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Acetone cleaning
coffeyce
Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭
Good morning,
I have a question. I have seen alot of people mention acetone for cleaning. How do you use it, with a toothbrush? dip it? and how do you get the acetone off? water?
Thanks
Chris
I have a question. I have seen alot of people mention acetone for cleaning. How do you use it, with a toothbrush? dip it? and how do you get the acetone off? water?
Thanks
Chris
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In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
No need to dip and swirl for more than 10 seconds, generally. But I have heard of guys dipping for hours.
Lance.
I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
I have had mixed success with acetone and copper. I won't use acetone on any copper that I thiink has more value than a couple of dollars. I use NCS for copper.
I have had zero success with the quick dip method. My experence is that careful inspection under good light and good magnification will reveal that the quick dip method leaves a lot of pvc on the surface.
I have had the most success with the following:
Work under a microscope 7x to 10x power. Acetone melts velvet - I use a soft white cotton cloth on the stage.
1 - soak the coin for a while (15 minutes)
2 - use cotton swabs with no glue holding the cotton (these can be found from electronic supply houses) - should have a wood stick. NO PLASTIC.
3 - KEEP THE SWAB WET WITH ACETONE AT ALL TIMES. Very gently swab the coin surface.
4 - work the coin over until you are happy with the appearance. Be gentle don't leave hairlines.
edited to add 4.5 - repeat soak and scub as needed. Some coins have enough pvc that several soakings are required.
5 - change the swab as often as you need to. Just keep an eye on the color of the swab - green or brown means toss it and get a new one.
6 - setup a hair dryer and warm up the coin. Rinse the warm coin in clean acetone. holding the edge of the coin in your fingers put the wet coin in front of the hair drier. The acetone will evaportate.
7 - repeat the clean rinse on a warm coin 3 times.
The hair drier keeps the coin warm. The reason is that the evaporation of the acetone will cool the coin's surface. You don't want the coin's surface to drop below the dew point and condence water on the surface (that will leave water spots).
I have experimented with deionized water rinses and distilled water rinses, tap water rinses. I don't see any use for them.
Acetone will evaportate cleanly. There will be no acetone left on the coin after evaporation. However, if the acetone is contaminated, their may be other contaminates on the surface after the evaporation evaporates. Will water remove those contaminates? It depends on what the contaminates are. Use reagent grade acetone and you won't have to worry about it. This acetone (reagent grade) can be purchased at chemical supply houses.
The risk of a water rinse (or condensation) is that the water you have won't be any more pure than the acetone you have. Also, you have to dry the water off and the surface tension of water will allow it to hid in the protected areas of the coins. I don't like water for coins.
I have had excellent results with silver, gold and clad. I have had mixed results with copper. I try to avoid circulated coins with other "gunk" on the surface. If "gunk" comes off, the toning under the gunk will be different than the rest of the coin - ugly result.
pvc will destroy a coin and I always remove it when I find it, but sometimes the area under the pvc is toned differently than the rest of the coin. Sometimes pvc hids corrosion that has already started. PVC is a scourge.
I gauge "success" by how many coins that I can have graded by PCGS (only PCGS), after pvc removal. The biggest risk with my method is that if you scrub with a swab you WILL scratch the coin. Practice.
To test just how sensative a coin might be to scrubbing, I got a pvc slimed Kurgerand and scrubbed it longer and harder than needed. This was just to see if I would damage the surface. I didn't see any damage under the microscope. I sent the conserved coin to PCGS, they sent it back as MS66.
This coupled with my success on something around 120 or so silver, clad and a few more gold coins has lead me to stick with this method.
Acetone - flammable! Caution.
Acetone - unhealthy - minimize exposure - work in well ventalated areas.
Acetone - soluable in water - minimize exposure to skin.
Acetone - keep out of reach of children and pets. Evaporates quickly, keep the lid on the stuff.
Use only in a well ventilated location, acetone is highly flammable and in sufficient concentrations destroys cell walls (think liver rot, not jail cell).
Will disolve all but the hardest plastics so common Q-tips, tooth brushes and latex gloves, etc, are out. I've had good luck with the hard blue plastic coin tongs (forceps) sold at most coin supplies outlets but mostly I use two wooden tongue depressors (say "ah") nailed or bolted (small bolt) to a 1/2 inch length of wooden dowel (also useful to pull toast out of old-fashioned toasters) (soak the depressors in acetone first to remove wood oils). Google "wooden Q-tips", they seem OK.
