Ebay Situation... opinions welcome.. long read

al032184 · October 25, 2009 2:29PM

Here's the situation..
I won a few auctions from one seller, eight auctions, each of them contain a Lot of cards from a Topps set, the amount of cards and year varies.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8

.. the auction links, let me know if they don't work

... below is the invoice

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Dear ajl279psu,

Thank you for shopping on eBay! Your total amount due is $42.06. More details about your purchase are included below.

Item # Item Title Quantity Price Amount
110447274176 LOT OF 9 1962 TOPPS BASEBALL #26-379 EX/MINT!! $70.00 1___________$3.25 $3.25
110446468668 LOT OF 25 1975 TOPPS BASEBALL #282-317 NRMT-MINT $40.00 1 _______$0.99 $0.99
110446624876 LOT OF 25 1973 TOPPS BASEBALL #234-283 NRMT-MINT $40.00 1 _______$6.51 $6.51
110447275692 LOT OF 9 1967 TOPPS BASEBALL TEAMS #102-378 EX+ $85.00 1 ________$0.99 $0.99
110446640653 LOT OF 40 1977 TOPPS BASEBALL #53-644 NRMT-MINT! $40.00 1 ________$0.59 $0.59
110447349517 LOT OF 14 1966 TOPPS BASEBALL #97-417 EX+++ $70.00 1 ____________$0.99 $0.99
110446631934 LOT OF 29 1974 TOPPS BASEBALL #445-518 EX+++ $45.00 1 ___________$0.99 $0.99
110446636750 LOT OF 10 1963 TOPPS BASEBALL #32-221 EX++++ $65.00 1 ___________$1.75 $1.75
Subtotal: $16.06
Shipping and handling via US Postal Service First Class Mail: $26.00

Total: $42.06

PAYMENT MUST BE RECEIVED WITH 4 DAYS OF AUCTION AFTER THE AUCTION ENDS. 3.00 FOR EACH ADDITIONAL LOT WON ON THE SAME DAY ONLY. THANKS

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..Anyway, I email the seller and ask him if he could combine the shipping costs, and I get this response..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear ajl279psu,

HELLO, I JUST LOWERED MY S&H FROM 5.00 FOR EACH LOT WITH NO DISCOUNTS TO 5.00 FOR THE FIRST AND 3.00 FOR EACH ADDITIONAL ON THE SAME DAY ONLY. ITS STATED 2 PLACES IN MY AUCTIONS AND ONE OF THEM IS IN BOLD LETTERS. THIS IS AS LOW AS I CAN GO EVEN IF YOU WON 100 LOTS ON THE SAME DAY. I PAID ANYWHERE FROM .25 CENTS TO 2.00 FOR EACH OF THESE CARDS SO I'M STILL LOSING A LOT OF MONEY. I'M JUST TRYING TO RECOVER A FRACTION OF IT! YOU GOT A GREAT DEAL.
THANKS JON

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... Note that it does say these are his shipping rates in his auction, I just did not look at them before bidding.
I am curious as to what people think about this. Any and all opinions are welcome...

Thanks,
Alex

Boopotts · October 25, 2009 2:34PM

Pay it, and give him 5 stars for shipping and handling. A deal is a deal-- you can't hold the seller responsible because you didn't read the terms of the auction.

nightcrawler · October 25, 2009 2:37PM

Yup, $26 bucks, do it.

NickM · October 25, 2009 2:37PM

He listed the prices in the auctions. Even with $3 per auction as the shipping price, your per-card costs aren't out of line. Leave him positives and decent DSR ratings.

Nick

[edited for typo]

SportsCardCollector · October 25, 2009 2:44PM

<< Pay it, and give him 5 stars for shipping and handling. A deal is a deal-- you can't hold the seller responsible because you didn't read the terms of the auction. >>

I agree. He laid out the shipping costs and by bidding you agreed to them. If you thought the costs were too high, you should have contacted him before you bid to see if he would reduce them.

BigDan502 · October 25, 2009 2:53PM

it sucks but he listed it pretty clearly

gotta pay it

Dan
BigDan502@yahoo.com

storm888 · October 25, 2009 2:57PM

"...... Note that it does say these are his shipping rates in his auction, I just did not look at them before bidding..."

////////////////////////////

It is always best to read the terms before bidding/buying.

