So You Think You Can Grade? Round 2....Tiny Gold...Pros say FAKE

Crazy4Coins

Looks like the consensus says that the coin is counterfeit. I'll bring the coin with me to FUN and let a few pros look at it in hand to confirm rather than waste money sending it in to a TPG. I had doubts myself about it's authenticity. It's easy to see how these could have been passed off as real.

How common is it for fake coins to have die cracks? That's one thing that made me question this coin. Although you can't really see it in the photo, there is a die crack right on the neck trunk.

Large coins, like silver dollars, are easier to grade imo. Let's try something really small like this Gold $1.

Seems like the smaller a coin is, the harder to grade, imo. This coin comes from a 12pc type set that I bought eons ago.

I know we have some Gold Pros here, so rather than give away the correct answer right off the bat, let us have a round of guesses just so we can see how hard these coins are to properly grade.

STONE

Is it raw, or TPG graded?

Either way I'm saying 65, or at the very least a strong 64.


Although if I take into account my assessment of your Bust Dollar, this coin is probably a 63

Could also be a counterfeit!

darktone

counterfiet

DoubleEagle59

fake (or if it's real then I'll guess ms66)

…

fake

JazzmanJAB

The berrys on the reverse are too big. The reeded edge is way too defined.
Looks Fake.

ambro51

Counterfeit.

This ones not.

DennisH

Not Genuine

BXBOY143

seeing as you say you dont want to give the answer up right off the bat....i'm gonna say it is real and would say MS66.....

unique proof?

tightbudget

Fake

mirabela

From the pic I'd imagine MS65 *if* it's real. I'm not qualified to evaluate that.

SilverEagles92

Lettering on the reverse doesn't look right.

I'll say fake as well.

notwilight

If it's real, it's spectacular. If it were real, it would be in plastic. --Jerry

Type2

But it looks nice.

clackamas

I agree, its not genuine. If it was MS66.

diamondman

MS66

relicsncoins

I don't know if it's real or not. I would tend to lean toward fake. However, I believe that the coin is die struck from from a die that was created from an original coin just based on some of the positioning of letter and characteristics of the stars.

mheffner2

I'm going counterfeit as well

zeebob

Don't know if it's genuine, but assuming it is MS65

notwilight

<< <i>I don't know if it's real or not. I would tend to lean toward fake. However, I believe that the coin is die struck from from a die that was created from an original coin just based on some of the positioning of letter and characteristics of the stars. >>



Since you looked in detail what do you think of the flowlines in the fields? Either the die struck many coins or it was created from a copy of a coin that was struck from a die that struck many coins. --Jerry

devious

no expert, but i say real and ms66

notwilight

<< <i>Counterfeit.

This ones not.

>>



BTW, ambro, since you know the series, what does a proof look like? --Jerry

ambro51

A proof would look amazingly sharp and crisp with strongly defined breaks between the lettering and fields. Dentils are perfectly formed. Actually not a whole lot different from a 'finest known' type example of a business strike. There are possibly two proofs known, but only one has been seen by modern scholars. It was part of the City of Bremen presentation proof set and as of 2008 was noted as part of the Harry Bass Core Collection of gold dollars.. BUT I will say for certain that the item in the OP is certainly NOT the 'other one'. I'd say the OP item is a Lebanese transfer die copy intended for jewelry or numismatic deception.

CertifiedGoldCoins

Bad photo, or bad coin. Looks like both, from here.

derryb

not genuine, looks like a copy of a copy of a copy, especially the reverse lettering

ambro51

So...when shall the "Grade" be revealed?

crazyhounddog

I would say proof , but I don't think they made any proofs that year, so I'll say FAKE!!!

braddick

Keep in mind as you evaluate this one as being a counterfeit, even the genuine coins 'appear' counterfeit if you're depending solely on an analysis of the lettering.
These little critters were difficult to mint!

darktone

<< <i>Keep in mind as you evaluate this one as being a counterfeit, even the genuine coins 'appear' counterfeit if you're depending solely on an analysis of the lettering.
These little critters were difficult to mint! >>

I only had the picture partialy loaded when I saw those casting bubbles.

telephoto1

Looks bad to me as well, at least based on the images provided...

BXBOY143

and the correct answer is.....

ambro51

By 1854 all the mints had the coining of the gold dollar down pretty well. They had made millions and millions of them. Only trouble was that the 12.7 mm size of the coin had became a problem with the public and the mint director made the decision to increase the diameter and make the coin thinner, in an attempt to aid in the ease of using the coin. The thinner type 2 was a problem from day uno...due to the high relief design, and after the design was modified in 1856 the Philadelphia Mint was able to produce some spectacular coins. The Branch mints though...still had problems with a decent strike on the type 3.

Regardless.....one of the main identifiers of a counterfeit gold dollar, and a counterfeit in general, is that the portrait and letters do not make a clean break from the fields of the coin....but are rather rounded, since that is the nature of a die transfer counterfeit. The OP coin clearly shows this.

Crazy4Coins

I also have a 1868 Gold $1 that I'm not sure about. I'll post a few pics of it and get some opinions as well.

thebeav

Fake.....The reverse is so mushy it looks like it was made from oatmeal......

OregonCityGold

Mushy dentils almost always means counterfeit, IMHO.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>and the correct answer is..... >>



I hear Jeopardy™

How much does it weigh ?

mkman123

The fake could have fooled me! I'm glad I stick to bullion and 90% so if I get a fake 90%, I don't lose too much money