There just aren't that many Barber Quarter collectors out there who collect by date.
What we are seeing with 1909-O Barber quarters is supply driven prices.The mintage is relatively low.Most of the coins circulated,few were saved.One could buy his sweetheart and himself an ice cream cone and get change back in 1909. If I have one in inventory that survived being circulated extensively and sell it,how much is it going to cost me to replace it now that my inventory of 1909-O quarters has gone from 1 to 0?
Possible replacement cost is a major consideration for the savvy coin dealer.If I "buck the guides" by pricing my 1909-O quarter on the high side for say up to twice what the guide says the piece is worth,then I risk keeping the coin in my inventory for a long time.The upside is that I am keeping something good,something out of the ordinary,so I know there will eventually be serious interest in my 1909-O along with little resistance to my asking price.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
a friend of mine just consigned a NGC VF-35 CAC (very nice original a with great eye-appeal) 09-o to ian , should be coming up in a few weeks. I just got the damn coin for him like 5 months ago, but he is one of these people that gets more thrill buying stuff than hanging on to it for a while.
<< <i>From the photos, a grade above 50 doesn't seem impossible. Will check it out in hand at the show, but even at the current price, even if I thought it could go 55 I'd be out! >>
I took at look at the coin at Heritage lot viewing but didn't spend a lot of time with it since I knew I would not be a buyer. My first thought was that it had the general look of a coin that should grade AU53 or AU55, but there was a pretty significant scratch on the obverse and a couple of others that were also noticeable. I think it may have been net graded to AU50. In any event, the 1909-O quarter in PCGS AU50 coin sold earlier today for $3525!!!
From the pictures (yes I know how horrible HA pictures can be) it looks like an ugly coin. A good friend of mine bought an XF45 on this very forum that, in my honest opinion, takes the cake compared to this coin in eye appeal. And he paid about 1300 less.
I know the "pedigree" of that 50; congrats to previous owner ! (Although he did not get made whole) If you check the HA archives, you will se that PC50 is the same coin that sold some 2 yrs ago as an NGC50... I know the person who successfully crossed it It sold for $1645 in the NGC holder: link to NGC50 It is ALL about the plastic I had the coin in hand for a week and didn't like it at all And if you go back to The Original Barber Mega Thread you will find a half dozen members or more chimed in about the coin being pasty, totally unoriginal etc... Has the coin changed in 2 years? Comments about this coin previous to it's sale in the NGC50 holder - Nov 2012
a friend of mine just consigned a NGC VF-35 CAC (very nice original a with great eye-appeal) 09-o to ian , should be coming up in a few weeks. I just got the damn coin for him like 5 months ago, but he is one of these people that gets more thrill buying stuff than hanging on to it for a while. >>
I would say its around a $1400 - $1500 coin. I would do it BIN / Make Offer with BIN 1500 and I would take 1400.
Quality Barbers are tough to find and I have to pay thru the nose to get them for want list customers. Consequently mine are priced cost+ a modest commission and price guide price may be too low IMO. Perhaps one should shop around on this as its very close to XF Money (CW TRends XF40 = 2000).
It probably would be the only one in the bourse room so you either will pay the dealers price or go home without it. These aren't some 1881-S Dollar you can walk over to the next table and buy at bid.
Someone had one at the ANA Chicago show. PCGS 30 IIRC. Asked the price, they said $3200. That's pretty much over the Moon and Galaxy money. Not worth even close to that no matter how short the supply!
Repost as my previous edit sat in limbo for 5 hours
I know the "pedigree" of that 50; congrats to previous owner ! (Although he did not get made whole) If you check the HA archives, you will se that PC50 is the same coin that sold some 2 yrs ago as an NGC50... I know the person who successfully crossed it It sold for $1645 in the NGC holder: link to NGC50 It is ALL about the plastic I had the coin in hand for a week and didn't like it at all And if you go back to The Barber Mega Thread II you will find a half dozen members or more chimed in about the coin being pasty, totally unoriginal etc... Has the coin changed in 2 years? Comments about this coin previous to it's sale in the NGC50 holder - Nov 2012
Looks like 2 people just had to have it. It's not exactly a killer FINE and it has been through the wash at least once. I can think of some neat XF/AU "O" and "S" mints (1896-1904) I'd rather own for my $600.
There's 4 PCGS fines 12-15 on eBay right now for $405-575. I hope the buyer of the linked coin enjoys it to the fullest. That's what it's all about! Always enjoy this thread revival.
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
I usually don't bump threads, but the passing of time has caused the PCGS guide to catch up with values. My original link is long dead, but it was for a PCGS VF-25 example for $625. Here are the guide prices for the circulated grades now:
Good to see - just makes this one that much more valuable, but probably only to me, since it's genny kind of coin suited for an album. I posted it around two years ago, right after buying it at a small local show for around $80. I've had it sitting in an old wooden drawer and its gotten a little grayer over time, but here are the original pics.
