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2009 - 10 Red Sox Off Season Thread

So, the 2009 season was a bit of a disappointment but now it's time to look ahead to next year. Let's discuss the free agent signings, the trades, and the farm system in anticipation of a better 2010 season.

A couple things have already taken place:
The Sox traded for Jeremy Hermida.
They declined the option on Alex Gonzalez. Though it sounds like they might still try to work out a cheaper contract with him.
Wakefield and the Sox are renegotiating his contract due to concerns about his back. Lower base salary with performance incentives that would restore his total salary to the $4 mill mark he was getting.
And within the last couple of hours the Sox officially picked up the option on Victor Martinez.

I like all these moves, with the possible exception of not signing Gonzalez. He was a good fit. I hope they can work something out with him still. Hermida is good insurance against outfield injuries and in case they can't sign Bay.

My main hope for the rest of the off season: trade for Adrian Gonzalez.
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Comments

  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would like to see Lackey in a Sox uniform. And either Papelblown learns a new pitch that he can throw for strikes or I'd rather he be in a different uniform next year.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    latest:

    Team declined Varitek's option (Tek still has a player option)
    Team declined Wakefield option (tore up contract) and signed Wakefield to two year contract
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Honestly Im still far too aggrevated at this season to give any solid imput, after I "Cool off" a bit I will pull this thread back up and try to contribute.
  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,580 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Varitek has this week to decide on a $3m, one year deal as back-up catcher. I suspect he'll take the deal, would be very surprised if he went into the free agent market.

    Paul...let go of the emotions, the season is ovah, can't change anything, gotta move foreward. Maybe a good noreaster and 2 feet of the white stuff in your drivewary will cool you down. image
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NESN says Varitek will take the $3 million player option, likely today. No doubt Jason wants to stick around...isn't Heidi Watney coming back too?

    Of course, if the Sox find a better back up catcher, they'll just pay him his money and cut him loose.
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    I agree. Varitek should take this option because I'm sure the same rules apply this year and he would be considered a "Type A" free agent which would mean that any team that would sign him would have to give the Red Sox two draft picks . . . which makes Varitek decidedly more expensive than the $4 or $5 million they would pay him.

    Speaking of Watney, I heard that she had moved on from The Captain to Nick Green. Did anyone else read that?
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    I just read that Varitek is now a Type B free agent which means that another team would only have to give the Red Sox 1 draft pick if they sign him.

    On the other hand, Bay and Wagner are both Type A free agents and we already know Wagner is going elsewhere. Picking him up last year could pay huge dividends down the line because of those draft picks.

    But I also read that the draft pick compensation is contingent on the team offering that player arbitration.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Varitek has exercised his $3 million option. At best, he is now the backup to V Mart. At worst, the Sox will release or trade him.
  • The Sox & SD have worked out trades well before so I have no doubt there will be talks about trying to get Gonzalez. Masterson would have been a good bargaining piece being from San Dog. But I have no qualms having picked up VMart for him. I know SD probably won't pull off that deal without either acquiring Bucholz or Bowden and a few others of course. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox try and slip in Lowell (paying a large part of his contract) in a potential SD deal.
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    I agree with that. If the Sox do trade for Adrian Gonzalez that would basically make either Lowell or Ortiz redundant so one of them would have to be dealt either in the deal that brings Gonzalez over or in a separate deal. I also agree that the Sox would probably end up having to pay most of their salary before anyone would accept them in a trade.
  • jdip9jdip9 Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭
    This may be sacriligious to say (especially as a season ticket holder), but I'm hoping the Sox do nothing in this off-season. I certainly don't want Lackey or Holliday, who proved he can't handle the AL, and certainly not the AL East. I'm ambivalent about Halladay, who might be starting his descent at this point. I'd be OK with him as long as they aren't on the hook for him beyond 2012.

    They've got a solid core signed or under control for the next 4 years (Buchholz, Bard, Ellsbury, Youk, Pedroia, Lester, Dice, likely Beckett and V-Mart). Maybe they catch some breaks and Ortiz hits 30/100, Drew 20/90 and Lowell 15/80, and they squeak into the playoffs. I'm not counting on any of those things, so I think they win 88-90 and fall short.

    I'm OK with taking a step back this year in order to gear up for free agency after the 2010 season, when the pickings will be better. Frankly, I think the Hermida move signals those same intentions this year by the Sox. Theo is already on record when he took the job saying that he trys to build a team that can make the playoffs 4 of every 5 years. 2010 may be one of the years they don't make it.

  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    That's a valid point.

    It does seem like a lot of the moves Theo has made over the last couple seasons were good financial moves (even if they weren't all great on the field) and it all seems to be lining up for the free agent market in 2010.

