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A flaw with VCP that needs to be corrected to maintain their accuracy.

These inaccuracies seem to be occurring when sellers run "percentage off" sales. Lets say for example a card is listed at $200 and the seller runs a 24 hour 25% off sale, and the card sells $150, for some strange reason the eBay closed auction page shows the $200 amount the card was listed at originally, and that is the one that VCP is capturing when the card really sold for only $150.

Here are 3 auctions I won myself that were listed for $10, but the seller was having a 45% off sale, so I won all 3 cards for only $5.50 each.

Bought for $5.50, but VCP shows it sold for $10

Bought for $5.50, but VCP shows it sold for $10

Bought for $5.50, but VCP shows it sold for $10

A screen capture of my paypal receipt showing I paid only $5.50 for each card.
image

Now I understand that my firsthand examples are small dollar amounts, but surely sellers of higher value cards (with their overpriced buy it nows) run 20% off, 40% off, 50% off, etc.......sales, so those are the sales that are really skewing VCP averages.

I will say that eBay's closed auction page which reflects the amount the card was originally listed for, and not the percentage off sale price, is possibly the culprit for VCP capturing the inaccurate data, but it still needs to be addressed.

Comments

  • Just curious why people do not contact me through the VCP website to alert me to problems to get fixed? Looking into this discount looks like it is being done by JC and not through eBay? First time I have seen this kind of thing and we will look into it and get it corrected.
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All sellers run discounts Bobby, but JustCollectCards does run alot more than most.

    As a test, why don't you buy a card from a seller other than JustCollectCards that is running a percentage off sale and see what your site captures. I hope I am wrong.
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Hmm, Ebay's poisoning the past sales data by not reflecting the discount a BIN card sells for.

    Bobby, how often does VCP scan Ebay for past sales on BINs?
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
  • In Bobby's defence on this; if you saw the sale and missed the fine print of the discount; you would assume the sale was $10.00

    I presume there might be a computer program that could catch that but the logic dictates that Bobby's program had the correct price realized on those card.

    Regards
    Rich
    Plano, Tx. Card Show #5, Sunday March 6, 2016 at Adat Chaverim (Northeast Corner Independence and Spring Creek) in Plano Tx 9Am to 4 PM. See you there!
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>In Bobby's defence on this; if you saw the sale and missed the fine print of the discount; you would assume the sale was $10.00..... >>



    So you would rather have VCP's assumption of a selling price rather than the accurate sale price? I'm really not understanding you.



    << <i>......but the logic dictates that Bobby's program had the correct price realized on those card. >>



    The correct prices realized on all 3 cards are $5.50 and VCP shows them all selling for $10.
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    I've noticed this for a while, as Nam said his were small examples but I've seen cards listed for $1500 BIN sell for $1000 but get recorded at $1500. IMO it absolutely is Ebay's way of screwing with a company making money off their business. I would have assumed VCP knew about this, it also happens when a seller drops prices of a current listing... it shows the original price as the final sale. Think about it, I could list a Roberto Clemente 1972 Topps PSA 7 for $5000.00 BIN and accept a $15 offer, it shows the $5000 because that's what the Ebay end listing shows. Good call Nam.
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>......I could list a Roberto Clemente 1972 Topps PSA 7 for $5000.00 BIN and accept a $15 offer, it shows the $5000 because that's what the Ebay end listing shows. Good call Nam. >>



    I'm pretty sure that VCP captures the best offers accurately.
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    i bought a card recently and was sent emails from multiple people asking if I was crazy to pay that for the card... I paid half, but ebay shows the final as the full bin.
  • When I checked VCP did get Best Price correct.... My guess it will be the way ebay is sending the data.... I think Ebay is sending as the sale price was $10.00, and didn't pass the discounts.

    Knowing how many computer systems work, the "discount" I bet is in another field (sort of like the shipping fees), and VCP is only getting the top number of the calculation..

