Mark Mcgwire comes clean
bman90278
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bman90278
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<< <i>Just saw that too. It's news, but it's not really news is it? Several years late, but at least he finally admitted what everyone already knew. >>
I think it's news in that he denied the use, whether we "knew" it or not.
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The only thing I do wonder though...if he had made it in to the HOF, would he be coming clean? I guess we will never know. I guess it doesnt matter now either.
I say THANK YOU Mr McGwire! Let the healing begin!
Admit and you have a job. Don't and you can continue to live out of the public eye.
<< <i>Ive always liked McGwire. I hope people back off and give him some respect for coming clean. Yes, everyone suspected but it was only up to him to confirm. Even if it has taken this long, you have to give him his due for publicly admitting it. Maybe this will convince others to come clean too and let the public decide whether to hang these guys or appreciate their decision to come clean.
The only thing I do wonder though...if he had made it in to the HOF, would he be coming clean? I guess we will never know. I guess it doesnt matter now either.
I say THANK YOU Mr McGwire! Let the healing begin! >>
Agreed 100%. It's not like this guy pimped out his four year old daughter or anything- he took steroids, which is something that by some accounts over half the league was doing, and now he's trying to make amends for it. And let's not forget that the incentive in this case was an eight figure paycheck; most the people who've blasted McGwire have done much worse than shoot themselves with drugs, and they've done so with a far smaller incentive.
(also posted in the other Canseco thread)
he decided just put the issue to rest.
Of course not. He only came clean now because he wants to get back into baseball with his fellow fraud LaRussa, and also because he now knows he has no shot at the HOF anyway so he isn't risking anything. He had the chance to come clean years ago and bricked. He kept his gob shut for selfish reasons 1) HOF 2) Players Union. Dude is supposed to be all about helping kids and things like that, so no, no pass. The only thing I give him credit for is he never technically lied...of course that was also for personal gain so he wouldn't be at risk of perjuring himself.
<< <i>Becoming a hitting coach he knew he was going to be hounded everywhere he went by the press so
he decided just put the issue to rest. >>
He saw what happened to Clemens a couple of years ago. Rocket was at our spring training teaching the young pitchers. Lasted a day or two and the press ran him off...
<< <i>When were steroids banned by baseball? >>
Quite some time after they were made illegal without a prescription. We always seem to miss the fact that under-the-counter possession was a felony.
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<< <i>When were steroids banned by baseball? >>
1991
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Keep in mind, his fess up was a message to the AP, he wasn't man enough to face reporters mano a mano and take the tough questions. Releasing a statement ain't gonna cut it.
Forgive him if you wish, but not me...no HOFer for a long, long time, if ever. Actions have consequences.
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However, i do not forgive him as a player and think it should be noted. The interesting thing is that it seems that almost all the dominant players from 1995 - 2000 were on steroids.
<< <i>So, Big Mack comes clean with the mea culpa after 12 years. I'm sure it has nothing to do with his new job as batting coach for the Cards, or the rath of trash he was gonna hear on the road and in St. Louis. And of course the dismal numbers he received for the HOF induction also had nothing to do with his confession. In my book he shouldh've fessed up at the git go and not danced around like he owned the world when he broke the record, all the time knowing he was juicing. His record is forever tainted.
Keep in mind, his fess up was a message to the AP, he wasn't man enough to face reporters mano a mano and take the tough questions. Releasing a statement ain't gonna cut it.
Forgive him if you wish, but not me...no HOFer for a long, long time, if ever. Actions have consequences. >>
Well for starters he's doing a one on one interview with Bob Costas tonight....I would think Mcgwire will make himself accessible for other interviews.
From Tony La Russa:
"His willingness to admit mistakes, express his regret, and explain the circumstances that led him to use steroids add to my respect for him," the manager said.
Most normal, non-perfect human beings will agree, however,
It is a shame, another star unclean, MLB still has no unannounced mandatory testing for ALL, no formal policy from the HOF on PEDs use, record books in turmoil.
Who is truly an absolutely "clean" hitter ?
Anyway, LaRussa said ,
"His willingness to admit mistakes, express his regret, and explain the circumstances that led him to use steroids adds to my respect for him,"
There is no mention of forgiveness,
although some, or a partial forgiveness might be appropriate. He should be respected for finally coming out.
"With all due respect, the problem with your viewpoint (which I realize is shared by many), is that you're willing to give him a walk either way because you (and I use "you" in the general sense) like him or whatever the reason may be"
My viewpoint, which I probably did not express well, was/is,
"It is a shame,.....etc."
He certainly does not deserve a "walk", and his stats must be evaluated differently, he, and others, have added to the difficulty in normalizing or adjusting the numerical achievements of the players from that time span.
