Is this an authentic Albert Pujols autograph? (results in, it failed QO)

thenavarro · October 9, 2009 11:43AM

This card caught my eye, and I had a couple questions that someone here can probably help with.

1) Is this an authentic Albert Pujols autograph?
2) Is the card really from 2001?

Thanks,

Mike

thenavarro · October 10, 2009 3:06AM

Anyone?

MinorLeagueSource · October 10, 2009 6:15AM

Mike,

I know the seller. He has tons of real Pujols items & tons that dont pass. I would think it would be in a Jsa/Bgs or Psa/Dna holder if it was real.

thenavarro · October 10, 2009 7:22AM

Thanks MLS

frankhardy · October 10, 2009 8:01AM

Mike,

I've been fooled before on Pujols autos, but that looks like a 2001 signature to me. His early signature looks just like that. He changed his signature in 2002, and then again around 2005/2006 (which is the one he has now).

fandango · October 10, 2009 10:35AM

its real....not many Christian days cards make it out of St Louis Unsigned....

MinorLeagueSource · October 10, 2009 12:31PM

I know the seller is friends with Wilfredo Pujols (Alberts cousin). So he can get unsigned copies.

fandango · October 10, 2009 10:25PM

are you implying that auto is fake?

i know GAI is garbage but.....usually fake pujols autos are placed on expensive, well known cards, not obscure ones...

BunchOBull · October 10, 2009 10:52PM

It looks good to me, GAI slab or no GAI slab.

The only thing is, for a card that is probably signed more than not, they really didn't give him a good place to autograph the card. He did the best with what he had though.

MinorLeagueSource · October 10, 2009 11:56PM

It is real but I have no idea of the year?

thenavarro · October 11, 2009 2:32AM

Oh well, I was high bidder but it failed PSA/DNA quick opinion, so ebay will poof the auction tomorrow and I won't be bound by my bid.

Quick Opinion on the Pujols

Mike

BunchOBull · October 11, 2009 2:43AM

I still say it looks fine. No comment beyond that.

swartz1 · October 11, 2009 2:59AM

Mike,

Can you explain to me how that works?

Did you pay for the quick opinion?

and now you will send that to ebay somehow?

curious...
swartz1

lsutigers1973 · October 11, 2009 3:07AM

<< its real....not many Christian days cards make it out of St Louis Unsigned.... >>

I knew it was fake when fandango said it was real.

MLS, love the generic answer because you had no clue if it was real of not. Some expert you are.

thenavarro · October 11, 2009 3:17AM

<< Mike,

Can you explain to me how that works?

Did you pay for the quick opinion?

and now you will send that to ebay somehow?

curious...
swartz1 >>

I paid $7.49 for the quick opinion. I won't send it to ebay myself. Ebay has an arrangement with PSA/DNA that if an autograph receives a "Likely Not Genuine", then the item will go "poof" a couple days later automatically. I assume that it's Collector's Universe that reports all the failures to ebay directly. Once the item goes "poof", then the transaction is in effect cancelled, as ebay has rendered the auction void basically. Plus, if the seller lists the exact same item again, and another quick opinion is paid for, and it fails again, then the seller will have their ability to list any autographs not authenticated by JSA or PSA/DNA suspended for a term of ebay's determination. Not necessarily fair, as we all know that mistakes are made, but that's the system we all play by, and to me, it's better than no system at all.

Take care,

Mike

JeffD27177 · October 11, 2009 3:25AM

Mike -

I thought that GAI was on ebay's list of approved graders. Does the fact that the auto is authentic according to GAI allow the seller to list the item, regardless of PSA/DNA's opinion?

What if it was a JSA authenticated auto and PSA/DNA said it was likely not genuine. Not to say GAI is all that reputable, but shouldn't there be some leniency for items that have been authenticated in-person by an approved third party?

storm888 · October 11, 2009 3:28AM

"...the seller will have their ability to list any autographs not authenticated by JSA or PSA/DNA suspended for a term of ebay's determination. Not necessarily fair, as we all know that mistakes are made,..."