    It will be difficult to watch a mediocre 88-win season, but if there is some indication that they are reloading for the long haul that will definitely make the rebuilding more palatable.

    I do think that if the Red Sox sign Jason Bay and Ortiz hits like the post-slump Ortiz of 2009 that the Red Sox will be good enough to win the Wild Card again.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lots of contracts are off the table after 2010. I think they include:

    Lowell
    Ortiz
    Martinez
    Beckett

    That's got to be what, $40 million right there? I'd imagine the Sox are going to try to work an extension for Beckett and the same thing for Martinez. No such luck for Ortiz and Lowell, especially Ortiz at his current rate of pay. So if the Sox do extend Martinez and Beckett, they will have something leftover from the $25 million or so that they won't be paying to Lowell and Ortiz to do the extension AND pay for a free agent after 2010. Trade away Lowell this year and there's ten to twelve million available (maybe only 3-4 million if they eat some contract) for 2009. I think the Sox have some room to spend this offseason.

    I don't think Holliday would be bad in Fenway Park. He might actually do quite well at Fenway with its limited foul ground and scant ground to cover in left field. However, the Sox want to get better in the other 81 games of the year, and Holliday is not the answer there. Adrian Gonzalez is the one who can help them get better 162 games per year.

    And I think the Sox would rather pay someone like King Felix or Edwin Jackson (instead of Lackey) if they could work out a deal AFTER getting Gonzalez on the team. If the Sox are out of bullets after getting Gonzalez, I think Lackey would be perfect for their starting staff.
  • jdip9jdip9 Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭
    Lackey is decent, but here's my thing with him - on the Sox, he's a number 3 (or 4, depending on what you think of Dice-K's ability to bounce back next year), and he's going to be getting 5/$60m or something crazy like that this off-season. I'd rather use that money elsewhere next year.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    if they go the Lackey route, one thing they will strongly consider is his ability to get past the fifth, sixth, and often seventh, inning. Imagine having people like Lackey or Halladay in the rotation and giving the bullpen a day off (or nearly so) every so often.
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    Interestingly enough, if you go to Lackey's page on baseball-reference.com, Lackey's career numbers are most similar to Josh Beckett's.

    Lackey / Beckett comp
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Interestingly enough, if you go to Lackey's page on baseball-reference.com, Lackey's career numbers are most similar to Josh Beckett's.

    Lackey / Beckett comp >>



    that settles it, let's get Lackey and Halladay with John Henry's money, we owe it to ourselves image
  • KK Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭
    1. A solid defensive SS is a must! I personally liked Alex Gonzalez. His glove was fantastic and his bat was just an added bonus. Personally, for shortstops, I lean towards defense more than offense. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to bring Hanley Ramirez back, but we would have to give up too much to get him.

    2. We need a slugger over at first. I'd like to see Youk permanently moved to third with Lowell as a DH, and papi unfortunately needs to go. But at first we need a sure shot 30/100 guy. There is a kid down at AA ball, Lars Anderson, who shows a lot of promise with his bat. But I feel he needs another year to develop. Someone like Adrian Gonzalez whould be the perfect fit.


  • << <i>There is a kid down at AA ball, Lars Anderson, who shows a lot of promise with his bat. But I feel he needs another year to develop. Someone like Adrian Gonzalez whould be the perfect fit. >>

    I don't disagree. But if we bring in Gonzalez (current contract is through 2011) what then? Anderson is ready, still have a gold glove @3B, 1B and a promising player on the bench? I know Lowell will be gone by then and we'll have someone else filling the DH role - I don't want to move Anderson - he is very promising.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anderson really sucked this past year and I believe the Sox will move him if they have any reasonable return coming back. His OPS was abysmal, so if some other team wants him based on his potential, the Sox will take the offer.
  • Jed Hoyer has moved from the Red Sox front office to San Diego as their GM. The Sox and SD have worked well in deals in the past. Will this enhance the possibility of Hoyer trying to rebuild SD and sending Gonzalez to Fenway in exchange for some of the Sox prospects? I think the writing is on the proverbial wall for a deal to get done.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    anyone else quietly happy to hear that Jason Bay has declined the Red Sox offer and intends to pursue free agency? I hope the Sox put their money toward offense AND defense in one package.
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    I believe the offer the Red Sox made was more than fair given the current market. If someone (probably the Yankees) wants to pay him more than $15 million a year they should go for it.

    I like Bay and I wouldn't mind seeing him back in LF, but he's not the type of player worth hamstringing your club's future for (i.e. like what happened with JD Drew).

