.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 14,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Poor-01 or Basal State in Sheldon's 1-70 point scale.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've known of that term for years. As mentioned, basal state and poor-1 are equal.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,689 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Yes, It's below PO-1. >>

    I believe PO-1 *was* basal state in the original Sheldon reference, was it not? >>



    That's how I interpreted it when I started the ANACS grading service.
    TD >>




    Hmmm..... gotta ask questions...

    would you now say the definition has changed to define BS as lower than PO-01, or not changed?


    I ask because:


    << <i>Basal State (Basal) - You can identify the lump of metal as being a coin. >>



    differs from the Poor PCGS has:


    << <i>Poor
    The grade PO-1. A coin with readable date and mint mark (if present), but little more, barely identifiable as to type. (One-year type coins do not require a readable date to qualify for this grade.)
    See Also -- PO-1
    PO-1
    This is for "Poor" (the grade) and "1" (the numerical designation that means Poor). A coin of this grade is basically uncollectible due to its terrible condition, but coins of great rarity (such as an 1802 half dime) are still of considerable value and in demand in this grade. In order to "reach" this grade a coin must be identifiable as to date and type and not be horribly damaged (such as holes).
    See Also -- Poor
    >>

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    A “basal state” coin is a condition issue where the disc of metal can be identified as a struck coin. There may perhaps be slight evidence of a rim or a single letter or other devices remaining on the disk, which can aid to identify it as a struck coin.

    A PO-1 will immediately indicate it is a struck coin due to the amount of detail remaining. Some dateless coins can be graded PO-1 because of single issue years, like the 1964 Kennedy half dollar. There was only one year it was minted in 90% silver, a very identifiable trait.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    I have a few basal state coppers. I don't find enjoyment in them but I can't bare to get rid of them since they are "coins." They are a curse.
  • Raybob15239Raybob15239 Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭
    I've got a Seated Liberty Half that is in basal state. You can only barely detect a portion of the Liberty design and what appears to be a date (187?) but the reverse is basically smooth; no image remains. This coin was in a stream for a long time and the running water eroded the struck image.

    Edited to add: I wonder how a TPG like PCGS would treat this coin? Would it get a Genuine Slab (if any at all) or could it possibly be slabbed as Basal State? Just curious. (Yes, I know, worthless without pictures...)
    Successful B/S/T transactions: As Seller: PascoWA (June 2008); MsMorrisine (April 2009); ECHOES (July 2009) As Buyer: bfjohnson (July 2008); robkool (Dec 2010); itsnotjustme (Dec 2010) TwoSides2aCoin (Dec 2018) PrivateCoin Jan 2019
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    Raybob, in your case I believe the entire date would need to be legible in order to garner the "Genuine" grade.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • pmacpmac Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭
    And all along I thought it was a form of skin cancer. image
    Paul
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082 ✭
    "Basil state" is where a coin is so awful that it has to be kept at Fawlty Towers - without lavatory paper, too!
  • CarsonCityGoldCarsonCityGold Posts: 1,856 ✭
    Basal State??

    imageimage
    image
    My Carson City Gold Set



    My #1 Low Ball Peace Dollar Set
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    You must be thinking of Basil Fawlty, played by John Cleese. Now then, Basil Rathbone, that’s something totally different.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭
    I am approaching basal state myself...
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082 ✭
    ...that’s something totally different.

    ...that’s something completely different.

  • TONEDDOLLARSTONEDDOLLARS Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭✭
    I have seen and heard it used to describe GSA Morgans in the original holder and of the lowest grade unc.
    Magic Mirrors


    Rainbow Stars
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,758 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In Sheldon's system a Basal State coin was badly and extensively worn, BUT there was enough left to identify the Sheldon die variety. That detail did not necessarily include a readable date. The coin was also not supposed have any major damage. Sheldon stated that some identifiable, but badly damages coins were worth half of the Basal Value.

    The original purpose of the Sheldon grading scale was to place values on large cents by variety using the Basil State value. There for if a coin was worth a $1 in BS-01, a coin in Fine -12 was worth $12, a VF-20 was worth $20 and so on.

    Some years ago a collector gave me a group of dateless early large cents to identify. I don’t know very Sheldon numbers without the book, but I was amazed to find that I could pin point the varieties for all of them. It was a combination of looking at certain points and have sense from collecting early coins for many the approximate date by the die work. You would be amazed what you could spot from hand made dies. Once hubbing became the norm, things get a lot tougher.

    A more modern coin without a date that can’t be attributed by date or variety is not a BS-01 on the Sheldon scale. You need to be able to come up with a date for the coin to be gradable.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,453 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kraljevich at FUN showed me a large cent fragment (1/4 of the coin, said to be useful for paying for the ferry, I believe) that he was able to attribute.

    Would that qualify as BS/PO-1??

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Kraljevich at FUN showed me a large cent fragment (1/4 of the coin, said to be useful for paying for the ferry, I believe) that he was able to attribute.

    Would that qualify as BS/PO-1?? >>




    From Bill Jones reply right above this question

    The coin was also not supposed have any major damage.

    I suspect 3/4 of a coin missing could be considered major damage.
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,453 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The fragment didn't look damaged. image Sorry - it was meant to be funny......
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    BS/PO-1/4 then.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen

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