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How Do You Know When A Kennedy Half Is SMS?
WSCoin
Posts: 3
Hello everyone, I photograph the coins for a website, www.WSCoin.com, but I know very little about coin collecting. The shop manager, Randy, is too busy to answer all my never-ending questions, so I'm hoping to get answers here.
As I go through our inventory, I'm sending several coins to NGC for grading, and we've got a 1966 Kennedy Half graded Prooflike MS 66 on the coin flip, but I don't know if it's SMS or not, or if it's even Prooflike. Randy can't drop everything and grade a coin for me at any given moment.
If this 1966 Kennedy Half is from the coins that were struck for circulation, it's worth about $250 to $275, but if it's just SMS, it's only worth about $20.
We've also got several 1965 and 1967 Kennedy Halves and I need to know if they are SMS.
How can I determine if a Kennedy Half (1965-1967) is SMS or not?
As I go through our inventory, I'm sending several coins to NGC for grading, and we've got a 1966 Kennedy Half graded Prooflike MS 66 on the coin flip, but I don't know if it's SMS or not, or if it's even Prooflike. Randy can't drop everything and grade a coin for me at any given moment.
If this 1966 Kennedy Half is from the coins that were struck for circulation, it's worth about $250 to $275, but if it's just SMS, it's only worth about $20.
We've also got several 1965 and 1967 Kennedy Halves and I need to know if they are SMS.
How can I determine if a Kennedy Half (1965-1967) is SMS or not?
Tony
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I have already gathered that the first comment you will get here (after WELCOME!!) is
"This thread is useless without pics!!!!"
Bottomsup
And yes we need pics.
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Wouldn't photos of an SMS be about the same as the photos of a coin struck for circulation?
The fields, especially, look very much like a proof issue.
Edited to add: Welcome to the Forum!!
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
SMS coins, including halves, come in a wide variety of appearances. This is due to the fact that production standards and quality control were all over the board at the SF Mint in 1965-67. Some of these coins look like they are proofs with the high quality of proofs made in 1964 and 1968. Some even look like Cameo proofs. On the other hand some look like a circulation strike coin that is beat up very badly with marks, dings, lousy strikes made from worn out dies. In between your can get a wide variety of looks and conditions. This wide variety in the look and quality of SMS coins makes them an interesting area to study and collect.
As to your question, it has been asked many times on the forums. No one has been able to give an answer that allows one to tell and SMS coin from a regular circulation strike coin. Sometimes they are indistinguishable.
The grading services can not tell the difference either. Thus when an 1965 half dollar that you obtain from an original, unopened Bank Wrapped Roll that you purchased from the collector who got the roll from his bank in 1965 on the day the 1965 coins were released into circulation [thus you have proof it is a circulation strike and not an SMS coin], the grading service will err on the side of caution and label your circulation strike coin as an SMS. This reduces the liability the grading service has to the owner of the slabbed coin if they are wrong.
Many, many people have submitted 1965-67 circulation strike coins [which they know are not SMS coins] for grading only to be disappointed when they come back labelled SMS. They complain loudly about it, to no avail.
If you are lucky enough to submit high grade circulation strike examples of 1965-67 coins which come back with high grades and no SMS designation on the slabs, you are indeed a wizard and "The Chosen One" in your submission abilities.
Again, welcome.
Here is a link to a set of the business strike coins with images.Kennedy Short Set.
<< <i>Thus when an 1965 half dollar that you obtain from an original, unopened Bank Wrapped Roll that you purchased from the collector who got the roll from his bank in 1965 on the day the 1965 coins were released into circulation [thus you have proof it is a circulation strike and not an SMS coin], the grading service will err on the side of caution and label your circulation strike coin as an SMS. This reduces the liability the grading service has to the owner of the slabbed coin if they are wrong. >>
I can relate to this, as I purchased a 1965 half the first week they were available in early 1966. The Special Mint Sets didn't come out till later in the year. The '65 half is as close to flawless as any non-SMS I have seen, but I haven't submitted it to PCGS because I've read here that a lot of '65 business strikes are graded (incorrectly) as SMS. In this case, there is no hint of P-L surfaces. On the other hand, when the 1966 halves came out in early August of '66, the coin I bought out of an original roll looked prooflike, being struck with heavily polished dies. Due to the die polish, I'm sure that one would be graded correctly as a MS coin.
Jim
The early 60’s saw turbulent times nation wide and the removal of silver from our coinage was indeed history in the making. Another factor was the Federal Government left the collector in the dust when it announced there would be no more proof sets. WHAT?
These were big changes afoot and the clamber was soon appeased with this shoddy souvenir set which the Mint donned Special Mint Set. About the only thing special about it was the fact that they changed out and refurbished the dies more often than the business strikes, but everything else was run of the mill minting.
Once you cut the Kennedy half dollar out of the plyfilm pocket, it was anybodies guess if it came from Philly or Frisco. The enacted law in 1965 forbade the mint to put branch mint marks to keep the feeding frenzy of collectors at bay.
The SMS did improve in 1966 and they even got better in 67. Sure, PL’s with cameos exist for each of those years, but they were not the norm. Only the first few hundred coins from new dies or refurbished dies imparted these qualities.
Wait until someone asks you about SMS from 1964.
~Welcome~
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
According to A Guide Book of Modern United States Proof Coin Sets by David Lange the 1965 SMS sets were produced with two different finishes. I have a '65 SMS half with a satiny type finish that when held alone looks like a bus. strike. But when held next to a bus. strike you can see a difference in the surfaces.
Here's the excerpt from the aforementioned book:
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i>If the TPG's are going to "err on the side of caution" and grade the 1965-1967 Kennedy Halves as SMS, then would it be a waste of time sending them in for grading with the hope that they will not be SMS? >>
Many have found that to be the case on these.
<< <i>I know very little about coin collecting.
I'm hoping to get answers here.
I'm sending several coins to NGC for grading, >>
NgC? How did you end up here? It's odd that no-one there was of any help unless they have deserted the place. Perhaps you had problems registering there or finding their website. Do a seach with " numismatic gc ", works verytime.
Best of luck to you lad,
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
There was a lot going on with the coinage in '64/ '65 and with the SMS's. As mentioned
many different processes were used for the SMS and to complicate things further the re-
tired SMS dies were used in San Francisco to produce regular circulation coinage.
I never saw any really nice clad until 1968 but I have little doubt some was made. This
means if you see a really nice early clad then it was most likely from one of these sets.
BottomsUp; Welcome aboard as well.