Only one player inducted into the BBHOF...

ziggy29

...and it's Andre Dawson.

Robby Alomar was 8 votes short from what I heard. Blyleven, only five short.

MantleMarisFordBerra

Super happy for The Hawk, always felt he deserved the honor. Maybe next year Bert, Robbie & Barry!

jaxxr

Big Mac was the best baseball player eligible, however, his "morals" ?, are not up to HOF level apparently.

I must wonder, could any voter who cast a vote for Jack Morris, who got over 50% of the votes, not vote for Bert Blyleven ???

jaxxr

"That may be true but one has to seriously wonder if he would have been that good if his "morals" weren't in question"

We shall probably never know with complete certainty, what would have or could have been,

But we do know for certain, what did actually happen,
Mac started out, as rookie, by being the most proficient HR hitter, ever for a player who was qualified as a "rookie", his record setting season still stands, some 30+ years later.
and he finished as best HR hitter ever, no MLB hitter ever, has a better HR frequency.

Connecticoin

WTF -- Blyleven is going to go postal on the writers!

Alomar not in on first ballot? He must have pissed off a lot of baseball writers during his playing days.

markj111

Still no love for Raines, who reached base more times than Gwynn. Also, he led the league in times on base three times to Gwynn's once.

stevek

not pathetic, but semi-pathetic...at least better than Bill Mazeroski.

Another very good ballplayer who had a few excellent seasons now in the Hall which in my opinion should only be relegated to great players. I never heard anyone call Andre Dawson a "great player" although now that he's in the Hall that will change, right?

MCMLVTopps

Re: Alomar...spitting in an umpire's face has consequences. I think he fell short by a handful of votes, perhaps the writers are giving him a "time out" till next year.

Blyleven? I have no clue what happened there.

Big Mac...no fessing up to drugs also has consequences. Now the batting coach for the Cards, his on field interviews will either help him or sink him. Better the truth than BS or silence, just ask Pete Rose.

DaveP01

Another guy who was a compiler of stats gets in the Hall

Whats funny is a player like Albert Belle who put up monster #'s for about 10 years has absolutely no shot to get in but players that put up avg #'s over longer periods of time get in

TomGshotput

Good to see another year of such complete nonsense

interchanges

<< <i>The Hall of Fame is successfully continuing its effort to become the Hall of Lame >>



It's so true anymore.

If anything, do more research and find some old Negro League players, or what about Gil Hodges?

TomGshotput

<< <i>Big Mac...no fessing up to drugs also has consequences >>



You mean like Orlando Cepeda who told people what they wanted to hear after his first drug arrest? Absolutely amazing that standing up for basic human rights and constitutional rights is seen as so objectionable, while telling the right lies earns you a pass

Estil

<< <i>Another guy who was a compiler of stats gets in the Hall

Whats funny is a player like Albert Belle who put up monster #'s for about 10 years has absolutely no shot to get in but players that put up avg #'s over longer periods of time get in >>



Of course he won't get in! In fact, when Mr. Belle played I used to call him the Dennis Rodman of baseball

Estil

<< <i>Re: Alomar...spitting in an umpire's face has consequences. I think he fell short by a handful of votes, perhaps the writers are giving him a "time out" till next year.

Blyleven? I have no clue what happened there.

Big Mac...no fessing up to drugs also has consequences. Now the batting coach for the Cards, his on field interviews will either help him or sink him. Better the truth than BS or silence, just ask Pete Rose. >>



What if the truth is that he only took andro back when it was perfectly legal in MLB and that he only pleaded the 5th at the Congressional hearing to avoid having to break the Code of the Clubhouse and not be put in a position to have to rat out teammates?

As of right now there's no legit evidence that Mac took any PED's that at the time were against MLB's rules, so I'm giving Mac the benefit of the doubt.

DeutscherGeist

Estil,

I am with you to an extent. I think its plausible that McGwire really did not want to rat out anyone while Palmeiro and Sosa simply denied taking PEDs (which were utter lies according to evidence).