<< <i>I usually don't bump threads, but the passing of time has caused the PCGS guide to catch up with values. My original link is long dead, but it was for a PCGS VF-25 example for $625. Here are the guide prices for the circulated grades now:
Wonder what the trend will be over the next few years? Now I wish I bought one back in the day. >>
Yeah, they've slowly been bumping the prices over the last few years, but at the rate they are doing so, it'll still be several years before they catch up to where the market it today, especially at the higher end of that scale. For example, a PCGS VF35 is worth well over $1000... probably should be $1700-$2000 in the guide today. I know of at least one that has sold in that range and another being offered in that range. I sold another example in VF35 last week just under that range because I was lucky to get it cheap, though I certainly could have held out for $1700 or so and I'm sure I would have eventually gotten it.
And in XF45/AU50, the prices listed above should probably be tripled.
<< <i>....Yeah, they've slowly been bumping the prices over the last few years, but at the rate they are doing so, it'll still be several years before they catch up to where the market it today, especially at the higher end of that scale. For example, a PCGS VF35 is worth well over $1000... probably should be $1700-$2000 in the guide today. I know of at least one that has sold in that range and another being offered in that range. I sold another example in VF35 last week just under that range because I was lucky to get it cheap, though I certainly could have held out for $1700 or so and I'm sure I would have eventually gotten it.
And in XF45/AU50, the prices listed above should probably be tripled. >>
Does this mean that XF/AU specimens are now worth more than the fairly available MS62-MS63 specimens?
It would always concern me that there is an overhang of hundreds of MS coins from original rolls.
<< <i>....Yeah, they've slowly been bumping the prices over the last few years, but at the rate they are doing so, it'll still be several years before they catch up to where the market it today, especially at the higher end of that scale. For example, a PCGS VF35 is worth well over $1000... probably should be $1700-$2000 in the guide today. I know of at least one that has sold in that range and another being offered in that range. I sold another example in VF35 last week just under that range because I was lucky to get it cheap, though I certainly could have held out for $1700 or so and I'm sure I would have eventually gotten it.
And in XF45/AU50, the prices listed above should probably be tripled. >>
Does this mean that XF/AU specimens are now worth more than the fairly available MS62-MS63 specimens?
They are bringing mega bucks also!
It would always concern me that there is an overhang of hundreds of MS coins from original rolls. >>
Just like you might find a BU roll of 70-CC quarters? A little dramatic but you catch my drift!
<< <i>... Just like you might find a BU roll of 70-CC quarters? A little dramatic but you catch my drift! >>
I don't catch that drift at all. There are at most a couple unc 70-cc quarters known. There are probably hundreds of unc 1909-0 Barber quarters. When I was searching for choice and gem unc Barber quarters at auctions in the 1980's the 1909-0 showed up as often (or more often) than most of these other scarcer O, S, and D mints: 95-s, 98-s. 96-0, 97-0, 98-0, 98-s, 99-0, 99-s, 00-0, 00-s, 01-0, 02-s, 05-0, 05-s, 06-0, 07-d, 07-s 08-s, 09-s, 10-d, 11-d, 11-s, 14-s. Now if the 09-0 was plenty available in those days, what makes it "rare" today in unc? There certainly aren't very many Barber quarter set builders in the MS61-MS63 range. There are more BU 1909-O's than there are set builders. The odds of finding a fresh BU roll of 09-0 quarters is at least possible....as rolls were saved from day 1 of most Barber quarter dates. A friend of mine was reviewing an estate about 10 years ago and ran across 2 fresh BU rolls of 1889-cc dollars. Stuff can still be "found" out there. In his writings back in the 1980's or so Dave Bowers mentioned the existence of unbroken Barber quarter roll sets (including the rare S mints). Have to wonder if any of those sets are still unbroken?
The 09-0 is nothing ultra-special or "rare" when it comes to unc O-mints. The unc 09-0's get an undeserved price bump for having a low mintage....lower than all the other O mints. But clearly, some of those others with 2X to 4X the mintages are actually as scarce or even rarer in unc. That's probably due to 09-0 being last year of the NO mint and a higher % of the mintage being saved in BU condition. The fact that lower grade MS 1909-0 Barber quarters are getting a big boost in price because the F-AU circs are scarce is quite ironic. Here's an example of the circ set builders driving unc prices up. No one thought to save XF/AU 1909-0 Barber quarters during WW1 or the 1920's/1930's. But someone was smart to save some unc rolls early on. I can't speak to the availability of VF-AU 1909-o Barber quarters back in the 1970's and 1980's as I wasn't looking for them. It's certainly possible that the date has been hoarded where several strong hands hold a significant portion of the F-AU coins.
If I were just a "dumb" hoarder starting out in the 1980's looking for some area of the market to corner where specimens didn't cost an arm and a leg, the 1909-o 25c might fit that bill. After all, it has the lowest NO mintage by far....so it MUST be the rarest and the best, right? Could the 09-o be like the 1844 dime where >600 specimens were amassed by a single hoarder over many years (mintage a piddly 72K)? I can't think of many other seated coins with a mintage of 72,000 or less, and >1% of the mintage surviving. The 1857-s quarter might come close but I doubt it. One almost has to wonder if the orig mintage of the 1844 dime is even correct? Is the published mintage of the 1909-0 quarter accurate?
After reading roadrunner's analysis, I'd bet you a dollar that someone has hoarded Unc. 1909-o quarters. If so, much numismatic pain will result when they are released. Just recall what happened to the price of 1804 quarters and 1844 dimes when the hoards broke up.
