EBAY cancels my auction after I'm paid & I shipped coin. *UPDATE* Now Paypal Reverses my payment

greghansen

I recently listed a 1904 $20 ANACS MS64 for $2,745 and it got bought on Thursday. Buyer promptly paid via Paypal. As is my custom, I immediately left positive feedback for the buyer and again per my custom, hit the 'contact buyer' button on EBAY and sent a short message thanking them for the prompt Paypal payment and advising that the coin would be shipped via USPS Registered/Insured mail on Friday. On Friday, I package the coin and drop it off at the post office Registered and Insured. The coin is now out of my hands and on its way to the buyer.

About 2 hours ago I get a message through EBAY's message system as follows:

We recently learned that someone was using an account to bid on items without the account owner's permission. For this reason, we have canceled all bids on the following listing:

270479369801 - 1904 ANACS MS-64 $20 Liberty Double Eagle

All associated fees have been credited to your account. Please note that we're working with the account owner to prevent any additional unauthorized activity.

Your listing may be eligible for relisting through My eBay. If your listing is eligible, you'll see it in your Unsold Items page within My eBay. Listings that aren't eligible for relisting won't appear in the Unsold Items page.

If you have any concerns or questions, you can contact us by clicking "Help" at the top of any eBay page.

We're sorry for any inconvenience, and we thank you for your patience and cooperation.

Sincerely,

eBay Customer Support

I can't post a link to the auction because it no longer appears ANYWHERE on my Ebay listings. It's not in the unsold items, its not back in the active items...it's just disappeared AS IF IT NEVER EXISTED...yet I no longer have the coin! WTF!

I'm loathe to try to call EBAY at 3 a.m. to find out what the heck is going on, but I figure I have maybe a 6-9 hour window to make a decision to do something. Has anyone had any experience trying to stop delivery on a USPS Registered Package. Can it be done?

Whoever the 'unauthorized bidder' was...apparently also had the buyers Paypal ID and password because the item was paid for immediately. The shipping address through Paypal system was a confirmed address...nothing about the transaction raised any suspicions at all. My Paypal account hasn't been clawed back yet, but I know that's just a matter of time.

EBAY would have known of my communications to buyer about expected shipping of the coin since I did it through their system. I am just really peaved that I only learn of this from them AFTER they've cancelled the whole deal without ever making ANY effort to notify me to delay shipment on a $2,750 item because there may be a problem on the buyers end.

The winning bidder, is Gary D Tancer of Boca Raton, Florida. His business is Coin Gallery of Boca Raton. Obviously if this is not a scam, even if my coin gets delivered, he will return it. The shipping address I shipped to is the actual address of the Coin Gallery at 2500 Military trail in Boca Raton.

But even if some unauthorized person or some employee exceeding the scope of their auction authority bought this coin, I would have expected when the problem was found, either Gary, or whoever discovered the unauthorized bid, would have contacted me either through EBAY or directly (what I would have done) to alert me to the problem and advise me to hold shipment until it was sorted out, expecially since I had sent information to him on when I would be shipping the coin.

I guess the thing that steams me the most about both EBAY and Gary is that NO ONE contacted me about the possible issue and instead just allowed me ship the coin out even though I had given written notice through EBAY as to when I expected to ship the coin...and now at 3 a.m. in the morning I have to start scrambling like crazy to try to get it back and I have NO IDEA what happened on the other end. I'm just a bit steamed at both parties right now and would appreciate any clear thinking advice on how best to proceed to maximize the chances that I get my coin back. Had I been out of town this weekend or not been checking my listings for a couple of days, this thing would have been long gone and probably long delivered without me ever having heard word one from EBAY or the buyer. That sucks in so many ways.

Meltdown

This is just my nature, but I would trust the buyer to return it.
Even though it's a suspicious sounding story there could still be a "logical" explanation to all of this.

Good luck.

RedHerring

I understand your frustration but you are LUCKY this went to a legit coin shop. You'll get it back but I'm not sure how to handle the shipping fees.

Here's their website:

Coin Gallery Linky

Give them a call in a few hours. Maybe he'll buy it and save you the fees.

sinin1

eBay suks

if the buyer paid you and wants the coin - consider it sold

probably an underbidder caused problems


may want to call the buyers on Monday (maybe open Sat)

is the cash still in PAYPAL?

ocon4008

This just sux! Please keep us posted; I am getting more and more leary of buying anything on Ebay anymore. Good luck.

greghansen

Just a couple of updated details before I go out for breakfast.

