Are the AGE's and ASE's coins?
nankraut
Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭
I've been confused ever since these things were struck. I always thought that a "coin" was something you could spend (i.e., legal tender) to buy something. 
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-Paul
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I would call them coins but then there's no other widely used term that applies. They
are less like tokens or medals than coins. They are less like coins than an 1804 dollar
though these are also NCLT.
If you want to be specific among collectors most of us are familiar with bullion coin, ASE,
AGE, or NCLT. But even a stickler for terminology isn't far off calling them coins.
A coin is a piece of hard material that is standardized in weight, it is produced in large quantities in order to facilitate exchange, and primarily and above all has the mark of the authority that produces it.
Coins are usually metal or a metallic material and sometimes made of synthetic materials, usually in the shape of a disc, and most often issued by a government. Coins are used as a form of money in transactions of various kinds, from the everyday circulation coins to the storage of large numbers of bullion coins. In the present day, coins and banknotes make up the cash forms of all modern money systems. Coins made for paying bills and (general monetized use) are usually used for lower-valued units, and banknotes for the higher values; also, in most money systems, the highest value coin made for circulation is worth less than the lowest-value note. The face value of circulation coins is usually higher than the gross value of the metal used in making them, but this is not generally the case with historical circulation coins made of precious metals.
Exceptions to the rule of coin face-value being higher than content value, also occur for some "bullion coins" made of silver or gold (and, rarely, other metals, such as platinum or palladium), intended for collectors or investors in precious metals. Examples of modern gold collector/investor coins include the American Gold Eagle minted by the United States, the Canadian Gold Maple Leaf minted by Canada, and the Krugerrand, minted by South Africa. The American Gold Eagle has a face value of US$50, and the Canadian Gold Maple Leaf coins also have nominal (purely symbolic) face values (e.g., C$50 for 1 oz.); but the Krugerrand does not.
<< <i>Yes, but some here refuse to accept that. --Jerry >>
On the contrary, No, they aren't but some here refuse to accept that. --Jim
They are called NCLT, Non-Circulating Legal Tender.
Actually, they are called American Eagle Bullion Coins.
No, they aren't but some here refuse to accept that. --Jim
I guess Bust Halves are no longer coins because they don't circulate either.
I knew it would happen.
The name is LEE!
I would pay no more for a ms70 slab than a raw one out of the tube.
I will pay double face value for them any time!
<< <i>Not a matter of circulation; it's matter of whether or not they were meant to circulate. >>
Sounds rather arbitrary...you won't find "meant to circulate" in any definition in a dictionary. But even so, NCLT is meant to "circulate". It doesn't circulate at face value but its purpose in life is to allow the precios metals to be traded (circulated) without assay. Thus, I can sell silver, gold or platinum eagles on the BST and everyone knows they are real and have a verified weight and purity, thanks to the authority of the US govt.
So do you have any other definitions you want to use to try to exclude NCLT from coins? Maybe you should just call them "coins you don't collect" kindo like I do morgan dollars?
--Jerry
<< <i>Not a matter of circulation; it's matter of whether or not they were meant to circulate. >>
Patterns were never intended for circulation either. I guess we better stop calling them pattern COINS.
<< <i>
<< <i>Not a matter of circulation; it's matter of whether or not they were meant to circulate. >>
Sounds rather arbitrary...you won't find "meant to circulate" in any definition in a dictionary. But even so, NCLT is meant to "circulate". It doesn't circulate at face value but its purpose in life is to allow the precios metals to be traded (circulated) without assay. Thus, I can sell silver, gold or platinum eagles on the BST and everyone knows they are real and have a verified weight and purity, thanks to the authority of the US govt.
So do you have any other definitions you want to use to try to exclude NCLT from coins? Maybe you should just call them "coins you don't collect" kindo like I do morgan dollars?
--Jerry >>
I don't try to exclude NCLT from coins...the definition of coin--a representation of a particular value usually produced by government authority for the express purpose of enabling daily commerce--does that for me.
Even the term that you used--NON circulating legal tender--states that they aren't meant for circulation. The fact that you can sell them without assay doesn't have anything to do with circulation. I can sell a chicken without anyone questioning whether or not it is real--it can then be resold--that doesn't mean that it is a coin. Nor does it mean that its original egg was created to facilitate daily commerce.
By the way, I DO own several ASE's. They just aren't part of my COIN collection.
<< <i>
Patterns were never intended for circulation either. I guess we better stop calling them pattern COINS. >>
You're correct. They shouldn't be called coins. They AREN'T coins. They are representations of prospective coins.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Not a matter of circulation; it's matter of whether or not they were meant to circulate. >>
Sounds rather arbitrary...you won't find "meant to circulate" in any definition in a dictionary. But even so, NCLT is meant to "circulate". It doesn't circulate at face value but its purpose in life is to allow the precios metals to be traded (circulated) without assay. Thus, I can sell silver, gold or platinum eagles on the BST and everyone knows they are real and have a verified weight and purity, thanks to the authority of the US govt.
So do you have any other definitions you want to use to try to exclude NCLT from coins? Maybe you should just call them "coins you don't collect" kindo like I do morgan dollars?
--Jerry >>
I don't try to exclude NCLT from coins...the definition of coin--a representation of a particular value usually produced by government authority for the express purpose of enabling daily commerce--does that for me.
Even the term that you used--NON circulating legal tender--states that they aren't meant for circulation. The fact that you can sell them without assay doesn't have anything to do with circulation. I can sell a chicken without anyone questioning whether or not it is real--it can then be resold--that doesn't mean that it is a coin. Nor does it mean that its original egg was created to facilitate daily commerce.
By the way, I DO own several ASE's. They just aren't part of my COIN collection.
You have a point that the NCLT term isn't a good choice of words. They don't circulate at face value but they definitely circulate in trade....
--Jerry
Source? Or is that just your opinion of the definition of a coin? Hundreds of millions of Morgan dollars were minted that do not meet your definition. They were not minted for the "express purpose of enabling daily commerce". They were minted for the "express purpose of maintaing current silver metal value". The fact that so many were stockpiled by the government that they ran out of storage space is a testament to that. Could they have been spent? Sure, but so can an ASE. However, they were not minted for that purpose, they were in essence simply the silver "bullion coins" of their time.
That's odd - I can't find that in any of the statutes. Double Eagles weren't really meant to circulate either, even though some of them did.
And Stellas - are they coins?
What about Proof Walking Liberty Halves?
Your standards are arbitrary at best. Just observing, here.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Not a matter of circulation; it's matter of whether or not they were meant to circulate.
That's odd - I can't find that in any of the statutes. Double Eagles weren't really meant to circulate either, even though some of them did.
And Stellas - are they coins?
What about Proof Walking Liberty Halves?
Your standards are arbitrary at best. Just observing, here. >>
Proof coinage is an excellent example. NEVER intended to facilitate commerce, yet perfectly legal to use as money. Definately a coin. His standards seem arbitrary because he doesnt know what hes talking about.