Will quickly remove "fog" (haze) from modern clad coins without effecting underlying toning. This little-known fact has saved PCGS a lot of money over the years.
Removing PVC crud takes a long soak: if the crud has eaten into the surface of the coin, you'll be left with a pitted coin, 'tis pity 'tis true.
Most of us use a series of acetone dips to wash away or at least dilute any residua disolved in the original acetone soak, then simply air-dry your coin. If you want to know if a given jar of acetone (no rubber seal on the lid or that will disolve, small or shallow glass covered with AL foil crimped tightly over the glass and held in place with stout rubber bands works pretty well), place a drop on a mirror and see if it spots when dry (this test takes about 5 seconds).
Traces of organics on a coin's pristine surface (from fingerprints, microscopic droplets in our breath, etc) can create delayed havoc. ANACS used to advise a routine acetone dip of all silver and clad coins being submitted to them, maybe they still do?
Warning: acetone can turn copper a violent pink so consult a copper coin expert and ask about other organic solvents. This applies to modern clad coins: the raw copper in the outer rim (from the interior core of solid copper) can turn neon with an acetone soak. I think that color moderates with time back to a more normal copper color but wouldn't bet on it.
You can buy USP pure acetone at most drug stores (or at least order it), $5-10 for a pint. I've found bulk acetone in gallon tins from Home Depot and the like (maybe $15? been a while since I've had to buy one) is OK but do a mirror test to make sure.
Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
<< <i>I will never,never, ever knowingly purchase a coin that has been dipped.
Do you equate conservation with dipping?
Do you believe PVC should be removed from coins?
Not trying to be contentious, but I'm curious about your perspective.
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
<< <i>I will never,never, ever knowingly purchase a coin that has been dipped.
1) Acetone isn't dipping. Acetone will not remove toning or a coin's natural skin. It will remove PVC residue, tape or glue residue and mild haze caused by holders on proof coins.
2) If a coin is dipped properly you'll have no way of knowing.
Sometimes gentle swabbing with a q-tip and a food oil (I really do like working with olive oil) can lift harmless "dirt".
I also use MS70 (there are numerous threads on this site dealing with MS70, use the search feature) when time is limited and I think MS70 will work.
The problem is "dirt", like PVC gunk, can hide an erosive process at the coin's surface beneath that dirt. There are few things uglier than a brightly cleaned coin with pits, erosion and residual corrosion, one of several good reasons to never "clean" a classic coin unless you know exactly what you're doing from years of experience.
A pro can spend an hour or two with toothpicks and olive oil gradually chipping away at some "dirt", gently doing what he can to improve the coin and no more.
A good plan is to practice and practice and practice on inexpensive coins before you even think of tackling a good one. Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
Rose thorns work very well in this regard. They are sharp enough to get into very tiny areas but soft enough that if you take care they will not scratch the coin.
Much better in my experience then a toothpick.
Regarding Acetone, many coins have been stored in the soft PVC flips and have PVC residue on them. I have seen several coins, holdered with the PVC haze turning in the holder. If a coin has any PVC residue on it and is not properly conserved with acetone being the best material to use, the coin in time will be damaged.
When using a Q tip or something similar you ROLL the Q tip soaked in acetone on the coin, DO NOT RUB THE COIN with the Q tip to avoid creating fine hairlines. Roll it with your fingers across the surface or just let the coin soak in acetone even overnight. I have had some obnoxious tape/dirt that it took 2 or 3 overnight soakings to remove. But the results are very good, the coin is not damaged and you have removed the PVC threat as well as other potentially corrosive dirts etc. from the coin, properly conserving it.
Be sure and practice on some wheat cents or 90% to learn and practice the techniques. It takes time and practice like anything else to learn how to carefully conserve a coin. Conserving properly is a good thing, cleaning and removing the atoms off the surface of a coin is not.
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
WS
<< <i>A pro can spend an hour or two with toothpicks and olive oil gradually chipping away at some "dirt", gently doing what he can to improve the coin and no more.