I question the credibility of the sources, but some people on this board claim they know someone that knew McGwire throughout his career and can attest to the fact that he took steroids. I am sure McGwire tooks supplements, but as far as PEDs that were illegal...someone could have mistaken supplements for steroids easily....
I have learned to take what people say with a grain of salt, since humans are prone to so many agendas and fits of reality lapses.

If you could see a picture of McGwire when he hit homers as a rookie, he was not really that muscular, yet hit 49 homers in a rookie season. If he did take PEDs that were illegal, it might have kept him off the DL long enough to do his magic. It was not like he was never a prolific home run hitter and excellent defensive first baseman.

lsutigers1973

<< <i>As of right now there's no legit evidence that Mac took any PED's that at the time were against MLB's rules, so I'm giving Mac the benefit of the doubt. >>



Canseco more or less started all of this (referring to the whistle blowing). Nothing Canseco said has been disproven yet and a lot of what he said has been proven. He said he witnessed McGwire using so I am inclined to believe him.

lsutigers1973

Jay McGwire is an admitted steroid user. Which one looks bigger?

otwcards

What gets my goat is hearing some of these sports writers and their voting patterns over the past few years. Several had not voted for Dawson ANY of the previous 8 elections, but voted for him this time. Some of these same folks say that they didn't vote for guys they've voted for in the past, but will vote for them next year or during future balloting.

WTF? How can you vote for a guy one year, not another, then vote for him again? If he's a HOFer, then he's a HOFer and should be every time you vote (unless a voter thinks first ballot is special).

What's even worse is the writers that sent in "no vote" ballots, but said they'll vote for some of these guys in the future. Writers like this, with political or personal agendas have NO BUSINESS being allowed the opportunity to vote!

Sorry, as solid a career as Andre Dawson had, he's not a HOFer. And Tim Raines, in comparison, is more deserving.

If you take a look at Dawson's numbers, they look very solid, but they were compiled over a LONG career. Aside from SB's, Albert Belle did virtually the same thing in almost half the career and Belle WAS dominant during his era.

Connecticoin

I just looked at Dawson's stats. Anyone whining about Jim Rice should shut their yap now.

quincunx

<< <i>I just looked at Dawson's stats. Anyone whining about Jim Rice should shut their yap now. >>



so 2 wrongs make a right? Dawson played Defense and stole bases. Oh wait he did not play the EAST coast

16 Seasons 2089 9058 8225 1249 2452 373 79 382 1451 58 34 670 1423 .298 .352 .502 .854 128 4129 315 64 5 94 77

21 Seasons 2627 10769 9927 1373 2774 503 98 438 1591 314 109 589 1509 .279 .323 .482 .806 119 4787 217 111 24 118 143

DeutscherGeist

Canseco has been proven truthful in most cases and he did state Big Mac used steroids. OK.
However, there were those few occasions where the facts were really mangled. In his first book, he described an event in which he hit a double in a spring training game and said a story that hinged on it (he did not hit a double in that particular spring training game he described according to staticians---His book was not edited all that well, I guess). I don't know if that point was trivial or not. Remember the Clemens case? Canseco stated that Clemens likely did not take steroids. He spoke in contradiction to McNamee as to where Clemens was a particular day.... Was he at Canseco's pool party that day or not? Canseco went back and forth on that one. Was he just having trouble remembering, or just trying to cover up for a friend?

Estil

Frankly, I never thought of Canseco as a very creditable source anyway. I haven't actually read his book but from what I've read about it it just seems too tabloidish for my tastes.

Now Palmiero OTOH, that was a pretty sad case what happened to him. He had far stronger HOF credentials than McGwire but you gotta admit that Palmiero doing that finger waving thing and insisting that he never ever used 'roids and then flunking a 'roids test not long afterwards makes you look pretty darn bad.

WeekendHacker

I've said it here before and I'll say it again - some of the members of the BBWAA are idiots when it comes to the HOF voting. It's as if they've never even seen some of the candidates on the ballot. They have the honor and privilege of voting for players for a museum that has no affiliation with either the BBWAA or MLB - they are all separate entities. Yet, they consistently maliciously and carelessly turn in ballots that have me scratching my head every year. How does someone like Robin Ventura garner votes from 7 - SEVEN different writers? Kevin Appier, David Segui - are you kidding me? Eric Karros actually got two votes. Good players, but not even the same sentence as BBHOF!