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<< <i>
<< <i>When were steroids banned by baseball? >>
Quite some time after they were made illegal without a prescription. We always seem to miss the fact that under-the-counter possession was a felony. >>
Thats the thing that never makes sense, if steroids were illegal, how could baseball not ban them right away?
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<< <i> We always seem to miss the fact that under-the-counter possession was a felony. >>
We don't dismiss it, we simply don't want sports leagues, nor employers acting as law enforcement
In other breaking news SportsCenter is reporting that Andy Reid has overeaten in the past, the Blazer admit it was a mistake drafting Sam Bowie and Danny Devito is not 6' like he claimed
<< <i>Yes, 1991 indeed. I can't understand all of the posts on this board that think they were legal (in MLB) prior to the recent testing. >>
If the Olympics decided to change their drug policy to the honor system what would that be acceptable too?
It seems McGwire first starting using steroids more than 30 years after they were first used by athletes to improve strength and power. If the fans, management, media and players cared so much why did it take another decade for anyone to start saying anything about it?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>When were steroids banned by baseball? >>
Quite some time after they were made illegal without a prescription. We always seem to miss the fact that under-the-counter possession was a felony. >>
Thats the thing that never makes sense, if steroids were illegal, how could baseball not ban them right away? >>
Because they assumed it was common sense. The players association needed it spelled out for them, just in case...
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out regarding Mr. McGwire's HOF chances though if I was a betting man, I don't think he now stands a chance, now that they know for sure that he did in fact take 'roids. On a related note, suppose Pete Rose does get reinstated at some point and becomes HOF-eligible (after the Selig administration of course), do you really think 75% of the voters will just forget all about his betting on baseball? Not likely.
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
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<< <i>
<< <i>Ive always liked McGwire. I hope people back off and give him some respect for coming clean. Yes, everyone suspected but it was only up to him to confirm. Even if it has taken this long, you have to give him his due for publicly admitting it. Maybe this will convince others to come clean too and let the public decide whether to hang these guys or appreciate their decision to come clean.
The only thing I do wonder though...if he had made it in to the HOF, would he be coming clean? I guess we will never know. I guess it doesnt matter now either.
I say THANK YOU Mr McGwire! Let the healing begin! >>
Agreed 100%. It's not like this guy pimped out his four year old daughter or anything- he took steroids, which is something that by some accounts over half the league was doing, and now he's trying to make amends for it. And let's not forget that the incentive in this case was an eight figure paycheck; most the people who've blasted McGwire have done much worse than shoot themselves with drugs, and they've done so with a far smaller incentive. >>
uhhhh .... i agree.
BUT ...... NO HALL OF FAME. NO F'ING WAY
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
After loving life HUGE in 1998, knowing at the time he was up to his keester in HGH and steroids for quite some time as he broke the HR record of Maris he decides to keep his lip zipped for 12 years. Geez, why let the cat out of the bag? Now comes Tony (I was so drunk I fell asleep at the wheel of my truck in Florida) LaRussa who (according to reports) prodded or encouraged Big Mack to fess up. How could this be? Well, could it have something to do with Big Mack now the hitting coach for his former team? And, perhaps Tony told Big Mack that he was in for a serious ration of BS in the next season and better to "come clean".
Well, now Big Mack says he "wish he'd never played in the steroid era, knew what he did was wrong and foolish. Au contraire, Mr. Big Mack also claims that the only reason he took the juice was for health reasons. Big Mack says that the juice had nothing to do with his batting prowess, (although he holds the record for hitting HRs per 10 ABs), that he was "given a gift to hit home runs. Geez Big Mack, imagine if you'd gotten professional help for that "health issue" how many HRs you really could have hit.
Big Mack knew, just like Pete that he was cheating, legal or not, he was cheating. Pete was a liar and couldn't come clean, Big Mack needed an edge and used for 10 years...but I digress, it was of course for "health reasons". Geez Big Mack isn't that why God made doctors? Surely whatever ailment, pain or imagined injury you were trying to assuage could have been treated by the best doctors on this rock, no?
Big Mack's statements are contradictory as you read them. Had it not been for Tony (I'll have another) LaRussa forcing him to admit using juice, I suspect Big Mack would still be silent and living with his cheating.
I say expunge his record and no HOF.
the position that anything illegal is cheating is fair enough. I take it you agree Tim Lincecum, Paul Molitor and Kirby Puckett are as much cheaters as McGwire.
You are right that things don't happen overnight, but why did they have to take decades? Steroids were first developed in the 30s, first used by athletes in the 50s, fairly widespread by the 60s, tested for in the 70s, yet baseball took until when exactly to take a firm position regarding testing?
