New Purchase: Large Copper (John Paul Jones, Julian Naval Medal #1)

Barndog

never thought I would own one of these, but got one earlier this year or last year, I forget which.
Then I saw this different one for sale and figured "what the hey" despite its problems it is a really
cool piece of numismatic Americana. So now this medal is a duplicate that I am happy to own.
Yes, it did have a suspension loop attached at the top and someone removed it. To the best of my
knowledge and ability to discern, this piece was struck using the original dies. The green stuff is there,
I see it, yes I do. It is what it is. These things don't have any consistent pricing guide that I know of.
Maybe someone with more knowledge than I have will provide us with more information and/or background?

STONE

<< <i>it is a really cool piece of numismatic Americana >>


You mean Comitia Americana

LoveMyLiberty

Some added info. here John Paul Jones

BillJones

The John Paul Jones medal is one of the easier pieces from the Comitia Americana series to find an example that was stuck from the original die pair. The original dies still exist, and I think they are with the original gold medal that was awarded to Jones at the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. The French dies have the name of the designer and die maker, Dupre, on them. The American mint version of the medal does not have that feature.

You can date this piece within a period of years if you can find a marking on the edge. This piece is from my collection. It has the Pointing Hand on the edge with indicates that it was struck between 1845 and 1860. If you can find the mark on your coin, I look up in the charts when it was made.



Here is the edge marking on my piece.

Barndog

thank you for the excellent information. I checked both of my pieces, neither has an edge marking, yet both are Paris Mint versions (Dupre)

BillJones

The early Philadelphia mint (circa 1863) examples of this medal, which were made from gun metal dies do have "Dupree" on them. I was in error about that aspect of the Philadelphia mint products. These gun metal dies were made from restrikes of the Jones medal that the Paris mint sent to Philadelphia. These pieces had edge flaws or were poorly struck. Later the Philly mint made a whole new set of dies that did have "Dupree" on them.

You medal might be a pre-1845 Paris mint strike. It's hard to tell when you don't have these pieces in hand.

richardshipp

Wow... look at the relief on those suckers. Sweet.

BillJones

<< <i>Wow... look at the relief on those suckers. Sweet. >>



Yes, and to think those dies were made prior to 1800, and they were used to strike medals with kind of detail.

Billet7

How much do those things usually go for?

I would love to add one to my "ships" set.

BillJones

<< <i>How much do those things usually go for?

I would love to add one to my "ships" set. >>



You can buy a modern restrike with the sand blasted, "yellow bronze" finish for short money, like $30 or less. They have the relief, but the surfaces and eye appeal are not pleasing. I have a modern Paris mint example on my dresser for which I paid $15.

The pieces with the rich 19th century mahogany finish are going to run you a couple grand at least if they are nicely preserved and don’t show the unsightly cuds (edge die breaks) that show up on some examples. This medal got really popular about the time that I bought mine almost 20 years ago. I’ve been amazed at some of the quotes I’ve seen for Comitia Americana medals recently.

Barndog

the restrikes are rather "yucky" IMO. They have a golden, peanut-buttery color that is quite unappealing.

BillJones

<< <i>the restrikes are rather "yucky" IMO. They have a golden, peanut-buttery color that is quite unappealing. >>



The medal that I pictured in this thread is a restrike. The problem is with the 20th century yellow bronze finish. That where the "peanut butter" look comes in.

Barndog

<< <i>

<< <i>the restrikes are rather "yucky" IMO. They have a golden, peanut-buttery color that is quite unappealing. >>



The medal that I pictured in this thread is a restrike. The problem is with the 20th century yellow bronze finish. That where the "peanut butter" look comes in. >>



right, I should have stated my distaste for MODERN restrikes.

jonathanb

I believe the one in the OP is an original strike. It has that look, and the strike has the quality of the original (look at the sharpness of the letters in the legends, for example). In fact, I think that both Barndog's medal BillJones's medal were struck from the same dies. The both have a chevron-shaped mark to the top-left of the left flower-thing (to the left of COMITIA on the obverse).

As far as pricing goes, I have 13 auction records from the last 3 years, with prices ranging from $3,000-$9,000 for originals, and $500-1,900 for 19th-century restrikes. I assume the price differences are related to condition, but I didn't go back to confirm.

To contrast the quality of the original strikings to the later restrikes, here are a couple of medals that were in the latest B&M sale. Both of these look like later restrikes to me (and neither of them have that chevron-shaped mark, fwiw):

Barndog

jonathanb, thanks for the information!

I might as well post a picture of my other NA-1:

edit: Larger pics posted

SCDHunter

I'll throw my "copy" into the mix:

coinsarefun

Nice one Barndog!!




And, I would be happy to own any of the ones posted here........

except for the peanut butter color one
I know what you mean, they are yucky.

I would take your medal any day.......................earwax and all

BillJones

For you peanut butter lovers, here is a modern French example of the John Paul Jones medal. The edge marking is the cornucopia and the word "BRONZE." The execution of this is nicer in my opinion than the recent French copies of the Libertas Americana Medal. I paid $15 for this a FUN show a few years ago, and it sits up on my dresser on a little medal stand.

TwoSides2aCoin

"earwax and all"