I can't believe this stuff! PM's could be next
Konahead
Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭
These guys want to grab whatever money they can, when they default down the road we will all be hosed. Time to bury the metals in the yard. 
WND MONEY
Obama to meddle with your retirement account?
Administration considers forcing investors into Treasury debt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: January 14, 2010
12:30 am Eastern
By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2010 WorldNetDaily
President Obama
The Obama administration appears to have come up with a novel way of financing trillion-dollar budget deficits – demanding IRA and 401(k) holders buy trillions of dollars in Treasury bonds.
With the Treasury needing this year to see another $1 trillion in debt to finance the anticipated federal budget deficit, and the Federal Reserve about to discontinue its 2009 program of buying Treasury bonds for the Fed's asset portfolio, the Obama administration is scrambling to find ways to sell government debt without having to raise interest rates.
Bloomberg reported Friday that Assistant Labor Secretary Phyllis C. Borzi and Deputy Assistant Treasury Mark Iwry are planning to stage a public comment period before implementing regulations that would require private investors to structure IRA and 401(k) accounts into what could amount to a U.S. Treasury debt-backed government annuity.
CNBC's Rick Santelli broadcast the rumor the same day from the trading floor during CNBC's "Power Lunch" show.
Spokesmen from both the U.S. Treasury and Department of Labor confirmed to WND that the federal agencies about to enter a pre-regulation public comment phase on the proposed rule change.
(Story continues below)
But the agencies are getting serious pushback from the mutual fund industry, objecting to what some financial planners see as a government attempt to divert hundreds of billions of dollars of private retirement accounts into federal government debt, regardless whether the investment in Treasury bonds is in the best interest of the retirement-oriented investor.
On the Department of Labor website, the transcript of a Dec. 9 webchat with Borzi confirms the Employee Benefits Security Administration is about to issue a Request for Information on how annuity lifetime options should be structured into a wide range of defined contribution retirement plans, including 401(k)s.
Under ERISA, the Department of Labor regulates approximately 700,000 private pension plans, with approximately $4.7 trillion in assets.
"Lifetime Income Options," code words for annuities, are also listed in the Department of Labor's regulatory agenda for the Employee Benefits Security Administration, issued Dec. 7 and filed in the Federal Register.
The government's argument is that IRA and 401(k) investors lost principal in the stock market when the Dow Jones Industrial Average plummeted from a closing of 14,164.53 on Oct. 9, 2007, to 6,547.05 on March 9, 2009.
For instance, Fidelity Investments reported the average fund balance on the approximately 11 million accounts Fidelity manages dropped 31 percent to $47,500 at the end of March, from $69,200 at the end of 2007.
With the stock market rally since March, Fidelity further reports 401(k) account balances increased 128 percent by the end of the third quarter 2009, to an average of $60,700, from the low at the end of the first quarter 2009 of $47,500.
While U.S. Treasury bonds have had historically lower yields than equity returns, government proponents of the idea argue Treasury bonds are safer, guaranteed by the federal government to pay principal and interest regardless of market conditions.
Furthermore, annuities as life insurance contracts have a unique investment advantage of being able to pay a specified lifetime income, regardless how long the annuitant lives.
The Investment Company Institute, a national trade organization representing the mutual fund industry, argues that the distinction of the Obama administration proposal would be to require annuities funded with Treasuries to be embedded within IRAs and 401(k) programs, using the fear of loss as a reason to demand retirement investors own Treasuries.
Right now, IRA holders and investors in 401(k) plans are free to invest in Treasury bonds, if they choose.
Also, annuities are a popular settlement option for IRAs and 401(k) plans that transition from the accumulation phase to the payout phase.
Annuities are an attractive payout instrument, because annuities offer the part of lifetime income and only a portion of each payout installment is considered taxable as return of investment principal.
Interest or investment earnings in annuities accumulate income tax-deferred until the annuitant takes out money, either in an unscheduled withdrawal, or in a payout option extending over a specified number of years in retirement, or for the lifetime of the annuitant.
The unusual nature of the Obama administration's proposal would be to place as an investment a tax-deferred instrument like an annuity within a tax-deferred retirement program. Investment advisers typically use annuities as an investment option for after-tax dollars, not as a required investment option within a retirement program like an IRA or 401(k) that is already income-tax deferred.
A survey conducted by the Investment Company Institute showed more than 70 percent of all households disagreed with the idea of requiring retirees to buy annuities with a portion of their assets, whether the annuity is offered by an insurance company or by the government.
Moreover, 96 percent of households in the survey responded that retirees rejected the idea that the government should mandate turning IRA or 401(k) assets into annuities, asserting instead that retirees should make their own decisions about managing retirement assets and income.
The Investment Company Institute member companies manage some $11.62 trillion in mutual fund assets for some 90 million mutual fund shareholders, including retirement-oriented investors participating in defined contribution plans such as employer-sponsored 401(k) accounts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Related offers:
"AMERICA FOR SALE: Fighting the New World Order, Surviving a Global Depression, and Preserving USA Sovereignty."