This was a 'Buy it Now' auction for $2,745. Thursday I saw it had been purchased. I sent an EBAY Invoice for $2,745 to winning bidder coingalleryofbocaraton. I have a copy of my EBAY invoice showing it was sent @ 1:52 p.m. on Thursday.

Later that day @ 5:48 p.m. I get standard Paypal email notification that starts as follows:
'Hello Gregory Hansen. You received a payment of $2,745 USD from coingalleryofbocaraton. Thanks for using PayPal. You can now ship any items. To see all the transaction details, log in to your Paypal account.

I did log into my Paypal account and saw that payment had indeed been made. The 'Transaction Details' page had the box checked for 'OK to ship' and showed that the buyer had made their payment via Paypal @ 5:47 p.m. Thursday. I then emailed coingalleryofbocaraton via the EBAY system thanking them for their prompt payment and advising that the coin would be mailed via USPS Registered/Insured mail on Friday.

My postal receipt shows I mailed this @ 4:29 p.m. Friday.

The EBAY system shows that their notice of my listing being removed was first sent to me @ 2:23 a.m. Saturday, about 2 1/2 hours ago. This was the VERY FIRST notice I received of anything out of the ordinary from anybody. This first notification arrived over 36 hours AFTER the auction had ended, over 30 hours AFTER Paypal payment had been made, and about 10 hours AFTER I had mailed the product pursuant to Paypals notice and instructions. Can you imagine what sort of feedback ratings you would get if you delayed shipment on every product until you could independently contact the buyer and confirm whether he had authority to buy a product he just bought! Un effing believable. And, of course, whoever @ coingalleryofbocaraton that was communicating vigorously with EBAY about the unauthorized bid (if that is what is was) has failed to make any effort to contact me or advise me of the problem even yet. If it was important enough to them to get EBAY to nuke the listing surely they would have thought it was important enough to notify the seller to hold the shipment. Didn't happen.

Since my OP I have called and left a message @ the business number provided by another forum member. Got a message machine and left a message. I have also emailed buyer via his email address provided by Paypal. Hopefully within the few hours those steps will produce some results and I will be able to find out what is going on and get some assurances regarding the return of my coin if I can't catch it at the Post Office.

...I need coffee...

ocon4008

<<...I need coffee...>>

Spike it! You deserve it! Irish coffee is better anyway.

Wolf359

Oh my. I hope it all works out.

ksteelheader

<< <i>Oh my. I hope it all works out. >>



Ditto!

darktone

Withdraw those funds from your Paypal account ASAP!

Staircoins

<< <i>Withdraw those funds from your Paypal account ASAP! >>

ponderit

The first thing I would try short of contacting the buyer as you've already done is get to the Post Office the minute they open today and see if you package might still be there. Being registered mail it could be that it didn't get into the system yet and is still on site

golfer72

He payed you, you shipped him the coin. Ebay canceled the auction after it was already over. Sounds like Ebay was a little bit late to me. As long as you have the money though.

Foxer

Yeah as long as you got paid and shipped the coin to the buyer whats the big deal?

I withdraw any paypal payments to my bank account within minutes of receiving them... just in case any whacky %^#& like your experiencing comes up..

With eBay and Paypal YOU NEVER KNOW.

Another thing I always do is wait until the funds have been transferred from my paypal account and are in my bank account.

I disclose this information CLEARLY in my auction listings. Especially with a high dollar item.

"I ship the day payment clears, usually 3 days after payment."



I had a similar situation with a canadian buyer... a few days after my listing ended Paypal "suspected" fraud... etc etc etc... and the listing was cancelled.

Since then I no longer deal internationally... and always wait until the funds are in my bank before I ship.

lunytune2

Contact the post office immediately , i'm sure you have a tracking number and they can stop delivery.

jsf

!!NOTICE!! NOTICIA

Maybe I read this wrong, but ebay didn't say the winning bidder WAS the compromised account. Did they?

Double check the facts. REREAD and think.

This is likely the type of email that would be sent in the event someone complained about possible shill bidding.

Foxer

<< <i>This is likely the type of email that would be sent in the event someone complained about possible shill bidding. >>



But wasn't it a Buy it Now listing?

jsf

auction. BIN. Whatever. End result is the same. ebay did NOT say the abuse was actually on the compromised account and/or it was in fact the winner/buyer.

*ed.-ebay did say someone had used the account to bid on something, didn't they? Not necessarily this auction/listing?

kranky

I'm not seeing the danger here. You know you shipped it to a legit established coin shop and IF something was fishy with the bidding, he'll return it and you can return the payment. Is it possible he fully intended to buy your coin and his account got compromised after he bought it, and ebay was too aggressive in cancelling purchases? Perhaps Gary didn't intend to cancel your transaction and that's why he didn't see a need to contact you.