Is there a logical explanation as to why "just the 1909-0 quarter" seems to have a very low surviving pop in Fine-AU? A mintage of >700,000 is still plenty of coins to have to get rid of over the years. Some of the coins in the 1896-1899 group might be comparable (96-0, 97-s, 97-0, 98-s for starters). But why nothing else from the 1900-1909 run? Why just the 09-0? Why not the 09-0 dime? I did always notice in the 1970's and 1980's that the unc 1909 branch mint Barber coins were somewhat underrated. In fact my super sleeper of the 1970's was to find all the choice and gem unc 1909-s Barber dimes I could. I only found one...and sold it into the 1980 market highs. 1909-d and 1909-0 dimes were also interesting. So were the 1909-0 halves. But even back then, the 09-0 and 09-s dimes caught my eye much more than the 09-0 quarter. With all the hoarding on 1909 Lincoln cents you'd think that the Barber silver coins would have been saved in larger numbers, especially the New Orleans mint coins since this was the last year. But how can you explain the lack of quality 1909-0 circ quarters....or 1909 silver coinage in general? No earthquakes like in 1906. And even then S mint coinage of 1906 is not hard to locate....it's actually the following year in 1907 where a bunch of sleeper S, O, and D mint coins appear. Then 1908 was a boom year where nothing is a sleeper. Then on to 1909 where sleepers occur again. Nothing really in 1910-1912 either.
Interesting that Rhedden mentioned the 1804 quarter too. When doing my research in the old days I found the 1804 quarter appeared a bit too often for my tastes, esp. considering its strong price tag (mintage 6,738). The 1804 25c probably has a survival rate in the 3-5% range which is huge. Most better date seated quarters fall into the 0.2 to 1.0% range. There were many other better date quarters to go after that didn't have real low mintages....yet just didn't show up. The 1804 dime with just over 8,000 minted showed up a lot less often than the quarter back in the 1970's. The dime was a much better value...even with the "higher" mintage. I frequently mention the 1872-s quarter with 83,000 minted...survival rate in the weeds at <0.2% (100-150 coins)....and a higher mintage than the 1844 dime....and literally 6X to 8X rarer. Mintages down mean everything....and sometimes they mean nothing.
<< <i>... Just like you might find a BU roll of 70-CC quarters? A little dramatic but you catch my drift! >>
I don't catch that drift at all. There are at most a couple unc 70-cc quarters known. There are probably hundreds of unc 1909-0 Barber quarters. When I was searching for choice and gem unc Barber quarters at auctions in the 1980's the 1909-0 showed up as often (or more often) than most of these other scarcer O, S, and D mints: 95-s, 98-s. 96-0, 97-0, 98-0, 98-s, 99-0, 99-s, 00-0, 00-s, 01-0, 02-s, 05-0, 05-s, 06-0, 07-d, 07-s 08-s, 09-s, 10-d, 11-d, 11-s, 14-s. Now if the 09-0 was plenty available in those days, what makes it "rare" today in unc? There certainly aren't very many Barber quarter set builders in the MS61-MS63 range. There are more BU 1909-O's than there are set builders. The odds of finding a fresh BU roll of 09-0 quarters is at least possible....as rolls were saved from day 1 of most Barber quarter dates. A friend of mine was reviewing an estate about 10 years ago and ran across 2 fresh BU rolls of 1889-cc dollars. Stuff can still be "found" out there. In his writings back in the 1980's or so Dave Bowers mentioned the existence of unbroken Barber quarter roll sets (including the rare S mints). Have to wonder if any of those sets are still unbroken?
The 09-0 is nothing ultra-special or "rare" when it comes to unc O-mints. The unc 09-0's get an undeserved price bump for having a low mintage....lower than all the other O mints. But clearly, some of those others with 2X to 4X the mintages are actually as scarce or even rarer in unc. That's probably due to 09-0 being last year of the NO mint and a higher % of the mintage being saved in BU condition. The fact that lower grade MS 1909-0 Barber quarters are getting a big boost in price because the F-AU circs are scarce is quite ironic. Here's an example of the circ set builders driving unc prices up. No one thought to save XF/AU 1909-0 Barber quarters during WW1 or the 1920's/1930's. But someone was smart to save some unc rolls early on. I can't speak to the availability of VF-AU 1909-o Barber quarters back in the 1970's and 1980's as I wasn't looking for them. It's certainly possible that the date has been hoarded where several strong hands hold a significant portion of the F-AU coins.
If I were just a "dumb" hoarder starting out in the 1980's looking for some area of the market to corner where specimens didn't cost an arm and a leg, the 1909-o 25c might fit that bill. After all, it has the lowest NO mintage by far....so it MUST be the rarest and the best, right? Could the 09-o be like the 1844 dime where >600 specimens were amassed by a single hoarder over many years (mintage a piddly 72K)? I can't think of many other seated coins with a mintage of 72,000 or less, and >1% of the mintage surviving. The 1857-s quarter might come close but I doubt it. One almost has to wonder if the orig mintage of the 1844 dime is even correct? Is the published mintage of the 1909-0 quarter accurate? >>
You had me curious so I took a peek at the PCGS POP report. Out of your long list of quarters that are rarer (or should I say less seen by you) than the 09-O 3 decades ago there are only 4 that have a lower Pop in MS. The majority have much higher populations...the extreme being the 06-O with a POP of 162 in MS! There have been 50 09-O's graded MS. There is no explanation but if there are hundreds of MS 09-O's out their I fail to see how this market hasn't shaken some of them loose.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I believe it could be a very interesting discussion!