To dismiss the long-time acceptence of steroids in baseball by everyone including the fans, media, management and players because they weren't well known is somewhat deluded. By the 60s steroids may have been may have been out of the minds of fans and customers, but for most athletes and administrators involved in sports based around strength and power steroids and other illegal drugs were well known and well used: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1082543/1/index.htm
For people involved so close to the sport -- players, owners, commissioners, writers -- why did it take so many years for anyone to stand up to the issue? If those people considered it to be detrimental to the sport they should have demanded more be done about it 10 years before McGwire started using rather than 10 years after. Yet virtually every single one of them -- several thousand people total -- chose not to
McGwire can say whatever he wants, and give whatever reasons he wants, but in my opinion first and foremost he did it for the money...and of course the thrills of breaking records and fan adulation came with it.
<< <i>Bout Time... Think he wants to get in the hall? >>
Like my father once said, you want in one hand, you **** in the other, see which hand gets filled the fastest...
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
<< <i>If you want to ask unanswerable questions like “why did it take so long to…(fill in the blank)”, there are infinite number of thing in life and sports we could ask that about >>
But in this case it is not unanswerable. We all saw heavily muscled athletes with world class abilities to generate power not subjected to drug testing. Some buried their heads in the sand and pretended sports are about health and no athlete would ever do something like that even if offered millions of dollars. Others simply didn't want the sports leagues fighting the war on drugs. Still others actually prefered the higher scoring games. For whatever reason it has only been in the past 10 years that has started to change
<< <i>If you want to play with trivialities, we could argue all day that this guy got more sleep, or ate a big steak or drank a lot of orange juice which put him in a position to perform better than he would have otherwise but in the end, with me, steroids is so far beyond the realm of any other infinite number of things that may have made the player perform marginally better, legal or illegal. It’s at least like having the textbook and crib notes available during an academic test where everyone else has to answer only from memory. >>
No one said anything about sleep or steaks. Steroids obviously work. That is why people take them, but I cannot believe there is a single person in the world who believes that is the only reason they are banned. They are banned because they are unhealthy
Again, it doesn't really matter how many people knew about them decades ago. What matters is who knew about them. Athletes knew about them. Managment knew about them. The media knew about them. None of them were speaking up in favor of drug testing until after McGwire had been using them for several years. The article I cited above was from the 60s, go into the 70s and you can find dozens more like it
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>When were steroids banned by baseball? >>
Quite some time after they were made illegal without a prescription. We always seem to miss the fact that under-the-counter possession was a felony. >>
Thats the thing that never makes sense, if steroids were illegal, how could baseball not ban them right away? >>
Because Donald Fehr was only slightly less powerful than God. That and the owners didn't have any real desire to do it.
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Feller isn't buying that McGwire's performance wasn't helped by steroids.
"I think that's a lot of horse muffins," he said. "If it didn't help him any, what the hell was he taking them for? Of course it helped him."
"Horse muffins" you say? You have to love bitter, 91 year old former players.
Steve
I would like to point at the fact that when its time to come clean and tell the truth you should probably do just that and McGwire's comments are just so idiotic I have to now think he is either delusional or just an idiot.
He stated that he used steriods for 10 years. They only helped him recover from injuries. Well that would put his first year of use as 1992. Wow look at 1992 vs. 1991, his HR total jumps from 22 to 42 in less at bats. Also his first real injured season started in 1993 the year after he started taking steriods.
He stated that the steriods didn't help him hit HR's. Then why did he call and apologize to the Maris family? Why didn't he ever tell anyone in his own family including his wife, kids and parents?
If they only helped him recover from injury then why did he continue to take them in the years he wasn't injured? He stated himself he didn't know why but he continued to do them. It is really hard to believe that a person would continue taking a substance that is A) Illegal and hard to get plus you could go to jail if anyone finds out you are getting it illegally and
He refuses to acknowledge the fact if the only thing it did was help him recover from injury or prevent injury how that still put him at a huge advantage to other players who broke down due to age or injuries and couldn't continue their careers.
How his and others numbers now inflated made it appear that hitting 35 to 45 HRs should be easy for a player to do so that unjuiced players now were out of work or lost starting jobs to these losers.
How these inflated numbers made previous decades worth of stats and the players who aquired them look like minor leaguers compared to their RBI baseball stats. I know writers now have really gone the other way by taking in 2 marginal guys pre-steriod era but if the steriod story hadn't broke those guys would NEVER have gotten in due to the plethora of roided up guys coming onto the ballots in the next 3 to 5 years.
He wants you to think it has been hard on him. Fine it may have been but he is living in denial and can't even admit that it helped him be a better player or it gave him an unfair advantage over guys who didn't take it. And for that he to me is a bigger liar than Bonds right now.