If I wanted the cards, I would complete the deal.

nam812 · October 25, 2009 3:00PM

With the seller having a 98.7 feedback rating, you needed to at least check out why before bidding.

CNote · October 25, 2009 3:08PM

There's another seller on ebay, user name something like Wesley25, that sells singles and lots. Does NOT combine shipping, and charges $5 per item won. Talk about a ripoff

storm888 · October 25, 2009 3:09PM

8 Negative
19 Neutral
2 Withdrawn (0 removed by eBay)
29 Total

...........................

al032184 · October 25, 2009 3:21PM

Not checking his feedback was another mistake I made, I did see that, but after the auction was over.. it was late, and I was just combing through a few auctions when I saw some of his.

Is it the opinion here that I should pay...
'.. because his terms are stated in the auction, I should have read them prior to bidding.'
or
'.. because his terms are acceptable', and you think I am still getting a 'fair deal'

I want to say, also, that I have only sold a few things on ebay, I have never had to deal with the headaches of bidder's BS, but I also have never tried to screw a seller.

storm888 · October 25, 2009 3:49PM

"...Is it the opinion here that I should pay...

'.. because his terms are stated in the auction, I should have read them prior to bidding.'

or

'.. because his terms are acceptable', and you think I am still getting a 'fair deal' ?"......

/////////////////////////////////

99% of the folks on this board will ALWAYS want you to
do the deal "because you said you would."

They seldom/never insert grey into an answer that seems
suited to black OR white.

They are EXTREMELY upstanding folks.

I, on the other hand, have a transactional-compass that I
never confuse with my moral-compass.

Thus, if I was in the OP's position, I might or might not do the
deal. If it was in my interest, I would do the deal; otherwise,
I would not do the deal.

Viewing ALL of the instant circumstances in the light most favorable
to the VERY negligent OP, I would say he should feel free to adopt
my position; without determining himself to be a scumbag, in the
event he does not do the deal.

digicat · October 25, 2009 3:53PM

<< Leave him positives and decent DSR ratings. >>

Actually, I'd say slam the appropriate DSR rating. Overpriced shipping, even when stated, is overpriced shipping.

Boopotts · October 25, 2009 3:57PM

<< 

<< Leave him positives and decent DSR ratings. >>

Actually, I'd say slam the appropriate DSR rating. Overpriced shipping, even when stated, is overpriced shipping. >>

All you do when you slam someone's DSR ratings is a) Ensure that Ebay will extract as much blood as possible from the seller's future deals, since he'll never qualify for the discount, and b) annoy the seller. The DSR ratings are a stupid idea, and 'using' them to achieve some tepid sense of vindication plays right into Ebay's hands.

The best reason I can give you for NOT dinging someone's stars is that Ebay LOVES it when you do it. That reason alone should give you pause.

storm888 · October 25, 2009 4:07PM

"...The best reason I can give you for NOT dinging someone's stars is that Ebay LOVES it when you do it. That reason alone should give you pause..."

/////////////////////////////////////////////

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

Whacking the DSRs should prolly only be used to
fight total crooks and fraudsters.

Boopotts · October 25, 2009 4:08PM

<< "...The best reason I can give you for NOT dinging someone's stars is that Ebay LOVES it when you do it. That reason alone should give you pause..."

/////////////////////////////////////////////

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

Whacking the DSRs should prolly only be used to
fight total crooks and fraudsters. >>

I couldn't agree more. If you can get a lowlife below 4.3, or whatever it is, then by all means. Otherwise, it's either all 5's or just skip it altogether.

hammered · October 25, 2009 4:10PM

Your "punishment" so to speak for not paying attention is having to complete the buy.
But if it were me, whether it was my oversight or not, anyone who charged me $26 to mail a $5 package will get negative or neutral feedback from me every time.
In fact, you have an obligation to leave non-pos feedback and low DSR on s/h charges. It's how you warn others who, like you, might not be paying close enough attention.

Ahmanfan · October 25, 2009 5:16PM

You know what? I'll go against the grain and I say, don't pay it.

Sometimes, I don't care what the 'rules' say you are supposed to do. I say make a stand for what is right, and just, and $26 shipping for +-100 baseball cards is out of line, nay, it's straight thievery.
John

stevek · October 25, 2009 5:56PM

Ya got a good deal with the seller's terms....and Penn State smoked Michigan...pay him, be happy.