<< <i>....You had me curious so I took a peek at the PCGS POP report. Out of your long list of quarters that are rarer (or should I say less seen by you) than the 09-O 3 decades ago there are only 4 that have a lower Pop in MS. The majority have much higher populations...the extreme being the 06-O with a POP of 162 in MS! There have been 50 09-O's graded MS. There is no explanation but if there are hundreds of MS 09-O's out their I fail to see how this market hasn't shaken some of them loose.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I believe it could be a very interesting discussion! >>
I can't explain it either. The 09-0 was seen as often as those other dates in the both the 1970's and 1980's. It doesn't make sense to me that up to 1990 all the dealers and top collectors who were following choice and gem Barber quarters got it all wrong on the 1909-0. How can you get it "wrong" on the by far lowest mintage "O" mint? Usually, a low mintage implies some extra hoarding near time of issue. The 1896-0 and 1897-0 were dealer and collector favorites in the 1988-1990 market....so much so that I felt they went for too much money compared to all the other O mints. Sure, pull the 06-0 25c out of that list. It was one of losers. There will always be coins that don't stand up to scrutiny over time.
Hard to say what can shake things loose. I was watching my favorite seated coins from 1975-2002 and the market didn't "shake them loose." It wasn't until 2004-2008 that things really changed. It took 30 years on coins that have been around for up to 200 years! Hard to believe that considering how over-focused collectors and investors have been on mintages for the past 100 years, that they just forgot about the 1909-0 quarter. It wouldn't have been hard to systematically hoard all the decent coins over the past 20-40 years. No doubt sharp Barber collectors have been doing that for the better date VF-AU circs. Seated collectors certainly did that from 1974-2004. Then boom....everyone noticed there were few coins in the market place and up prices went. I still think that potentially 50-80% of the better date and underrated seated (and possibly Barber) coins still survive uncounted in mini-hoards. The pop reports might list as few as 20-40% of what is still out there in grades of F-AU. Hoards of 1844 dimes, 1870-cc halves, 1801/1802 halves, 1839-0 halves, etc. were and still are out there. I have no idea if any of it applies to the 1909-0 Barber quarter. The 09-0 does have the advantage of using the 1896-s, 1901-s and 1913-s coins for cover. I often thought about hoarding all the available specimens on a number of better date unc seated quarters. And I could have easily done it. In one case there were only 6-8 uncs and I had to chance to buy most every one of those quite cheaply (I did buy the finest known though). I knew that hoarding them was a "can't lose" proposition. On the ones I passed on they advanced in price 8X over 20 years. Have always kicked myself for not doing that when I knew there was huge upside...and literally no downside.
You can't win them all. I stick with the coins that were scarce in the 1970's and 1980's....and still holding their places today. Some things can easily slip by. But MS63-MS65 dated seated, barber, standing liberty, and washington quarters shouldn't be one of them. I can see the circs slipping by because the collector markets don't get as hyped as the investor/REG set coin markets.
I'm not for one digging up old threads (this one is mine!), but I do see an $1800 price tag for this date on CoinFacts vs. the $400 price that was there a decade ago.
So is the 1909-O date still hot, especially in nice circulated condition? Are they any easier to find than they were a decade ago? That world seems so long ago now, especially with some of the posters that have vanished or passed on (RIP MFH).
While I believe @amwldcoin deals mainly with Barber halves, ( have you see his show cases at a show?) ,
he might best be able to enlighten us on this question.
Edit to add...I would say they are harder to find now than they were 10 years ago. It's no longer a sleeper!
@Tibor said:
While I believe @amwldcoin deals mainly with Barber halves, ( have you see his show cases at a show?) ,
he might best be able to enlighten us on this question.
Great to see Mike’s comments in this thread. Bittersweet, but still nice. We miss you Mike.
I paid $175 for an ANACS VF25 09-0 in Dec 1999 (Teletrade). Finally crossed it to PCGS about two years ago. They bumped it up to VF30. Just a fantastic example. I’ll see if I can get a pic, and post it here.
When I go to major shows I always looks for them in VF-XF. I see a few certified pieces here and there. but they aren’t usually very nice. Cheaper ones have been dipped white. If you find a nice dirty VF20, it will cost you close to a G. Tough in original condition. Just a great date!
Dave
Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
@Dave99B said:
Great to see Mike’s comments in this thread. Bittersweet, but still nice. We miss you Mike.
I paid $175 for an ANACS VF25 09-0 in Dec 1999 (Teletrade). Finally crossed it to PCGS about two years ago. They bumped it up to VF30. Just a fantastic example. I’ll see if I can get a pic, and post it here.