Get "Taking America Back," Joseph Farah's manifesto for sovereignty, self-reliance and moral renewal
Stop the bailout! Magnetic bumper sticker
Surviving economic meltdown in the age of Obama
Subscribe to Jerome Corsi's new weekly economic newsletter, Red Alert, for one year and, for a limited time get "The Obama Nation" free. (This offer applies only to annual subscriptions for $99.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Previous stories:
China warns Obama deficit spending must stop
Economist warns of president's financial 'bubble'
Ex-Treasury official: Dump dollar
Fed begins move that could sink dollar
Economist charges Obama 'manipulating' stock market
Fed says economy even worse than thought
Unstimulated! Dow plunges 300
Trillions? Get ready for quadrillion
Stimulus still can't help Wall Street
Stocks reject Obama's plans
Fed borrowing could reach $4 trillion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WND MONEY
Obama to meddle with your retirement account?
Administration considers forcing investors into Treasury debt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: January 14, 2010
12:30 am Eastern
By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2010 WorldNetDaily
President Obama
The Obama administration appears to have come up with a novel way of financing trillion-dollar budget deficits – demanding IRA and 401(k) holders buy trillions of dollars in Treasury bonds.
With the Treasury needing this year to see another $1 trillion in debt to finance the anticipated federal budget deficit, and the Federal Reserve about to discontinue its 2009 program of buying Treasury bonds for the Fed's asset portfolio, the Obama administration is scrambling to find ways to sell government debt without having to raise interest rates.
Bloomberg reported Friday that Assistant Labor Secretary Phyllis C. Borzi and Deputy Assistant Treasury Mark Iwry are planning to stage a public comment period before implementing regulations that would require private investors to structure IRA and 401(k) accounts into what could amount to a U.S. Treasury debt-backed government annuity.
CNBC's Rick Santelli broadcast the rumor the same day from the trading floor during CNBC's "Power Lunch" show.
Spokesmen from both the U.S. Treasury and Department of Labor confirmed to WND that the federal agencies about to enter a pre-regulation public comment phase on the proposed rule change.
(Story continues below)
But the agencies are getting serious pushback from the mutual fund industry, objecting to what some financial planners see as a government attempt to divert hundreds of billions of dollars of private retirement accounts into federal government debt, regardless whether the investment in Treasury bonds is in the best interest of the retirement-oriented investor.
On the Department of Labor website, the transcript of a Dec. 9 webchat with Borzi confirms the Employee Benefits Security Administration is about to issue a Request for Information on how annuity lifetime options should be structured into a wide range of defined contribution retirement plans, including 401(k)s.
Under ERISA, the Department of Labor regulates approximately 700,000 private pension plans, with approximately $4.7 trillion in assets.
"Lifetime Income Options," code words for annuities, are also listed in the Department of Labor's regulatory agenda for the Employee Benefits Security Administration, issued Dec. 7 and filed in the Federal Register.
The government's argument is that IRA and 401(k) investors lost principal in the stock market when the Dow Jones Industrial Average plummeted from a closing of 14,164.53 on Oct. 9, 2007, to 6,547.05 on March 9, 2009.
For instance, Fidelity Investments reported the average fund balance on the approximately 11 million accounts Fidelity manages dropped 31 percent to $47,500 at the end of March, from $69,200 at the end of 2007.
With the stock market rally since March, Fidelity further reports 401(k) account balances increased 128 percent by the end of the third quarter 2009, to an average of $60,700, from the low at the end of the first quarter 2009 of $47,500.
While U.S. Treasury bonds have had historically lower yields than equity returns, government proponents of the idea argue Treasury bonds are safer, guaranteed by the federal government to pay principal and interest regardless of market conditions.
Furthermore, annuities as life insurance contracts have a unique investment advantage of being able to pay a specified lifetime income, regardless how long the annuitant lives.
The Investment Company Institute, a national trade organization representing the mutual fund industry, argues that the distinction of the Obama administration proposal would be to require annuities funded with Treasuries to be embedded within IRAs and 401(k) programs, using the fear of loss as a reason to demand retirement investors own Treasuries.
Right now, IRA holders and investors in 401(k) plans are free to invest in Treasury bonds, if they choose.
Also, annuities are a popular settlement option for IRAs and 401(k) plans that transition from the accumulation phase to the payout phase.
Annuities are an attractive payout instrument, because annuities offer the part of lifetime income and only a portion of each payout installment is considered taxable as return of investment principal.
Interest or investment earnings in annuities accumulate income tax-deferred until the annuitant takes out money, either in an unscheduled withdrawal, or in a payout option extending over a specified number of years in retirement, or for the lifetime of the annuitant.
The unusual nature of the Obama administration's proposal would be to place as an investment a tax-deferred instrument like an annuity within a tax-deferred retirement program. Investment advisers typically use annuities as an investment option for after-tax dollars, not as a required investment option within a retirement program like an IRA or 401(k) that is already income-tax deferred.
A survey conducted by the Investment Company Institute showed more than 70 percent of all households disagreed with the idea of requiring retirees to buy annuities with a portion of their assets, whether the annuity is offered by an insurance company or by the government.