Boopotts · October 25, 2009 9:23PM

<< You know what? I'll go against the grain and I say, don't pay it.

Sometimes, I don't care what the 'rules' say you are supposed to do. I say make a stand for what is right, and just, and $26 shipping for +-100 baseball cards is out of line, nay, it's straight thievery.
John >>

Tell that to Joe Orlando next time he charges you $150 to ship 200 graded cards back to you.

nightcrawler · October 25, 2009 9:28PM

storm........ I'm roarin. Another few in a long and lengthy list of great posts.

hammered, call me the ****** *******, but if you don't want to pay, don't ****** play. But I said that with the jokers voice.

EDIT: Ooops, forgot to add Ahmanfan in my post... never forget your honor. Click the button and pay for your purchase... carry on.

leathtech · October 25, 2009 11:05PM

since he does not allow you to combine purchases ask him to package each win in it's own package - if the seller won't allow you to combine to save money - he should be forced to play by the same rules - Anything less means the seller is stealing from you.

itzagoner · October 25, 2009 11:31PM

yup. happened to me too......but, i wanted those raw cards, baby, so i paid and classified it as yet another calculated risk which is likely to pay off if even only a couple of the raw cards wind up in the right holder.....that's part of the game....if you want an eBay seller to be "fair" with you, it would be in your best interest to ask if they would do so before you buy their poo.

just sayin'

CDsNuts · October 25, 2009 11:44PM

I love this statement by the seller: "THIS IS AS LOW AS I CAN GO"

So you're telling me the lowest you can go is triple what shipping will actually cost? What exactly is stopping you from going lower? I can tell by the scans the 'NM-MT' cards are overgraded by at least 2 grades. Personally, I have no problem backing out of a deal with a guy who overcharges for shipping (and justifies it) and grossly overgrades, even if this info comes to light after I have won the auction. F him.

Of course I'm also the type of person that would pay it just so I wouldn't have to think about it any more.

Either way.

SOM · October 25, 2009 11:58PM

"Of course I'm also the type of person that would pay it just so I wouldn't have to think about it any more."

Count me in that group, too! $26 is pretty cheap for anti-anxiety medication.

onebamafan · October 26, 2009 12:04AM

<< since he does not allow you to combine purchases ask him to package each win in it's own package - if the seller won't allow you to combine to save money - he should be forced to play by the same rules - Anything less means the seller is stealing from you. >>

He will not do it, and ebay doesn't care. I had a similar situation where a seller said he wouldn't combine shipping (no mention one way or the other in his description), so i asked for each DVD to be shipped seperately..........yeah right! They arrived in one box. To me that is combined shipping. I agree if you ship them together in one package/box that is combining shipping and should be charged accordingly.

bobbyw8469 · October 26, 2009 12:29AM

I would pay for one lot immediately....wait a few days.....pay for another lot.....wait a few more days.....pay for another lot.....stagger payments like that.....

leathtech · October 26, 2009 12:38AM

<< 

<< since he does not allow you to combine purchases ask him to package each win in it's own package - if the seller won't allow you to combine to save money - he should be forced to play by the same rules - Anything less means the seller is stealing from you. >>

He will not do it, and ebay doesn't care. I had a similar situation where a seller said he wouldn't combine shipping (no mention one way or the other in his description), so i asked for each DVD to be shipped seperately..........yeah right! They arrived in one box. To me that is combined shipping. I agree if you ship them together in one package/box that is combining shipping and should be charged accordingly. >>

EBay has other funny rules not sure why they can't tell sellers to combine shipping for a reasonable rate... Just like the Post Office commercial - "If it fits it ships"

Res · October 26, 2009 12:49AM

I would pay, but the rates are completely unreasonable, even if you agreed to them. 1 star.

larryallen73 · October 26, 2009 12:59AM

Sounds like you entered into a contract so I would pay.

VintageCardLover · October 26, 2009 1:20AM

he's a thief, but you agreed to his terms as they are spelled out in the listings.

its funny to read the responses, im guessing who are the lawyers based on their crafty replies

jfkheat · October 26, 2009 1:30AM

I agree with most here. It's not his fault that you didn't read the shipping fees. Let me ask you this, if the seller could leave you negative feedback would you pay? Would it be worth getting 8 negatives for? In looking at the pictures, it looks like most of the cards are overgraded. If you leave negative feedback, do it for the condition of the cards not the shipping cost.
James

PoppaJ · October 26, 2009 2:11AM

I'd also pay the guy just to go on with life. Go with your gut on the feedback situation. Though I've never experienced anything like your situation before, I'm not sure if I could actually send someone positive feedback if I felt negative about something involving them. Tough call!