When I go to major shows I always looks for them in VF-XF. I see a few certified pieces here and there. but they aren’t usually very nice. Cheaper ones have been dipped white. If you find a nice dirty VF20, it will cost you close to a G. Tough in original condition. Just a great date!
Dave
Yes, Mike is still alive in our hearts.
He's the one that got me interested in Barber coinage, and got me reading the Barber (now Mike Hayes) thread.
Back to the 09O - I'm not nearly as active as before, but recall seldom ever seeing that coin at shows in mid-grade (example posted years ago was the rare exception), along with the 97S. A tough coin in a very tough series.
@ElmerFusterpuck said:
I usually don't bump threads, but the passing of time has caused the PCGS guide to catch up with values. My original link is long dead, but it was for a PCGS VF-25 example for $625. Here are the guide prices for the circulated grades now:
Wonder what the trend will be over the next few years? Now I wish I bought one back in the day.
Old thread alert! RIP Mike, you were an asset to the forum for sure. Meanwhile, here are some updated values for the 1909-O, guess it's still a hot date and not a cheap one! Prices from above are from 2015, looks like the higher the grade the bigger percentage increase.
Comments
What we are seeing with 1909-O Barber quarters is supply driven prices.The mintage is relatively low.Most of the coins circulated,few were saved.One could buy his sweetheart and himself an ice cream cone and get change back in 1909. If I have one in inventory that survived being circulated extensively and sell it,how much is it going to cost me to replace it now that my inventory of 1909-O quarters has gone from 1 to 0?
Possible replacement cost is a major consideration for the savvy coin dealer.If I "buck the guides" by pricing my 1909-O quarter on the high side for say up to twice what the guide says
the piece is worth,then I risk keeping the coin in my inventory for a long time.The upside is that I am keeping something good,something out of the ordinary,so I know there will eventually be serious interest in my 1909-O along with little resistance to my asking price.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
a friend of mine just consigned a NGC VF-35 CAC (very nice original a with great eye-appeal) 09-o to ian , should be coming up in a few weeks. I just got the damn coin for him like 5 months ago, but he is one of these people that gets more thrill buying stuff than hanging on to it for a while.
<< <i>From the photos, a grade above 50 doesn't seem impossible. Will check it out in hand at the show, but even at the current price, even if I thought it could go 55 I'd be out! >>
I took at look at the coin at Heritage lot viewing but didn't spend a lot of time with it since I knew I would not be a buyer. My first thought was that it had the general look of a coin that should grade AU53 or AU55, but there was a pretty significant scratch on the obverse and a couple of others that were also noticeable. I think it may have been net graded to AU50. In any event, the 1909-O quarter in PCGS AU50 coin sold earlier today for $3525!!!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
If you check the HA archives, you will se that PC50 is the same coin that sold some 2 yrs ago as an NGC50... I know the person who successfully crossed it
It sold for $1645 in the NGC holder: link to NGC50
It is ALL about the plastic
I had the coin in hand for a week and didn't like it at all
And if you go back to The Original Barber Mega Thread you will find a half dozen members or more chimed in about the coin being pasty, totally unoriginal etc... Has the coin changed in 2 years?
Comments about this coin previous to it's sale in the NGC50 holder - Nov 2012
<< <i>For those interested
a friend of mine just consigned a NGC VF-35 CAC (very nice original a with great eye-appeal) 09-o to ian , should be coming up in a few weeks. I just got the damn coin for him like 5 months ago, but he is one of these people that gets more thrill buying stuff than hanging on to it for a while. >>
This it?
http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/213300/1909-O-Barber-Quarter-NGC-VF-35-CAC
Was purchased from Liz about 5-6 Months ago, we got it cac'd later.
Quality Barbers are tough to find and I have to pay thru the nose to get them for want list customers. Consequently mine are priced cost+ a modest commission and price guide price may be too low IMO. Perhaps one should shop around on this as its very close to XF Money (CW TRends XF40 = 2000).
It probably would be the only one in the bourse room so you either will pay the dealers price or go home without it. These aren't some 1881-S Dollar you can walk over to the next table and buy at bid.
<< <i>Yes it is,
Was purchased from Liz about 5-6 Months ago, we got it cac'd later. >>
Hope your customer does well with it. Nice.
I know the "pedigree" of that 50; congrats to previous owner ! (Although he did not get made whole)
If you check the HA archives, you will se that PC50 is the same coin that sold some 2 yrs ago as an NGC50... I know the person who successfully crossed it
It sold for $1645 in the NGC holder: link to NGC50
It is ALL about the plastic
I had the coin in hand for a week and didn't like it at all
And if you go back to The Barber Mega Thread II you will find a half dozen members or more chimed in about the coin being pasty, totally unoriginal etc... Has the coin changed in 2 years?
Comments about this coin previous to it's sale in the NGC50 holder - Nov 2012
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
<< <i>I am just curious what do you think of this barber i saw on ebay?
>>
I don't think it is a 1909-O
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
LINK
Just over double the PCGS Price Guide price.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I hope the buyer of the linked coin enjoys it to the fullest. That's what it's all about!