To qualify to vote, an individual has to be a member of the BBWAA for 10 years. Your a journalist, not a ball-player. If they were to stand at home plate and see a Bert Blyleven curve ball, they'd be wiping their shorts on the way back to the dugout to place a vote for him for the HOF. He's 5th on the all time strike-out list - I believe when he retired, he was 3rd. He started 685 games tossing 60 shutouts - more than Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton, Jim Palmer, Fergie Jenkins, Don Drysdale and multiple other HOFers. Get a clue already voters.

Make all the ballots public information for each voter and then, maybe then there will be some accountability.

lsutigers1973

Estil,

How do you feel about McGwire now?

ROIDER

Connecticoin

<< <i>

<< <i>I just looked at Dawson's stats. Anyone whining about Jim Rice should shut their yap now. >>



so 2 wrongs make a right? Dawson played Defense and stole bases. Oh wait he did not play the EAST coast

16 Seasons 2089 9058 8225 1249 2452 373 79 382 1451 58 34 670 1423 .298 .352 .502 .854 128 4129 315 64 5 94 77

21 Seasons 2627 10769 9927 1373 2774 503 98 438 1591 314 109 589 1509 .279 .323 .482 .806 119 4787 217 111 24 118 143 >>



I agree the Jim Rice is a "liner". Dawson is a notch below that. Hell, the Crime Dog is better than Dawson -- McGriff had twice as many 100+ RBI seasons as Dawson (8 vs. 4)

He's a good person and was a good player, but we are talking Catfish Hunter territory now.

Estil

<< <i>Estil,

How do you feel about McGwire now?

ROIDER >>



My response from the "Mark McGwire comes clean" topic:

As most of you here know, I had been very adamant about presuming innocence and giving Mr. McGwire the benefit of the doubt. Now before people here start pointing and laughing at me saying "See, we told you so!", I want to say very plainly that I still feel I did the right thing by not presuming guilt without (until now) any really good evidence. And in fact, my hunch about him pleading the fifth (so to speak) so he'd not be in a position to rat out his teammates was at least partially correct. He was indeed doing so to protect others (such as teammates but especially his family) from having to be dragged into court over Mr. McGwire's "stupid mistake", even though at the time he really did want to come clean back then. Besides that, I've been falsely accused of things myself during my life and I know how it feels for people to presume guilt over an allegation (in fact, I'm currently trying to overturn a suspension I received a few months ago at work that I most definitely did not deserve). Therefore, I still maintain that I did the right thing by not assuming Mr. McGwire's guilt over allegations alone. After all, think about how the people who jumped to conclusions regarding the Duke lacrosse players case must've felt after finding out the players were innocent.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out regarding Mr. McGwire's HOF chances though if I was a betting man, I don't think he now stands a chance, now that they know for sure that he did in fact take 'roids. On a related note, suppose Pete Rose does get reinstated at some point and becomes HOF-eligible (after the Selig administration of course), do you really think 75% of the voters will just forget all about his betting on baseball? Not likely.

bking

Here's my fervent hope for Pete Rose and the HOF, and perhaps for others such as Bonds et al: I hope that some period of time (say 10-15 years) goes by and then they can be voted in. They need to "suffer" some sort of penance for what they did to the game (and I feel strongly that they DID do something to the game), yet baseball itself isn't deprived of their presence. In a lot of ways, the HOF is there for future generations to learn about the past, and for current fans to relive past memories. I'd hate to see fans deprived of these memories forever.

lsutigers1973

Estil,

Didn't really mean to sound like I was calling you out. I love McGwire and immediately forgave him when he finally fessed up. My wife loves baseball now becasue of him and Ripken. He rekindled my love for the game in '98. For that I will always be thankful.

I still own only one VHS. My wife recorded the game for me when he hit his 62nd HR.