    Cory
    ----------------------
    Working on:
    Football
    1973 Topps PSA 8+ (99.81%)
    1976 Topps PSA 9+ (36.36%)
    1977 Topps PSA 9+ (100%)

    Baseball
    1938 Goudey (56.25%)
    1951 Topps Redbacks PSA 8 (100%)
    1952 Bowman PSA 7+ (63.10%)
    1953 Topps PSA 5+ (91.24%)
    1973 Topps PSA 8+ (70.76%)
    1985 Fleer PSA 10 (54.85%)
  • Does VCP data distinguish cards with qualifiers? If NOT, could folks that sell graded cards argue VCP avgs. are wrongly too low?
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Does VCP data distinguish cards with qualifiers?................ >>



    Yes.
  • So, if someone titles their card PSA 9 and in description adds a qualifier (which happens often), are you saying the folks at VCP manually search each completed auction to double-check for this? Thanks.
  • I have talked with Bobby several times about that and he states that all sellers are checked out for qualifiers and if someone uses qualis than ALL their sales are manually checked since they have not shown to be "good listers"

    Bobby can explain this a heck of a lot better than I can; but there are programs set up to do their best to insure no cards with qualifers are in their system.

    And, I don't know if Bobby's program does this (yet) but another good way to check on qualifiers is to see if the cards are sold within the previous range(s). Usually a card lower than the last legit low is a card with a qualifier. And a good computer program should be able to ferret out that information.

    Again; I don't like speaking for others; but I know Bobby is very careful about doing his best to make sure no cards with qualis are in the VCP listings.

    And I think the person who noted about the seperate computer fields is correct for the discounted cards. For whatever reason; I suspect those discounts are made by the seller. If they are made automatically by EBay then EBay needs to do something to make sure the price the card sold has the correct amount. M
    Plano, Tx. Card Show #5, Sunday March 6, 2016 at Adat Chaverim (Northeast Corner Independence and Spring Creek) in Plano Tx 9Am to 4 PM. See you there!
  • We are looking into this discount situation and hope to have it resolved soon.

    In regards to checking for qualifiers I think we do a very good job at catching the majority of them and denote it properly. All new listing go in our program where they get checked to make sure they are listed in our system properly. Here is where we can rate sellers, if a seller does not list qualifiers in the title then there is a WARN sign by all of their listings and we check them closer to verify. If a seller does list qualifier then we note them as OKAY and can process their listings into our system much faster.
  • Thanks for the update, Bobby. Sounds like you are making strong efforts to make sure your price reporting is accurate. I am a big fan of your site. Keep up the good work.
  • NickMNickM Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭
    How does VCP deal with bad listing jobs by the seller (e.g., misspelled the player's name).

    I do some odd searches to pick up auctions like that, and often get them for far less than market price (I picked up one PSA 7 '60s card of a HOFer for about 1/3 of the average price this week because the seller didn't list the player name in the title). It's good news for me and bad news for the seller, but it really shouldn't affect the perceived value of anyone else's cards IMO.

    Nick
    image
    Reap the whirlwind.

    Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
  • "How does VCP deal with bad listing jobs by the seller (e.g., misspelled the player's name)."

    Fairly simple if the seller puts the name in wrong it does not matter because they still have to match up with the names and numbers in our set lists to be excepted.
  • So your system misses those sales?
  • No we don't miss the sales we correct them so they show up properly in our system. For example if a person lists a T206 Chase throwing and we start typing in the players name it will show all the variations for us to choose the correct one. If a seller spells a name wrong on a topps card really does not matter because our system tracks by the number. Even when there are variations in the set we catch that as well, for example 1958 Topps #20 comes in either Yellow or White. When we put in 20 it will show us 20y and 20w so we check the card to see which one.
  • Thanks for the clarification.


  • << <i>"How does VCP deal with bad listing jobs by the seller (e.g., misspelled the player's name)."

    Fairly simple if the seller puts the name in wrong it does not matter because they still have to match up with the names and numbers in our set lists to be excepted. >>

    If this is the case the price will not be accurate, since they usually go lower, Like NickM mention he got a card at 1/3 the avg price.
    Looking for in PSA graded
    1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+
    2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+
    3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10

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    1992 Courtside Flashback
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    2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game
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  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any update yet regarding the failure to capture the correct final price on the "percentage off" type sales that I mentioned in my original post?
  • With the holidays it is going to take some time. Once it has happened I will make mention of it
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any updates on if this problem has been fixed yet?
  • The people in this area of the site are on holiday and hope to get it resolved next week.
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The people in this area of the site are on holiday and hope to get it resolved next week. >>



    If they're the only ones that know how, let's hope they never die.
  • Geez Nam:

    Give those guys some time; this was a holiday week and they deserve time to spend with their families as well. Bobby explained that the people who could fix that problem were going to have a short work week (if any at all) on the 22nd and you're asking again.