Always enjoy this thread revival.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-O-US-Barber-Silver-Quarter-25C-PCGS-AU58-Full-Strike-Luster-/371256586857?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56709df269
<< <i>1 of the 3 in 58 comes out of hiding:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-O-US-Barber-Silver-Quarter-25C-PCGS-AU58-Full-Strike-Luster-/371256586857?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56709df269 >>
Looks like it sold a few minutes after your post... $5200! (That's almost four times the PCGS Price Guide Price of $1350 for an AU58!)
Are you the lucky new owner?
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>...Are you the lucky new owner?
Nope!
Price Grade
850 - VF-20
900 - VF-25
950 - VF-30
1,000 - VF-35
1,100 - XF-40
1,200 - XF-45
1,300 - AU-50
Wonder what the trend will be over the next few years? Now I wish I bought one back in the day.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
an album.
I posted it around two years ago, right after buying it at a small local show for around $80. I've had it sitting in an old
wooden drawer and its gotten a little grayer over time, but here are the original pics.
<< <i>I usually don't bump threads, but the passing of time has caused the PCGS guide to catch up with values. My original link is long dead, but it was for a PCGS VF-25 example for $625. Here are the guide prices for the circulated grades now:
Price Grade
850 - VF-20
900 - VF-25
950 - VF-30
1,000 - VF-35
1,100 - XF-40
1,200 - XF-45
1,300 - AU-50
Wonder what the trend will be over the next few years? Now I wish I bought one back in the day. >>
Yeah, they've slowly been bumping the prices over the last few years, but at the rate they are doing so, it'll still be several years before they catch up to where the market it today, especially at the higher end of that scale. For example, a PCGS VF35 is worth well over $1000... probably should be $1700-$2000 in the guide today. I know of at least one that has sold in that range and another being offered in that range. I sold another example in VF35 last week just under that range because I was lucky to get it cheap, though I certainly could have held out for $1700 or so and I'm sure I would have eventually gotten it.
And in XF45/AU50, the prices listed above should probably be tripled.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>....Yeah, they've slowly been bumping the prices over the last few years, but at the rate they are doing so, it'll still be several years before they catch up to where the market it today, especially at the higher end of that scale. For example, a PCGS VF35 is worth well over $1000... probably should be $1700-$2000 in the guide today. I know of at least one that has sold in that range and another being offered in that range. I sold another example in VF35 last week just under that range because I was lucky to get it cheap, though I certainly could have held out for $1700 or so and I'm sure I would have eventually gotten it.
And in XF45/AU50, the prices listed above should probably be tripled. >>
Does this mean that XF/AU specimens are now worth more than the fairly available MS62-MS63 specimens?
It would always concern me that there is an overhang of hundreds of MS coins from original rolls.
<< <i>
<< <i>....Yeah, they've slowly been bumping the prices over the last few years, but at the rate they are doing so, it'll still be several years before they catch up to where the market it today, especially at the higher end of that scale. For example, a PCGS VF35 is worth well over $1000... probably should be $1700-$2000 in the guide today. I know of at least one that has sold in that range and another being offered in that range. I sold another example in VF35 last week just under that range because I was lucky to get it cheap, though I certainly could have held out for $1700 or so and I'm sure I would have eventually gotten it.
And in XF45/AU50, the prices listed above should probably be tripled. >>
Does this mean that XF/AU specimens are now worth more than the fairly available MS62-MS63 specimens?
They are bringing mega bucks also!
It would always concern me that there is an overhang of hundreds of MS coins from original rolls. >>
Just like you might find a BU roll of 70-CC quarters?
<< <i>... Just like you might find a BU roll of 70-CC quarters?
I don't catch that drift at all. There are at most a couple unc 70-cc quarters known. There are probably hundreds of unc 1909-0 Barber quarters. When I was searching for choice and gem unc Barber quarters at auctions in the 1980's the 1909-0 showed up as often (or more often) than most of these other scarcer O, S, and D mints: 95-s, 98-s. 96-0, 97-0, 98-0, 98-s, 99-0, 99-s, 00-0, 00-s, 01-0, 02-s, 05-0, 05-s, 06-0, 07-d, 07-s 08-s, 09-s, 10-d, 11-d, 11-s, 14-s. Now if the 09-0 was plenty available in those days, what makes it "rare" today in unc? There certainly aren't very many Barber quarter set builders in the MS61-MS63 range. There are more BU 1909-O's than there are set builders. The odds of finding a fresh BU roll of 09-0 quarters is at least possible....as rolls were saved from day 1 of most Barber quarter dates. A friend of mine was reviewing an estate about 10 years ago and ran across 2 fresh BU rolls of 1889-cc dollars. Stuff can still be "found" out there. In his writings back in the 1980's or so Dave Bowers mentioned the existence of unbroken Barber quarter roll sets (including the rare S mints). Have to wonder if any of those sets are still unbroken?
The 09-0 is nothing ultra-special or "rare" when it comes to unc O-mints. The unc 09-0's get an undeserved price bump for having a low mintage....lower than all the other O mints. But clearly, some of those others with 2X to 4X the mintages are actually as scarce or even rarer in unc. That's probably due to 09-0 being last year of the NO mint and a higher % of the mintage being saved in BU condition. The fact that lower grade MS 1909-0 Barber quarters are getting a big boost in price because the F-AU circs are scarce is quite ironic. Here's an example of the circ set builders driving unc prices up. No one thought to save XF/AU 1909-0 Barber quarters during WW1 or the 1920's/1930's. But someone was smart to save some unc rolls early on. I can't speak to the availability of VF-AU 1909-o Barber quarters back in the 1970's and 1980's as I wasn't looking for them. It's certainly possible that the date has been hoarded where several strong hands hold a significant portion of the F-AU coins.