Rose thorns work very well in this regard. They are sharp enough to get into very tiny areas but soft enough that if you take care they will not scratch the coin. >>
After soaking in acetone to soften the dirt, why not use compressed air to blast the dirt off the coin? Obviously you'd have to be careful not to send your smaller coins flying through the air when using compressed air.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Just know that unless the compressed air is bone dry, it will spit miosture and as previously pointed out chill the coin which could cause condensation and thus more moisture. Picky, picky, I know, but. . .
And, know that fresh rose thorns can carry Sporotrichosis spores, in which case if you accidently stick yourself you can wind up in a few weeks with a nasty fungal skin infection that takes many weeks to heal.
Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
<< <i>
<< <i>I will never,never, ever knowingly purchase a coin that has been dipped.
Do you equate conservation with dipping?
Do you believe PVC should be removed from coins?
Not trying to be contentious, but I'm curious about your perspective. >>
Yes ,I do equate conservation with dipping.I will never buy a coin with PVC on it.
<< <i>
<< <i>I will never,never, ever knowingly purchase a coin that has been dipped.
1) Acetone isn't dipping. Acetone will not remove toning or a coin's natural skin. It will remove PVC residue, tape or glue residue and mild haze caused by holders on proof coins.
2) If a coin is dipped properly you'll have no way of knowing. >>
I didn't know that. In the very first coins that I collected (and sold as I began to upgrade).I was enlightened to the ugly fact that most of my coins were dipped.So I quickly educated myself accordingly and corrected all future purchases.I thought that any type of cleaning is bad.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I will never,never, ever knowingly purchase a coin that has been dipped.
Do you equate conservation with dipping?
Do you believe PVC should be removed from coins?
Not trying to be contentious, but I'm curious about your perspective. >>
Yes ,I do equate conservation with dipping.I will never buy a coin with PVC on it. >>
My guess is, that you already have and don't know it. PVC has a tendency to grow over time.
Here is what I use:
This allows for quick bursts of acetone under some pressure to help remove oils and contaminants. I will also wet a Q-Tip and roll it around, not scrub, to loosen the debris. The squirt bottle also allows me to do multiple rinses with clean acetone with minimal acetone and it's always fresh.
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
<< <i>I gather the plastic used for the squirt bottle is impervious to acetone? Rob >>
Yep. same bottles as used when working with acetone in organic testing labs. And I use HPLC grade acetone which is a very clean variety.
<< <i>Rose thorns and compressed air, I love it, proven techniques both.
Just know that unless the compressed air is bone dry, it will spit miosture and as previously pointed out chill the coin which could cause condensation and thus more moisture. Picky, picky, I know, but. . .
And, know that fresh rose thorns can carry Sporotrichosis spores, in which case if you accidently stick yourself you can wind up in a few weeks with a nasty fungal skin infection that takes many weeks to heal.
Rob >>
WOW! Coin preservation can be hazardous!
...Fire Hazard...This could be a HAZMAT situation unless done right!
Gardnerville, NV
=========================
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<< <i>I didn't know that. In the very first coins that I collected (and sold as I began to upgrade).I was enlightened to the ugly fact that most of my coins were dipped.So I quickly educated myself accordingly and corrected all future purchases.I thought that any type of cleaning is bad. >>
There is a lot of controversy regarding dipping - "dipping" being defined as submerging a coin into a corrosive chemical substance or applying that substance to a coin with the aim of improving its appearance by removing toning, debris, haze or other contaminants - but I happen to be of the opinion that a judicious dip executed properly on a coin that is a good candidate can actually result in a far more desirable coin.
There are inherent problems with dipping. Any dip is going to remove some amount of metal from a coin. This is why purists dismiss it out of hand as a sin against numismatics as they believe that an original surface is always preferable to a non original surface even if it is butt ugly. Another problem with dipping is that it is incredible easy to screw it up and permanently negatively effect the coin, even as far as destroying it.
Here are what I consider to be the biggest problems with dipping:
1) People dip the wrong coins. A dip can only turn out well if the coin you choose to dip is a good candidate. Personally, I will only dip mint state silver or gold. I will not dip copper (i have never once had a good result fooling around with copper) and I NEVER dip circulated coins. Another mistake people make is dipping coins that have been dipped too many times before, which results in a washed out looking coin with impaired luster. In order to be a good candidate for dipping (IMO) a coin must be silver or gold, uncirculated and have plenty or luster remaining. Coins that do not meet these criteria will not dip well.