  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd rather the money go to lock up Beckett for an additional three years (no more) and extend Adrian Gonzalez (after THE trade, of course)
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    Who do you want to play LF for the Red Sox if not Bay? I guess if the Sox did land Adrian Gonzalez there could be some shifting of positions . . . but as it stands, we still need someone to play out there.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hermida can play there. Filling a corner outfield slot is an easy task. Upgrading the offense is the hard part, that's why I hope for the Gonzalez trade. He's an offensive upgrade compared to Bay.
  • Bay, imo, was offered fair market value. He will be second tier to Holliday as a LF this off season. Salaries simply can't keep climbing as they have in the past. We are probably headed for a work stoppage, but as far as Bay, if he would have accepted the offer, I'd be ok with him in LF for the next 4 years. At least he didn't drop a routine fly ball for the last out to end a playoff game....................
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    From Ken Rosenthal:

    "Red Sox weigh options for Lowell -- 11:02 p.m.
    The Red Sox not only are shopping third baseman Mike Lowell but also are willing to pay $6 million of his $12 million salary for next season, according to major-league sources.

    One rival executive, however, says he would be surprised if a team was willing to pay Lowell even $6 million.

    Lowell, 35, has appeared in only 113 and 119 games, respectively, the past two seasons. His right-hip issues have limited his range and he ranks as one of the worst defensive third basemen in the majors, advanced metrics say.

    While Lowell remains productive offensively, he benefited greatly from playing at Fenway Park last season, posting a .932 OPS at home and .713 OPS on the road.

    The Red Sox will need to trade Lowell if they acquire Padres first baseman Adrian Gonzalez in a trade and move Kevin Youkilis from first to third.

    The Sox also could look to replace Lowell even if they fail to land Gonzalez, perhaps by signing a free agent such as Adrian Beltre.

    Beltre, 30, is coming off an injury-marred season but rates as one of the game's top defensive third basemen. His career OPS, when adjusted for league and park, is only slightly lower than Lowell's."

  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    Dare we dream? The Sox are making a push to trade for perennial ace, Roy Halladay. The price is being reported as Clay Buchholz/Suchholz and Casy Kelly.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Dare we dream? The Sox are making a push to trade for perennial ace, Roy Halladay. The price is being reported as Clay Buchholz/Suchholz and Casy Kelly. >>



    The Sox would do that only if they could get Halladay to sign an extension of 3-5 years
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    I agree. I wonder if they could make a trade contigent upon being able to agree to terms with Halladay or do the rules prevent that sort of thing?
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I want Miggy Cabrera & Roy Halladay in Red Sox uniforms this upcoming season, and I want Lowell gone.


    BTW- Im still FREAKIN' HEATED about last season image
  • Hey Paul,

    It's about time you chimmed in on this thread..........as far as still being ticked - you must have seen a loss in the playoffs coming. They played below average down the stretch and just didn't seem to be playing in sync with each other. Having won it all twice seems to have softened the annual heart-ache I used to go through. Especially the pain of 03. Spring will be here soon enough for us to see the green grass, hear the crack of the bat and the pounding of the mitts. I can hardly wait already.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hey Paul,

    It's about time you chimmed in on this thread..........as far as still being ticked - you must have seen a loss in the playoffs coming. They played below average down the stretch and just didn't seem to be playing in sync with each other. Having won it all twice seems to have softened the annual heart-ache I used to go through. Especially the pain of 03. Spring will be here soon enough for us to see the green grass, hear the crack of the bat and the pounding of the mitts. I can hardly wait already. >>




    I know Im being a sore loser but to see the Yankees win it really annoys the crap out of me, actually what almost annoys me more is Theo Epstein & co the way they been handling this team the past two seasons. In '08 it was obvious we needed a bit more than what we had to make it, same with this year yet basically nothing was done to push us over the top- yea I knew we didnt have what it took so I wasnt "let down" per say because I didnt have that expectation that we were going to win it, I read in the Herald that Theo expects BIG THINGS out of Papi next year? Are you freaking kidding me? Are we going to count on Lowell this year too? Varitek? I know we cant have a stud in every position but these guys are washed up, and will not get us where we need to be. I know the salaries we owe these guys will make it tough but something needs to be done. Im completely OK with getting rid of some of the farm to get guys like Miggy Cabrera, Holliday or Halladay, and by the way I hope we dont sign Bay to a huge contract because I dont believe he will continue to produce at the level he did last year.

    And yes our 2 titles does help, I guess Im just dissapointed at the failure to take advantage of the oppurtunity we might have had the past two seasons.
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,470 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I want Miggy Cabrera & Roy Halladay in Red Sox uniforms this upcoming season, and I want Lowell gone.