Moreover, 96 percent of households in the survey responded that retirees rejected the idea that the government should mandate turning IRA or 401(k) assets into annuities, asserting instead that retirees should make their own decisions about managing retirement assets and income.
The Investment Company Institute member companies manage some $11.62 trillion in mutual fund assets for some 90 million mutual fund shareholders, including retirement-oriented investors participating in defined contribution plans such as employer-sponsored 401(k) accounts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Related offers:
"AMERICA FOR SALE: Fighting the New World Order, Surviving a Global Depression, and Preserving USA Sovereignty."
Get "Taking America Back," Joseph Farah's manifesto for sovereignty, self-reliance and moral renewal
Stop the bailout! Magnetic bumper sticker
Surviving economic meltdown in the age of Obama
Subscribe to Jerome Corsi's new weekly economic newsletter, Red Alert, for one year and, for a limited time get "The Obama Nation" free. (This offer applies only to annual subscriptions for $99.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Previous stories:
China warns Obama deficit spending must stop
Economist warns of president's financial 'bubble'
Ex-Treasury official: Dump dollar
Fed begins move that could sink dollar
Economist charges Obama 'manipulating' stock market
Fed says economy even worse than thought
Unstimulated! Dow plunges 300
Trillions? Get ready for quadrillion
Stimulus still can't help Wall Street
Stocks reject Obama's plans
Fed borrowing could reach $4 trillion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PEACE! This is the first day of the rest of your life.
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
0
Comments
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>who voted for this guy? I sure didn't!! >>
Vote? LOFL!
If voting could actually change the place to more reflect the spirit of the Constitution, voting would be declared illegal.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Retirement and Security have nothing to do with it.
I knew it would happen.
Anyone who votes to re-elect Obama needs a checkup from the neckup.
The first time in history someone has been reincarnated before they died. Jimmy Carter>>>Obama.
But getting at people's PMs -- not easy at all.
You lose your guns, you lose your freedom.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Why do you think they want your guns? lol
You lose your guns, you lose your freedom. >>
Agree. That's why the founding fathers put the second amendment in the Bill of Rights.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
--Severian the Lame
Wikipedia Link
Then only good to come out of his election is his actions will greatly accelerate the price move upwards in precious metals which I own a fair amount of, the way he's attacking investments and IRA's many people may just decide to take the plunge and invest in something the government can't track.
Maybe we should start off with basic math skills. A 100% increase means a number has doubled. A 128% increase from a base of $47,500 yields a new total of $108,300. Moving from $47,500 to $60,700 is a 28% increase. Stated another way, 128% of $47,500 equals roughly $60,700 (actually $60,800).
It's probably the same people with the same idea pushing the idea to President Obama. It really doesn't matter who is in office.
roadrunner
<< <i>With the stock market rally since March, Fidelity further reports 401(k) account balances increased 128 percent by the end of the third quarter 2009, to an average of $60,700, from the low at the end of the first quarter 2009 of $47,500.
Maybe we should start off with basic math skills. A 100% increase means a number has doubled. A 128% increase from a base of $47,500 yields a new total of $108,300. Moving from $47,500 to $60,700 is a 28% increase. Stated another way, 128% of $47,500 equals roughly $60,700 (actually $60,800). >>
The statement is that since March, account balances increased 128%. Basically, accounts have increased 128% from the low in March.
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Slow down people. I believe in democracy as well as personal and financial freedom. Perhaps you might want to read the Wikipedia entry about the article's author before you form an opinion about the article posted in this thread.
Wikipedia Link >>
What he said.....
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>
<< <i>Slow down people. I believe in democracy as well as personal and financial freedom. Perhaps you might want to read the Wikipedia entry about the article's author before you form an opinion about the article posted in this thread.
Wikipedia Link >>
What he said..... >>
Agreed
No, using the dollar values they provided, accounts have increased 28% since the low in March. 28% of $47,500 is $13,300. $47,500 + $13,300 = $60,800.
<< <i>I stopped reading at WND. >>
Why?
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>
<< <i>Slow down people. I believe in democracy as well as personal and financial freedom. Perhaps you might want to read the Wikipedia entry about the article's author before you form an opinion about the article posted in this thread.
Wikipedia Link >>
What he said..... >>
OK I agree this guy may be alittle out there, no question. But I have learned in life that where you see smoke, there's fire. With this group we have in Washington today this line of thinking is right on the mark for them.
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>
<< <i>I stopped reading at WND. >>
Why? >>
Let's just call WND less than unbiased and leave it at that.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>You lose your guns, you lose your freedom. >>
I guess I shouldn't be laughing... it's sad that this is the attitude so many Americans have. Guns are always the answer. Sorry, OT. Move along and go stroke your precious, precious guns.
Political correct BS is what's killing the spirit of this county! God, guns, & gold!
That's how I roll!
<< <i>The statement is that since March, account balances increased 128%. Basically, accounts have increased 128% from the low in March.
No, using the dollar values they provided, accounts have increased 28% since the low in March. 28% of $47,500 is $13,300. $47,500 + $13,300 = $60,800. >>
My mistake, you're correct.
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
IMPORTANT ....... anyone here from the New England state Mass. BROWN on Tuesday!
Precious metals offer some safe havens.