In any event, I would go to the post office and see if the package is still there, and find out what you need to do to recall the package until everything is better understood.

Foxer

Even though the eBay listing has been cancelled there is still a Paypal record for it.

I bought a laser pointer from the UK once and shortly after I won and paid eBay pulled the listing.

But I still got my item... and the seller still got payment.

fishcooker

There is a post where MrEarlyGold attempted, and succeeded, in stopping a package (containing gold) that was in route to a fraudster. It contains details you may need. Search on Russel Harrison. Sorry I dont' know how to link it.

OchoReales

I know Gary personally and if you sent the coin to him, you will not have a problem getting the coin back. If you'd like, I'll call him for you. PM me and let me know.

Justacommeman

Greg that just blows..........EBAY aggreviation stinks.............I'm sure you will be made whole. The time and trouble is what sucks............MJ

derryb

Notice to all ebay sellers:

Always keep a copy of every paypal details page. The one that says "OK to ship" and "Seller Protection: Eligible." If a paypal details page does not say these things, always hold shipment until they do. Always check the paypal details page for the these items before shipping and also check to see that mailing address is "confirmed."

If things change, as they did in Greg's case, you still have seller protection based on the details page.

greghansen

Post office open @ 9 a.m. and I will be there to see if I can catch/stop delivery. Just a couple of notes from comments & suggestions made by others (which I do appreciate):

I was relieved to see posts from folks that know Gary personally and are vouching for him. I feel better about that already and I still don't know if he even knows what is going on or whether he is personally in the loop on this thing. I expect to know more about that later today.

Kranky asked if it is possible Gary fully intended to buy the coin and his account got comprimesed after the auction and EBAY was over aggressive in cancelling the auction. IMO, yes that is a possibility, and perhaps made more likely by the fact that, so far, the Paypal transaction is standing and I haven't been notified of any 'reversal' or request for reversal of the Paypal transaction. As stated earlier, and per advice from another poster, I always wait for the Paypal transaction detail page to show it is 'OK to ship', and I did get that notification from Paypal on this deal.

Several suggested withdraw the Paypal money now. I went ahead and initiated that process though I don't think it is a solution. First, it takes a few days, especially since we are now into the weekend, so any request for reversal will be done before the transfer occurs. Even if the money did transfer, Paypal could 'claw it back' from my bank account in a disputed transaction. I know there are folks who use a bank account only to sweep Paypal funds into and then immediately transfer them to another bank account not linked to Paypal, but frankly if your selling any volume at all, the logistics of all this required sweeping and intra bank transferring just are not practical. Finally, even if it did work to keep the money, if Paypal concluded you owed the money back and you didn't give it up, the Paypal account is going to be terminated and your not going to be able to keep doing business with them.

For those who don't see the problem because I've been paid and I've shipped the coin...I hope your right. But when I see that an auction for a coin has been cancelled by EBAY due to an allegedly unathorized bidder, I don't think I'm over reacting to suspect that the buyer will also seek to rescind the Paypal transaction as well. I mean, really, put yourself in the buyer's shoes. If you had an someone who made an unauthorized bid on your account and you had EBAY cancel the bid...are you really going to say, well the hacker also paid for it on my Paypal account, so I guess I'm stuck with the coin? The fact that the Paypal payment is still standing as of this morning is the thing I'm most unsure of...and is the reason that I hope Kranky's scenario turns out to be the case.

At any rate, I'm off to the post office and will post an update with what they tell me. Not the way I wanted to spend this Saturday morning.

jesbroken

I would copy every piece of evidence I had, the paypal page showing the payment received, the paypal email notice, the ebay cancellation notice, any pms between you and the buyer, any thing I could copy, and then withdraw the funds if still at paypal. Then you could at least feel better about having some control of the situation. Not much but some.
Best of luck.
Jim

Barndog

in the end, I think you will have a happy buyer, your money in the bank, and no final value fees to pay to ebay. Just my assessment.