    Now; if we hit December 22nd; then feel free to make another complaint post about "has this been fixed" image

    Regards
    Rich

    Plano, Tx. Card Show #5, Sunday March 6, 2016 at Adat Chaverim (Northeast Corner Independence and Spring Creek) in Plano Tx 9Am to 4 PM. See you there!
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Geez Nam:

    Give those guys some time; this was a holiday week and they deserve time to spend with their families as well. Bobby explained that the people who could fix that problem were going to have a short work week (if any at all) on the 22nd and you're asking again.

    Now; if we hit December 22nd; then feel free to make another complaint post about "has this been fixed" image

    Regards
    Rich >>



    What are you, his cousin? That's a heck of a vacation these guys are on, and only for Thanksgiving. Imagine how long they get for Christmas. Your cousin bobby sounds like a great boss.
  • royalbrettroyalbrett Posts: 620 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Geez Nam:

    Give those guys some time; this was a holiday week and they deserve time to spend with their families as well. Bobby explained that the people who could fix that problem were going to have a short work week (if any at all) on the 22nd and you're asking again.

    Now; if we hit December 22nd; then feel free to make another complaint post about "has this been fixed" image

    Regards
    Rich >>



    What are you, his cousin? That's a heck of a vacation these guys are on, and only for Thanksgiving. Imagine how long they get for Christmas. Your cousin bobby sounds like a great boss. >>



    Gee, if I agree with Rich, I wonder what part of the family I would be from?

    Actually, I do agree with Rich, so fire away nam.
    Yeah, I uploaded that KC icon in 2001
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>......Actually, I do agree with Rich, so fire away nam. >>



    You can agree with who you like, but the bottom line is, every day (every hour even) that this problem is not addressed/corrected, VCP's date becomes more contaminated and more inaccurate.
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any updates to this problem yet, or is everyone at VCP still on Thanksgiving vacation?
  • swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,911 ✭✭✭
    I choose not to subscribe to their service...

    maybe others should make the same decision...

    the constant berating and "shots" get old...


    Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
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  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>.....maybe others should make the same decision... >>



    I have.



    << <i>.....the constant berating and "shots" get old... >>



    That's too bad because I still care enough about the good members of this forum that still subscribe. They deserve answers/accuracy from a service they are spending their hard earned money for.
  • swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,911 ✭✭✭
    Really?

    sounds like someone has a personal axe to grind...

    and, it is transparent...

    although, the worrying about how other spend their money was a nice touch...


    Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
    - uncut


    Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Really?...... >>



    Yes, really.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<the constant berating and "shots" get old..>>>>>>>>>>



    They never get old. image



    Steve
    Good for you.
  • UphillUphill Posts: 359 ✭✭
    These are some of my favorite threads. If I don't like them then I don't open them.

    And then my life goes on.
    Jamie

    Looking for Charlie (Charley) Maxwell cards.
  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    I pay for VCP, and I love the service. It's not perfect, but it has helped me tremendously.
  • All this drama for $13.50?
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This sure is one heck of a long Thanksgiving holiday.
  • UphillUphill Posts: 359 ✭✭
    TTT.image
    Jamie

    Looking for Charlie (Charley) Maxwell cards.
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here it is 2 months later, and the problem still has not been corrected. This card sold for $8.75, but a buddy with access to VCP told me it is recorded as a $25 sale.

    From the auction listing:

    Currently 65% Off Sale Through Thursday 12/03!!
    Originally $25 - Now $8.75


    When will VCP address this discounting problem that is rendering all the data associated with it inaccurate?
  • hammeredhammered Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭
    Is VCP data taken directly from the completed auction listings or from a list of paypal transactions?
    Since Ebay is not reflecting discounts on the completed sales (and I have no idea why they aren't), perhaps the data should be pulled from a different location?
    Maybe pulling them from completed paypal transactions would reflect what was actually paid.
    And if Ebay is moving toward exclusively BIN down the road, you might see more discounts offered.
    Of course I'm just guessing because I have no idea how your system works.
  • Dealing with the developer program with eBay we got a new code to properly catch the discounts offered. We where also able to run a script on the past sales to correct those as well. So in essence the problem has been solved.
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>.........So in essence the problem has been solved. >>



    Potential subscribers spending their hard earned money may choose to wait until the "in essence" is gone from that sentence.
  • I used the word "essence" because it was not a major problem and was limited to a very small percentage of sales and it is fixed.
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