2) People dip coins for far too long. Most of the time when I dip a coin it is in the solution for no more than three seconds. The ones with very intense problem toning might get five seconds. I've talked to people that told me they have dipped coins for up to a minute! That is ridiculous and a sure recipe for destruction. A secondary point under this heading is that it is better to dip a coin twice than to leave it in the dip too long. When you dip a coin for too long the untoned areas are exposed directly to the dip for far too long which can result in damage to those areas. When you are done dipping you might find that the untoned areas retained less luster than the areas that were toned. This is because the surfaces under the toning were exposed directly to the dip for less time. It's a better idea to dip very quickly (2-3 seconds), immediately rinse the coin removing excess dip and any dissolved toning/crud and dip again if necessary. I find that this reduces the amount of time the nice portions of the surfaces are exposed to the chemicals.
3) People dip coins that just don't need it! Some people seem to think that all toning is bad or that blast white silver coins are always preferable to all others. You have to know when to leave well enough alone. There are far more coins out there that can only be injured by dipping than ones that can be improved, IMO. The talent lies in knowing the difference.
<< <i>I find it surprising how often it must be restated that acetone cleaning is not 'dipping'. Cheers, RickO >>
I acknowledge your statement,and am now enlightened to your point.Thanks for your input.
(Use common safety sense when using the stuff)
I use small half pint kerr mason jars. I will fill it with just enough acetone to cover the coin once it is in the jar. I will carefully place the coin in the the acetone. I will let is sit for up to a minute. I give it a swish and then rinse with tap water. ( I can hear the teeth grinding from those that disagree )
Why tap water? First, whatever was on the coin, and is now in the acetone, I don't want it on my coin anymore and if I let the acetone evaporate it will put some of what I just took off, back on the coin. Second, it's cheap (vs denatured or distilled) and right there.
!!!!!BEWARE!!!!! Quickly shake off excess acetone back into the jar, then rinse well. You want to minimize how much you get into your drain. Keep the water running for several seconds after you are done rinsing to make sure the excess acetone that made into the drain is heavily diluted. It potentially could ruin your drain. Then place on your soft absorbent European extinct animal pelt... aka (paper towel, once again, I hear the teeth grinding) pat dry, once or twice. DO NOT rub.
If you have a stubborn spot, rolling an acetone soaked que tip (paper not plastic) while at the soaking stage, can prove quite helpful. Be sure to put it back in the acetone again once more before rinsing.
Experiment with coins you don't give a flying hoot about before bath your beloved sharpie or pvc laden coin. Try different things so you know what to expect if you accidentally.. say... rub the coin with a que tip rather than roll. I also recommend finding the reastyest coin you can and giving it an acetone bath just to see what happens. One thing to watch out for, if the coin is toned and you do remove some dirt or grime, you potentially expose the un-toned area and this can really ruin the look.
I remember the first time I used acetone on a coin. I was expecting earth shattering results. Boy, was I let down. Again, it is good for pvc, grease, tape goo and Sharpie. Clean lots of junky coins to get the curiosity out of your system, then you will find, you will only use it when necessary.
Echoing several others, this is not a "dip" and IMO acetone-ing is a rather benign process for the coin. Dipping on the other hand... can destroy a coin, literally in the blink of an eye.
--- Jack Handy
Positive BST transactions with members - Tander123, Twincam, UtahCoin, ianrussell
<< <i>I would highly recommend not taking any advise about acetone on this board. A newb playing with acetone, is like Jeffery Dahmer playing with ken. >>
Yeah, because acetone is such an unknown chemical. You do realize that most nail polish remover is 90+% acetone, right? Almost every woman in the nation is familiar with acetone. And why not take information from a group that is familiar with it and can lend good advice? Is there a better place to gain knowledge?
<< <i>
<< <i>I would highly recommend not taking any advise about acetone on this board. A newb playing with acetone, is like Jeffery Dahmer playing with ken. >>
Yeah, because acetone is such an unknown chemical. You do realize that most nail polish remover is 90+% acetone, right? Almost every woman in the nation is familiar with acetone. And why not take information from a group that is familiar with it and can lend good advice? Is there a better place to gain knowledge? >>
Agree. A lot of forum members have many years of practical experience with acetone. As long as you read the warning label on the container and follow the recommended safety precautions, you should be all right.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.