CaptHenway

<< <i>Contact the post office immediately , i'm sure you have a tracking number and they can stop delivery. >>



Yes, this can be done. Go there first thing this morning.
TD

OPA

I believe, under your described circumstances, you are still covered under PayPal seller protection, as long as there is an electronic signature confirmation available and you abided by eBay & PayPal's policies.

derryb

I wouldn't rush to cancel delivery until I talked to buyer. Since it's registered you have a few days to cancel delivery and have it returned by the post office.

greghansen

Well, the package is no longer at my local post office though I just dropped it off there at 4:30 yesterday afternoon. The clerk had me fill out a 'Request to Recall' form (which I've never had to do before) and said they would 'try' to locate the package for me before delivery. After several posts and PM's from fellow members who know the buyer, I am now quite confident that at worst I'll get the coin back...but the not knowing part behind the auction cancellation is bugging me to no end. Well now I guess I get to call EBAY and see what, if anything, I can get those jokers to tell me about why my auction listing was cancelled a day and a half after it ended. Can't wait to hear this explanation...

P.S. I think it has been clarified, but this wasn't a multiple bid or multiple bidder situation where only one of several bids was cancelled. It was a one bid, BIN listing. The one winning BIN bid has now been cancelled by EBAY per their email to me and the listing has been deleted. From their perspective, its as if it never happened. Yet, the buyer (or somebody) has paid me $2,745 and I have shipped a coin. Crazy.

Mar327

<< <i>I wouldn't rush to cancel delivery until I talked to buyer. Since it's registered you have a few days to cancel delivery and have it returned by the post office. >>




I agree - the first step should be to talk to the buyer. I've heard of this happening before, when it was a legit purchase. I agree with a post above, you're probably going to have a happy buyer and no FVF's.

PawPaul

from one perspective : if Paypal dosn't yank the money from your account- you have lost nothing ?

TwoSides2aCoin

I'd like to see the coin as much as I feel the passion.

segoja

Step 1 CALL THE BUYER If all is legit, you win. Sale + no final value fees
Step 2 If the buyer has an issue or didn't authorize, do what you did as step 1

As long as you mailed this to the confirmed address and it's Gary's, you should have nothing to worry about.

I had a series of auctions cancelled about the time E-Bay started saying you could not list greysheet bids for proof sets. All the items sold, I was paid and got to keep my FVF. I didn;t get any feedback, but I was happy because I made more $$$.

My prediction.....unless oyu get the coin back form the PO, you'll like the outcome of this deal.

greghansen

Just got off the phone with EBAY. I would characterise that conversation as 'professionally unrewarding'.

Yes, we cancelled the auction. Yes, there was a problem with the account. Yes the buyer may contest the Paypal payment. We're sorry to hear you've already shipped the coin. You can explain all that to Paypal if the payment is contested.

'Tanks for nuttin Danny!'

I appreciate and agree with the recommendation to contact the buyer. I have emailed every email address I have, and called every phone number I have, but it is Saturday morning and I understand the legitimate owner of this EBAY ID is probably in Baltimore this weekend. He may be as suprised as I was to find out about all this. I hope so. But I'm not 100% comfortable with my position with no coin and staring at the liklihood of a Paypal dispute if somebody got access to his Paypal ID and password. I take some comfort in the fact that the shipping address is the correct and confirmed address of his business in Boca Raton. I'd sure like to talk to him for about 3 minutes to see what his position is on the auction. Hopefully...sometime today...

Walkerguy21D

Sounds like you've done everything you could, given this bizarre situation, Greg - Hopefully it all works out Ok for you.
And if you need anyone to ride down to Boca with you to 'help straighten things out' give me a call
(for those who don't know, this location is about 2 hr from where Greg and I live).

Greeniejr

Gary is in Baltimore right now but on Monday when he gets home give him a call. If there is a problem I am sure he will make good and send you a check. I just took a 15k check from him in Baltimore with absolutely no hesitation. Just relax, the deal is done and think of it this way, you wont have to pay eBay fees on the transaction.

greghansen

I'd like to see the coin as much as I feel the passion.

I can't link the auction because EBAY has made it disappear entirely. I can post the auction images that were used. For what it's worth, though it's not really relevant to anything, this is the coin that started all the trouble.

BigRick

Zero out the bank account the money went into!

Perhaps it's worth the 138 Mile Drive or maybe you can stop the shipment (one benefit of using FedEx).

BaseballAbs

Relax i say. You will be just fine. I see no error done on your part, you had a confirmed address by paypal. You should be taken care of in the end when it all gets worked out. They also have insurance for these type of things as long as you did everything right on your end and it sounds like you did. Paypal should have all the records of what has transpired. I would think it would get resolved even if Ebay screws it up. BUT, I have heard numerous stories where if you leave your money in paypal they will take it out if they think theres a problem even if your in the right. TAKE YOUR FREEKING MONEY OUT OF PAYPAL ASAP!!!! Don't leave it in there, transfer it as soon as you recieve it.