Small scale sellers, such as the one in this case, often make the mistake of trying to compensate their lack of higher selling prices through inflated and corrupt S&H policies. The "all items won on the same-day only discount" seems like another way to charge for more shipping .... instead of thinking about a possible lost sale or two, a couple of days later!

Out of the 8 auctions that the OP won from this seller, there were no more than 2 unique bidders, including the OP, on any of them. Six of the 8 only had 1 bid ... the OP!

Generally, starting low end merchandise at 99 cents will many times result in a final selling price of 99 cents. So why not start the auction higher with a more reasonable shipping rate? Or, a fixed price auction?

Ive heard that the shipping charge is one of the top reasons, if not the #1 reason, that buyers are turned away from items they want.

Successful sellers are fair with their customers and concentrate on what they can do to create a following for repeat business. We all know some great sellers out there. I have my favorites. You have yours. I'd bet none of them have similar S&H policies in place.

PoppaJ

DrJ · October 26, 2009 2:57AM

My thoughts....

Sellers should feel lucky people are even bidding on overgraded raw cards in this economy. Taking a a hard stance on shipping costs is one sure way to drive away business and repeat customers. A seller has to be flexible especially with someone who bought multiple lots or perish of his own doing.

An equitable middle gorund would be a flat rate priority mail box ($10) and a few bucks for his time and effort. Offer him half on shipping in this manner and see what he does.

If he plays hardball slam his DSR and possibly leave negs if the cards come in worst condition than advertised (almost a certainty based on his past FB).

dontippet · October 26, 2009 3:23AM

When buying this many multiple items, you need to have shipping figured out ahead of time. His auctions are very clear, so you need to pay the $26. If it was me, I would have just added the $26 into my total bids. I would then give him a one for shipping charges, and I would also look closely at how many starts you give him for customer communication.

KatsCards · October 26, 2009 3:46AM

What gets me about this is the seller is obviously compensating for his lack of final auction price in his shipping charges. He stated in his responses to the OP that "He already was losing money on these cards". Call it what you want, it's poor business practice and fee circumvention and sadly the OP will probably get the cards shipped to him in a 400 ct box stuffed with some paper towels for about $5.00.

leathtech · October 26, 2009 3:55AM

<< What gets me about this is the seller is obviously compensating for his lack of final auction price in his shipping charges. He stated in his responses to the OP that "He already was losing money on these cards". Call it what you want, it's poor business practice and fee circumvention and sadly the OP will probably get the cards shipped to him in a 400 ct box stuffed with some paper towels for about $5.00. >>

Since the seller all but admitted to making money back on the shipping - I thought there was a way to report this type of practice to eBay. The seller is obviously not acting in good faith with his customer.

digicat · October 26, 2009 3:58AM

<< All you do when you slam someone's DSR ratings is a) Ensure that Ebay will extract as much blood as possible from the seller's future deals, since he'll never qualify for the discount, and b) annoy the seller. >>

That's the point. Hurt the dealer with the unreasonable prices and force him into the norm (or force him out).

SDavid · October 26, 2009 4:02AM

<< When buying this many multiple items, you need to have shipping figured out ahead of time. His auctions are very clear, so you need to pay the $26. If it was me, I would have just added the $26 into my total bids. I would then give him a one for shipping charges, and I would also look closely at how many starts you give him for customer communication. >>

That's probably what most of the would-be bidders did; had the shipping policy been different, the ending prices also would have been different. This is why buyers/sellers cannot change the terms of the sale after it's completed.

WinPitcher · October 26, 2009 4:23AM

What BobbyW said.

Steve

Tabe · October 26, 2009 5:15AM

<< He will not do it, and ebay doesn't care. I had a similar situation where a seller said he wouldn't combine shipping (no mention one way or the other in his description), so i asked for each DVD to be shipped seperately..........yeah right! They arrived in one box. To me that is combined shipping. I agree if you ship them together in one package/box that is combining shipping and should be charged accordingly. >>

That's actually mail fraud, whether anything would ever come of it or not.

