$1000 Face bags of silver pitfalls?

clackamas

I an thinking of buying a few $1000 face 90% silver bags. What are the pitfalls I should look out for, of course I don't expect to find a bag of 41/42 mercs probably nothing, but thats not why I am buying them. I just would like to know any of the gotchas. Personally I would prefer dimes and quarters to halves.

Zubie

Curious why you prefer dimes and quarters as opposed to halves? I'm collecting lots of silver on a much smaller scale, but, for 90%, I am only collecting halves.

fc

my first thought is how do you know if it is really 1000 dollars face?
after you leave with the bag.. you really have no way to make a claim
if it is 10 dollars short or something. I was never very trusting
of those counting machines in coin stores that looked older then i am.

clackamas

<< <i>Curious why you prefer dimes and quarters as opposed to halves? I'm collecting lots of silver on a much smaller scale, but, for 90%, I am only collecting halves. >>



Its hard to buy a loaf of bread with a half dollar, when a silver dime would buy it. I know it sounds crazy, the majority of my money is in gold an platinum, Stocks, a real estate, but I want to hedge.

cornbread

The only pitfall I can think of, really, is that if you get all older, heavily circulated coins (e.g. Mercury dimes), you will lose a little bit of weight. Normally, that wouldn't bother me because the trade off is looking at old coins, which is always cool, but at $1000 FV, it would add up. If you got all UNC Roosevelts, that wouldn't be a problem, however. APMEX has these for sale, or they used to -- I haven't checked their inventory lately. The only 90% I buy is in dimes, so I can't tell you what circulated quarters look like, or the availibility of UNC quarters.

I hope you find what you like -- a big bag of coins makes you feel like Scrooge McDuck.

clackamas

<< <i>The only pitfall I can think of, really, is that if you get all older, heavily circulated coins (e.g. Mercury dimes), you will lose a little bit of weight. Normally, that wouldn't bother me because the trade off is looking at old coins, which is always cool, but at $1000 FV, it would add up. If you got all UNC Roosevelts, that wouldn't be a problem, however. APMEX has these for sale, or they used to -- I haven't checked their inventory lately. The only 90% I buy is in dimes, so I can't tell you what circulated quarters look like, or the availibility of UNC quarters.

I hope you find what you like -- a big bag of coins makes you feel like Scrooge McDuck. >>



Its interesting you say that because the newer bags, say ken halves and Roosie dimes are cheaper then the mercs and Franklins.

cornbread

Maybe the Merc bags are unsearched and thus may have a few better dates in there. Well, unsearched by the dealer/company that is selling them to you; I doubt if APMEX or another firm of that size checks the 90% they get in, but by the time it reaches them, it's probably been sifted through by previous owners.

There's just something about a bag of shiny dimes . . .

That's kind of surprising that the Franklins have a little bit of a premium -- but then again, the people I know who love Franklins REALLY love Franklins.

You should get whatever it is that you like. It's too big of an investment to buy something that doesn't make your heart go .

mkman123

why not 250 FV halves, 250 FV quarters, and 500 FV dimes?

Halves are really popular and when you need to sell, they sell very easy.

COINB0Y

<< <i>my first thought is how do you know if it is really 1000 dollars face?
after you leave with the bag.. you really have no way to make a claim
if it is 10 dollars short or something. I was never very trusting
of those counting machines in coin stores that looked older then i am. >>




I have to agee with this point.

Trust, but Verify

MoneyLA

I have to agree that the dangers are:

1. is there really a thousand dollars of face value

2. are the coins heavily worn and your silver content is less

Weiss

As for worrying about the bags being shorted: If you buy and sell them on an established market, they won't be checked when you sell or when you buy. They might even come sewn shut or crimped.

Older coins vs. newer coins = trade off:

Older coins have greater potential for numismatic value. "Newer" coins probably not as much.

Older coins have theoretically lost some of their silver. Newer coins probably not as much.

So ideally you'd want to find older uncirculated or near uncirculated coins.

FWIW: Tulving offers his $1000 bags in four $250 bag increments.

jmski52

Bags of silver halves have always carried a premium. Now it seems that Mercs and Walkers are also specified as premium bullion even in smaller lots.

I prefer halves for the simple reason that I don't anticipate making lots of very small purchases - those are the kinds of purchases that I think will be made with scrip. When you start talking about a half dollar - now you're talkin' real money!

I have some dimes too, but only as a contingency. Besides, if I offer a half dollar, I'll expect some kind of change.

rpw

The only issue I encounter is that bags of half dollars inevitably have some 40% halves in them since most of them are machine counted and filled. Usually about 1%, not big enough for me to be concerned about.

roadrunner

I like the idea of a decent quantity of dimes and quarters because you can't always expect to get change back from a silver half or a silver dollar. Mercs and Walkers are a two way play so I like those as well. I'll always take Mercs and Walkers over the newer stuff unless they are all culled out AG/Good slugs.