If I were just a "dumb" hoarder starting out in the 1980's looking for some area of the market to corner where specimens didn't cost an arm and a leg, the 1909-o 25c might fit that bill. After all, it has the lowest NO mintage by far....so it MUST be the rarest and the best, right? Could the 09-o be like the 1844 dime where >600 specimens were amassed by a single hoarder over many years (mintage a piddly 72K)? I can't think of many other seated coins with a mintage of 72,000 or less, and >1% of the mintage surviving. The 1857-s quarter might come close but I doubt it. One almost has to wonder if the orig mintage of the 1844 dime is even correct? Is the published mintage of the 1909-0 quarter accurate?
Interesting that Rhedden mentioned the 1804 quarter too. When doing my research in the old days I found the 1804 quarter appeared a bit too often for my tastes, esp. considering its strong price tag (mintage 6,738). The 1804 25c probably has a survival rate in the 3-5% range which is huge. Most better date seated quarters fall into the 0.2 to 1.0% range. There were many other better date quarters to go after that didn't have real low mintages....yet just didn't show up. The 1804 dime with just over 8,000 minted showed up a lot less often than the quarter back in the 1970's. The dime was a much better value...even with the "higher" mintage. I frequently mention the 1872-s quarter with 83,000 minted...survival rate in the weeds at <0.2% (100-150 coins)....and a higher mintage than the 1844 dime....and literally 6X to 8X rarer. Mintages down mean everything....and sometimes they mean nothing.
<< <i>
<< <i>... Just like you might find a BU roll of 70-CC quarters?
I don't catch that drift at all. There are at most a couple unc 70-cc quarters known. There are probably hundreds of unc 1909-0 Barber quarters. When I was searching for choice and gem unc Barber quarters at auctions in the 1980's the 1909-0 showed up as often (or more often) than most of these other scarcer O, S, and D mints: 95-s, 98-s. 96-0, 97-0, 98-0, 98-s, 99-0, 99-s, 00-0, 00-s, 01-0, 02-s, 05-0, 05-s, 06-0, 07-d, 07-s 08-s, 09-s, 10-d, 11-d, 11-s, 14-s. Now if the 09-0 was plenty available in those days, what makes it "rare" today in unc? There certainly aren't very many Barber quarter set builders in the MS61-MS63 range. There are more BU 1909-O's than there are set builders. The odds of finding a fresh BU roll of 09-0 quarters is at least possible....as rolls were saved from day 1 of most Barber quarter dates. A friend of mine was reviewing an estate about 10 years ago and ran across 2 fresh BU rolls of 1889-cc dollars. Stuff can still be "found" out there. In his writings back in the 1980's or so Dave Bowers mentioned the existence of unbroken Barber quarter roll sets (including the rare S mints). Have to wonder if any of those sets are still unbroken?
The 09-0 is nothing ultra-special or "rare" when it comes to unc O-mints. The unc 09-0's get an undeserved price bump for having a low mintage....lower than all the other O mints. But clearly, some of those others with 2X to 4X the mintages are actually as scarce or even rarer in unc. That's probably due to 09-0 being last year of the NO mint and a higher % of the mintage being saved in BU condition. The fact that lower grade MS 1909-0 Barber quarters are getting a big boost in price because the F-AU circs are scarce is quite ironic. Here's an example of the circ set builders driving unc prices up. No one thought to save XF/AU 1909-0 Barber quarters during WW1 or the 1920's/1930's. But someone was smart to save some unc rolls early on. I can't speak to the availability of VF-AU 1909-o Barber quarters back in the 1970's and 1980's as I wasn't looking for them. It's certainly possible that the date has been hoarded where several strong hands hold a significant portion of the F-AU coins.
If I were just a "dumb" hoarder starting out in the 1980's looking for some area of the market to corner where specimens didn't cost an arm and a leg, the 1909-o 25c might fit that bill. After all, it has the lowest NO mintage by far....so it MUST be the rarest and the best, right? Could the 09-o be like the 1844 dime where >600 specimens were amassed by a single hoarder over many years (mintage a piddly 72K)? I can't think of many other seated coins with a mintage of 72,000 or less, and >1% of the mintage surviving. The 1857-s quarter might come close but I doubt it. One almost has to wonder if the orig mintage of the 1844 dime is even correct? Is the published mintage of the 1909-0 quarter accurate? >>
You had me curious so I took a peek at the PCGS POP report. Out of your long list of quarters that are rarer (or should I say less seen by you) than the 09-O 3 decades ago there are only 4 that have a lower Pop in MS. The majority have much higher populations...the extreme being the 06-O with a POP of 162 in MS! There have been 50 09-O's graded MS. There is no explanation but if there are hundreds of MS 09-O's out their I fail to see how this market hasn't shaken some of them loose.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I believe it could be a very interesting discussion!