TwoSides2aCoin

Nice coin Greg. Thanks for sharing it and it's quite relevant to everything. You see, gold is up, the coin is awesome, the value is determined and the hunt is on.

Why did I post what I posted earlier ? I'm especially sorry for the frustrations you experience with eBay/PayPow™. You ain't the only one, sir.
Have you taken a look at what their money market pays for leaving one's hard earned money in a PayPow™ account ? .07% ?
Not the greatest place to keep my money, but a debit card that offers 2% cashback and the ability to "track" is relevant to businesses far and wide.

So anyway, without going into a dissertation of relevance, it's important to understand why I think the COIN is important to this thread.

God bless you and have a wonderful day.


Joe

coinbuf

<< <i>I wouldn't rush to cancel delivery until I talked to buyer. Since it's registered you have a few days to cancel delivery and have it returned by the post office. >>




+1 on this

Coinlearner

<< <i>Contact the post office immediately , i'm sure you have a tracking number and they can stop delivery. >>

...That is the FIRST step with a high value coin........After contacting/ confirming with buyer about coin ,you can reship,at your expense. Buyer should understand and impossible to neg you with no record of sale. Do not like "hearing" the PO will "TRY" to return package before delivery. Be interested on outcome,as these things can happen to anyone of us.

greghansen

Buyer just called me @ home. I feel much better. Apparently he was as suprised as I that EBAY thought his account had been compromised. He had a large order he was trying to fill, so he was buying more stuff than normal. He suspects this raised some flag @ EBAY but apparently nobody called him or tried to confirm whether his bids were for real. Instead, in the middle of the night they just started cancelling his bids, even going back to stuff (like mine) that had already ended. It's not a money thing, he has over 300 items listed on EBAY the value of which dwarfs my transaction, and his Paypal payment went through fine. I advised him that since I didn't know what was going on at his end I had went to PO already and put in a request to stop delivery on the coin. He was very understanding said he would have done the same thing.

Those who predicted that I was premature in trying to halt delivery and that in the end, the deal would go through, look like they are going to be correct. The way we left it after our phone call, is that as soon as I hear from PO about location of the coin, I will either authorize delivery to him, or if they return it back to me, I'll let him know I've got it and will reship to him.

Now I can watch football and have a frostry brew without having to worry about my little EBAY fiasco. Poor Gary, on the other hand, said he had about another dozen or so sellers who were in the same situation as I that he was going to have to try to contact because of similar messages they would have received from FleaBay.

derryb

Maybe it's not to late to cancel your delivery cancellation with the post office.

OchoReales

It's a shame that everyone is so quick to be armchair quarterbacks with every conceivable bit of advice without reading earlier posts (mine) and without first advising Greg to speak to the buyer.

Greg, I just spoke to Gary a few minutes ago on his cell. He's back from Baltimore and had some Ebay problems due to a large amount ($40,000) spent in just a couple of days period. This is not too unusual for him but, the 'brains' at Ebay thought so. He DID buy the coin and is not cancelling the transaction. Your money is SAFE. Now everyone, put the keyboard down and back away and have a

Glad it all worked out!

notwilight

reread the letter from ebay. they didn't say that the winner was an unauthorized user, they said one bidder was. They may have found an unauthorized bidder somewhere and he may have bid on 200 items. they cancelled them all. they didn't even look at them.

You are expecting ebay to look at each listing, read the messages, understand what is going on, and make an informed decision. that willnever happen.

You just got a windfall bonus: no ebay fees. Just make sure you're really talking to the buyer and you're fine.

Iknow it is hard not to overreact to such a thing but I've been through it many times. It has always worked out fine for me.

--Jerry

jsf

yeppers, good to go.

I have had one deal with these folks. I did have reservations, hairs on the back of my neck kind of thing, but all was good.

He does have some high-$ stuff, doesn't he?

How long has he been around, anyway? I just started noticing him a few months ago. Of course it was a Walker.

LindeDad

Sounds like it's time for a road trip down south. It looks like it's a few hours down there.

mrearlygold

<< <i>There is a post where MrEarlyGold attempted, and succeeded, in stopping a package (containing gold) that was in route to a fraudster. It contains details you may need. Search on Russel Harrison. Sorry I dont' know how to link it. >>




I don't know how to find it ! We were able to get the express mail stopped. But that was because of our local postal people letting me in before they were even open and making phone calls, sending faxes in my behalf. The postal inspector was useless.

That's pretty wild Greg. I don't know how you guys put up with this ebay stuff.