If your dealer has a big enough scale you can weigh the bag up pretty quickly. I think you'll be surprised that even somewhat worn coins really don't weigh all that much less. Wearing off the peaks of the design is like the tip of the iceberg on a coin. And as already mentioned, those more worn-pre-1950 coins tend to bring a premium to cover that loss, if not more. And any dealer I know would happily fork over a few extra coins if it turned out the count was off by a couple. If you found some extra coins bring them back with you next time, you'll shock the heck out of your dealer but reap dividends down the road.

Save yourself some time and count the darn thing only once. Break it up by denominations and label each part as to qty and price paid.

The biggest pitfall with a $1000 face bag? Not having one! This is probably the most recognizable form of silver the US public knows.

roadrunner

cartermurph

cartermurph

Is there a specifc weight a$1000 face bag should weigh. Wouldn't the weight vary considerable due to the ratio of dimes to halves. I have never been able to calculate the cost per bag on Tulvings site. Sorry if this a stupid question.

Weiss

I know Tulving's site is a little difficult to take in. But as it says: $1000 Bag Has 715 Oz Pure Silver

Doesn't matter if it's $1000 worth of dimes or $1000 worth of half dollars. The amount of silver *should* be the same or really, really close.

If I understand their site correctly, they charge $.29 per ounce over spot. With spot @ $17.63, the per-ounce cost should be $17.92. Multiply that by 715 oz and a bag should run $12,812.80. Check my math. And you can always call them to verify. Also, per their website: Free Shipping On 90% Silver Bags

cartermurph

thanks

dontippet

If I remember correctly, $1,000 face (any combination of coins) has 722 oz of pure silver, but over time, some get rubbed off, making 715 oz the average actual silver content.

PerryHall

<< <i>Wouldn't the weight vary considerable due to the ratio of dimes to halves. >>



Ten dimes or four quarters or two halves all weigh the same which is about 0.72 troy ounces.

Justacommeman

I like $500 face bags better. They are lighter and the reporting of them can be more stealthy

MJ

Kd5ddo

<< <i>If I remember correctly, $1,000 face (any combination of coins) has 722 oz of pure silver, but over time, some get rubbed off, making 715 oz the average actual silver content. >>



I always thought that the BU coins were .723oz/$ and the coins put into circulation were .715oz/$ What I never understood is why that is the case. Were the BU just minted with a higher silver content where the coins for circulation were not?

dontippet

<< <i>

<< <i>If I remember correctly, $1,000 face (any combination of coins) has 722 oz of pure silver, but over time, some get rubbed off, making 715 oz the average actual silver content. >>



I always thought that the BU coins were .723oz/$ and the coins put into circulation were .715oz/$ What I never understood is why that is the case. Were the BU just minted with a higher silver content where the coins for circulation were not? >>



The circulated coins have had some of their silver content "rubbed" off. Typically, that takes them from 723 or 722 oz per $1,000 face to approximately 715 oz. If you had coins that were very worn, then you would have even less silver content.

Kd5ddo

So its really because some silver gets rubbed off? I would not have guessed that...

coynclecter

For a big dealer like Tulving you will most likely get 715 weighed. It would be much less costly for them to sell by weight than to count out 1000 face. Even if they gave you a couple of quarters more.

Weiss

<< <i>So its really because some silver gets rubbed off? I would not have guessed that... >>

secondrepublic

Are the rims/devices higher on the Kennedys? The stack on the right looks a lot bigger, but the actual weight difference is pretty small -- about 1.87%.

Kd5ddo

Wow! You gotta be kidding me...

That's a little crazy. Very cool pictures btw. Thank you for taking the time to do that.

As a quick side question, is that why bullion in the original mint plactic is such a big deal for some people?

Weiss

<< <i>Are the rims/devices higher on the Kennedys? The stack on the right looks a lot bigger, but the actual weight difference is pretty small -- about 1.87%. >>



I think that illustrates that there is a degree of compression (smooshing?) with the older coins where the metal is moved but not necessarily lost.

The Kennedys are all BU (so yes their rims are pristine and quite high). Most of the coins in the older stack are actually WL halves in the F to XF range.

~2% is nothing to sneeze at when you calculate it over 722 ounces--you're talking maybe 13 or 14 ounces. That might be more like 15-17 ounces or more if all the halves were G or worse.

But it's also not the end of the world--especially if you're getting G-VG barbers or XF/AU walkers for the "loss".

roadrunner

Looks like stacks of 21 and 20 to me and as such would weigh about 5% different.

The dark patch on the right hand stack that starts at the 5th coin down is much larger than 2 coins (fits nearly 3 coins). So either there's an Oreo cookie in there or an extra coin.

roadrunner

Weiss

<< <i>Looks like stacks of 21 and 20 to me and as such would weigh about 5% different.

The dark patch on the right hand stack that starts at the 5th coin down is much larger than 2 coins (fits nearly 3 coins). So either there's an Oreo cookie in there or an extra coin.

roadrunner >>



Trust me, or count the rims. That's 20 of each.

mkman123

slight difference, no big deal I think.

The barber stack is still worth more than the kennedy stack though