<< <i>....You had me curious so I took a peek at the PCGS POP report. Out of your long list of quarters that are rarer (or should I say less seen by you) than the 09-O 3 decades ago there are only 4 that have a lower Pop in MS. The majority have much higher populations...the extreme being the 06-O with a POP of 162 in MS! There have been 50 09-O's graded MS. There is no explanation but if there are hundreds of MS 09-O's out their I fail to see how this market hasn't shaken some of them loose.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I believe it could be a very interesting discussion! >>
I can't explain it either. The 09-0 was seen as often as those other dates in the both the 1970's and 1980's. It doesn't make sense to me that up to 1990 all the dealers and top collectors who were following choice and gem Barber quarters got it all wrong on the 1909-0. How can you get it "wrong" on the by far lowest mintage "O" mint? Usually, a low mintage implies some extra hoarding near time of issue. The 1896-0 and 1897-0 were dealer and collector favorites in the 1988-1990 market....so much so that I felt they went for too much money compared to all the other O mints. Sure, pull the 06-0 25c out of that list. It was one of losers. There will always be coins that don't stand up to scrutiny over time.
Hard to say what can shake things loose. I was watching my favorite seated coins from 1975-2002 and the market didn't "shake them loose." It wasn't until 2004-2008 that things really changed. It took 30 years on coins that have been around for up to 200 years! Hard to believe that considering how over-focused collectors and investors have been on mintages for the past 100 years, that they just forgot about the 1909-0 quarter. It wouldn't have been hard to systematically hoard all the decent coins over the past 20-40 years. No doubt sharp Barber collectors have been doing that for the better date VF-AU circs. Seated collectors certainly did that from 1974-2004. Then boom....everyone noticed there were few coins in the market place and up prices went. I still think that potentially 50-80% of the better date and underrated seated (and possibly Barber) coins still survive uncounted in mini-hoards. The pop reports might list as few as 20-40% of what is still out there in grades of F-AU. Hoards of 1844 dimes, 1870-cc halves, 1801/1802 halves, 1839-0 halves, etc. were and still are out there. I have no idea if any of it applies to the 1909-0 Barber quarter. The 09-0 does have the advantage of using the 1896-s, 1901-s and 1913-s coins for cover. I often thought about hoarding all the available specimens on a number of better date unc seated quarters. And I could have easily done it. In one case there were only 6-8 uncs and I had to chance to buy most every one of those quite cheaply (I did buy the finest known though). I knew that hoarding them was a "can't lose" proposition. On the ones I passed on they advanced in price 8X over 20 years. Have always kicked myself for not doing that when I knew there was huge upside...and literally no downside.
You can't win them all. I stick with the coins that were scarce in the 1970's and 1980's....and still holding their places today. Some things can easily slip by. But MS63-MS65 dated seated, barber, standing liberty, and washington quarters shouldn't be one of them. I can see the circs slipping by because the collector markets don't get as hyped as the investor/REG set coin markets.
I'm not for one digging up old threads (this one is mine!), but I do see an $1800 price tag for this date on CoinFacts vs. the $400 price that was there a decade ago.
So is the 1909-O date still hot, especially in nice circulated condition? Are they any easier to find than they were a decade ago? That world seems so long ago now, especially with some of the posters that have vanished or passed on (RIP MFH).
10-4,
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I really wish I had the 09-O in the UNC rattler holder from so long ago. I wonder where that coin is?
siliconvalleycoins.com
While I believe @amwldcoin deals mainly with Barber halves, ( have you see his show cases at a show?) ,
he might best be able to enlighten us on this question.
They are still tough as nails!
Edit to add...I would say they are harder to find now than they were 10 years ago. It's no longer a sleeper!
Wow, very old thread! I own that coin of Greg's(Walkerguy21D) now. Its pretty nice in my album and Im pretty happy with it.
Great to see Mike’s comments in this thread. Bittersweet, but still nice. We miss you Mike.
I paid $175 for an ANACS VF25 09-0 in Dec 1999 (Teletrade). Finally crossed it to PCGS about two years ago. They bumped it up to VF30. Just a fantastic example. I’ll see if I can get a pic, and post it here.
When I go to major shows I always looks for them in VF-XF. I see a few certified pieces here and there. but they aren’t usually very nice. Cheaper ones have been dipped white. If you find a nice dirty VF20, it will cost you close to a G. Tough in original condition. Just a great date!
Dave
Wonderful thread.
The 1909 O has always been a favorite of mine.
I read Dave Lawrence's books cover to cover.
Most of the info in there is still applicable today.
BHNC #203
Yes, Mike is still alive in our hearts.
He's the one that got me interested in Barber coinage, and got me reading the Barber (now Mike Hayes) thread.
Back to the 09O - I'm not nearly as active as before, but recall seldom ever seeing that coin at shows in mid-grade (example posted years ago was the rare exception), along with the 97S. A tough coin in a very tough series.
Old thread alert! RIP Mike, you were an asset to the forum for sure. Meanwhile, here are some updated values for the 1909-O, guess it's still a hot date and not a cheap one! Prices from above are from 2015, looks like the higher the grade the bigger percentage increase.
For grades 1 thru 20:
For grades 25 thru 60:
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