    BTW- Im still FREAKIN' HEATED about last season image >>



    So am I -- if Pap did not blow that game, I think they would have come back to win the ALDS -- Francona did as well, which is why he was in utter shock after losing Game 3.

    I know the numbers maybe say trade him, but I think there is a decent chance Lowell will have a season in 2010 close to what he did in 2007, as his hip should be fully healed. I don't think they should move him if they cannot get Adrian Gonzalez, and I DON'T want Beltre. I know it's business to consider moving him, but I don't like how Red Sox fans are trashing Lowell after all he did for the team -- and he tried his best to play (and played hurt) with those injuries. If it were JD Blew, he would have played 60 games each year in 2008 and 2009 instead of 120.

    I would rather they move Papi than Lowell. I think Lowell would hit .300 at DH, and I think there is a good chance Papi will suck the ENTIRE year instead of April and May. But it will probably be much harder to move Papi unless they find a sucker (and, unfortunately, the Mets are in the NL).
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't want to see Miguel Cabrera on the Sox. He has liability issues with his fielding and his personal behavior. Plus, he is owed a boatload of money. The Sox would be better off dumping that money into Adrian Gonzalez, who is a better human being and fielder, and arguably an equal to better hitter.

    I'm still in favor of losing Papelblown too. Have been for at least the last two seasons
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the Jays have just thrown a monkey wrench into Boston's "back up plan" for SS by signing Alex Gonzalez to a one year contract. Sure hope Theo has a replacement in mind...not that ANYONE available will be as good a fielder.
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    I'm with Barndog on Miguel Cabrera. He put up huge offensive numbers last year, but I would be really concerned about two other huge numbers: his $ and his lbs.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm with Barndog on Miguel Cabrera. He put up huge offensive numbers last year, but I would be really concerned about two other huge numbers: his $ and his lbs. >>





    No need to be concerned, his weight has always been an issue yet he is still one of the most consistent hitters in the majors, yea he got drunk & argued with his wife at the end of last season big deal..

    Compare him to big Tex of the Yankees, we would be getting pretty much the same type of hitter except a better avg.


    Again Halladay + Miggy = far better chance at a World Series!
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,470 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>the Jays have just thrown a monkey wrench into Boston's "back up plan" for SS by signing Alex Gonzalez to a one year contract. Sure hope Theo has a replacement in mind...not that ANYONE available will be as good a fielder. >>



    No worries -- Jed Lousy is poised for a break-out season! image
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>the Jays have just thrown a monkey wrench into Boston's "back up plan" for SS by signing Alex Gonzalez to a one year contract. Sure hope Theo has a replacement in mind...not that ANYONE available will be as good a fielder. >>



    No worries -- Jed Lousy is poised for a break-out season! image >>



    optimism can be humorous!
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I predict the Sox do not sign Jason Bay. I think they can get strikeouts and lousy fielding elsewhere. Wherever he goes, I hope pitchers continue to throw him fastballs so he can keep his numbers up.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pedroia asked about playing shortstop

    as is typical with Pedroia, he says he can do it better than Jeter
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    Haha!!!! I love it.

    "When the idea of moving back to shortstop was floated to me, I welcomed it," Pedroia said. "I'm excited. Tell Derek [Jeter] to enjoy the gold glove and silver slugger awards while he can."

    If Pedroia does move to SS for the season, that could open the door for bringing Dan Uggla in to play 2nd base. I had already read rumors about the potential of the Sox signing Uggla to play 3B or LF for them anyway.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    boston.com says the Sox just signed Scutaro (two years plus option) pending a physical. scuse me if I'm not excited.
  • Career platoon player who finally got a chance to start @ 33 and made the best of it with a good year......................having said that, I'm still not too excited, he'll be in his mid 30's and that's no time to kick start your career in baseball. I only hope he can come close to last years numbers, he should be able to with a better offense behind him. Where do you think Tito will stick him in the line-up? I'm thinking 9th - that's not headlines in my book.
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,470 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>boston.com says the Sox just signed Scutaro (two years plus option) pending a physical. scuse me if I'm not excited. >>



    Agreed. Just the latest overpaid bust at shortstop - I would rather they kept A-Gon (yes, Toronto is better off now). Theo should delegate shortstop decisions to Jed Hoyer.
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,470 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i><<"When the idea of moving back to shortstop was floated to me, I welcomed it," Pedroia said. "I'm excited. Tell Derek [Jeter] to enjoy the gold glove and silver slugger awards while he can.">>

    Awfully big talk for a guy whose best ever offensive season amounts to what Jeter has averaged over a 14 year career. >>




    Not surprising at all. When you are 5'6" on a good day, you need a lot of self confidence just to even make it to the Big Leagues.
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