Tabe

NickM · October 26, 2009 5:37AM

The seller does discount combined shipping - but not by all that much. 1st lot $5, all later lots $3.

Nick

Brick · October 26, 2009 6:07AM

There are valid arguments both ways. If it was myself I would pay and simply not deal with this gentleman again. Also I would read the auctions more carefully for a while, after which time I would forget and do something similar again. As for the rating, no way I would give 5 stars as that states shipping charges are very good. That would be an outright lie. I would not give 4 stars as that states shipping charges are good. I would leave 3 stars as charges are what he said they would be, even a small discount, and that would be satisfactory to me. If being overcharged $20 on shipping is the worst thing that happens to you on ebay consider yourself fortunate.

mtcards · October 26, 2009 6:40AM

Positive FB for sure

DSR's are up to the individual....If you hate Ebay more, high DSR's, if you hat "the man" more, low DSR's. Either way you're going to pay the same thing to get the cards...its who you hate the most...the guy who sold you the cards or the company that allowed him to sell it to you.

Personally, I would leave him a pos and 5 stars

clayshooter22 · October 26, 2009 6:57AM

If I were you,....I'd have read shipping term prior and completed the deal as such... BUT ...it makes me wonder, when selling raw and low feedback...is it likely that the guy is selling NM cards and when you get them they are in fact EX...and he wants to keep your $3 per item after you send them back...???

There is just so many signals to stay away....

KbKards · October 26, 2009 7:06AM

How many people here will ever bid on an Ebay item without looking at the shipping charge? If the seller has more than one item you're interested in, how many people will place bids without knowing what the shipping charge is or what the combined shipping policy is? If you don't look or don't care what the charge is then you either have too much money, or you're common sense challenged. If it matters to you after the auction it should be common sense to know what the charges will be before bidding. If this happened to me I would only blame myself. I'd pay the seller the agreed upon price, and I would never tell anybody about the dopey thing I did.

al032184 · October 26, 2009 7:10AM

You're right, I should have stayed away, but I had just let my guard down, I haven't had a bad ebay experience in a few months..
At first, I had decided not to pay, and just deal the best I could with what happens, but after time to think and calm down, I wrote the guy another email asking him to reduce the shipping to a more reasonable price, still waiting on a response.
Whatever happens, I am going to report this guy to ebay, whether they take it seriously or not, I'm not willing to just completely let this go.
Thanks again for the feedback, I'll keep updating.
Alex

al032184 · October 26, 2009 7:14AM

just for the record, I don't have a ton of money, and though I may be a little naive and trusting, I am not common sense challenged. I posted here because I think I am a reasonable person, but I may be stubborn at first, so I try to see things from all angles. I also wanted to warn people about the seller.

ElToroLoco · October 26, 2009 10:16AM

I have to chime in here. I think everyone has unrealistic expectations as to how much it actually "costs" a seller to "handle" and "ship" an item. Ideally, printing postage on-line, tagging, boxing and having the mail man/woman pick it up would be the "easiest" and less "time consuming".
Individuals like me, that list($&Time), sell($&Time), package properly(time), address, AND that has to go down to the post office($&gas) find it hard to charge free shipping or sticker price. So for buyers to expect Shipping & Handling fees to be EXACT as what the postal sticker says is unreasonable. As for the OP, I would expect and accept a more reasonable S&H fee but it seems as though you got a huge deal with the final auction price with the other potential bidders factoring S&H in on the final price. The terms were laid out in black and white, deal with it and move on.

Knopfler · October 27, 2009 3:40AM

I would pay it and move on. I for one love it when sellers charge inflated shipping prices. I factor the shipping price into my total bid, place a snipe, and usually get the card/cards for a lower total price than I would have paid for the same card with a low shipping price or free shipping. But good luck with whatever you decide.

al032184 · October 27, 2009 4:02AM

I had sent him another email asking him to lower the S/H price to a more reasonable price. He lowered it to $20, I paid the invoice. He sent an email explaining to me that he doesn't want to lose money, that he might start a bid at .99, and he might not get the price he expects, so he uses the S/H as a safety net.
I cannot speak ill of the guy, I don't know him, but I don't agree with his methods, and I think they are a little underhanded. I'm not happy about the whole situation, just relieved it's over.

Ebay Situation... opinions welcome.. long read

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