//////////////////////////////////

I think it's pretty fair.

swartz1 · October 11, 2009 3:36AM

thanks Mike...

good info to know...

thenavarro · October 11, 2009 3:40AM

<< Mike -

I thought that GAI was on ebay's list of approved graders. Does the fact that the auto is authentic according to GAI allow the seller to list the item, regardless of PSA/DNA's opinion?

What if it was a JSA authenticated auto and PSA/DNA said it was likely not genuine. Not to say GAI is all that reputable, but shouldn't there be some leniency for items that have been authenticated in-person by an approved third party? >>

That's a good point, but I believe that PSA/DNA's opinion will trump GAI's. I've seen a bunch of auctions that had GAI authenticated Mantle's go poof shortly after PSA/DNA's quick opinion rendered them "Likely not genuine". I guess we'll just wait and see. If ebay determines not to "poof" it, then I will honor my bid and buy it since I agreed to the terms of the auction when I placed a bid, and if ebay doesn't invalidate that, then I will feel it's my obligation to honor it.

Mike

dizzle · October 11, 2009 4:09AM

Geez fandango, some detective you are..

storm888 · October 11, 2009 4:30AM

Dueling Authenticators is always fun, and EBAY has
itself locked into a box on the issue.

Personally, I don't trust GAI, but EBAY does. Can one
trusted/recommended auth-co be "trumped" by another?

I dunno.

.............................
.................................
......................................

"Approved" outfits:

Authenticate sports autographs and memorabilia with:

Global Authentication Inc.

James Spence Authentication

OnlineAuthentics.com

Authenticate sports autographs with PSA/DNA.

...............

EBAY Policy

Authentication

Autographs are commonly sold with "Certificates of Authenticity" (COA), which are meant to assure the buyer that the signature is genuinely made by the person claimed. However, COAs are only as valuable as the reputation of the issuing party. Anyone can offer a COA, so it is important to investigate the background of each "authenticator."

There are many reputable autograph experts, and eBay has identified a partial list of authenticators for your benefit. These authenticators offer various services for buyers and sellers of autographs.

Listing Guidelines

eBay strongly recommends that autograph sellers include all relevant information in their listings about the autograph and the item it appears on, including:

A clear, scanned image of the actual autographed item for sale.

All relevant information about the Certificate of Authenticity (if the signature or item has been authenticated), including the name of the person or company issuing the certificate.

A scan of the Certificate of Authenticity (if the signature or item has been authenticated)

Seller’s refund policy—in case any reputable dealer (including those dealers listed in the relevant authentication section of eBay's site) find that the item is likely not authentic.

Unacceptable Authenticators on eBay

Many eBay members have heard about a federal investigation by the FBI and United States Attorneys' offices into forgeries of sports autographs and certificates of authenticity that may have been falsely issued. As a result of that case, eBay will not permit the use of or reference to certificates of authenticity on its site that have been issued by the following parties:

All-Sports Cards & Memorabilia

Classic Memorabilia

Dave Niedema, a.k.a. Dave Madiema

Donald Frangipani

Forensic Document Services-Robert Prouty

Hollywood Dreams

J. Dimaggio Co. / J. Dimaggio Company

Legends Sports Memorabilia

North Shore Sports

Pro Sports / Pro Sports Memorabilia

R.R.'s Sports Cards & Collectibles

SCAA /Front Page Art Angela-John Marino

Slamdunk Sportscards Memoribilia

Sport Card Kid Hunting Beachor

Sports Alley Memorabilia

Sports Management Group

Stan's Sports / Stans Sports Memorabilia

Steve Ryan

Universal

Universal Inc.

Universal Memorabilia

W.W. Sportscards & Collectibles

Unrelated to this investigation, eBay does not allow Certificates of Authenticity from any of the following authenticators:

Donald Frangipani

Hundreds of COAs originally issued by Donald Frangipani may have been fraudulently copied or altered. Until further notice, eBay will not permit any use of or reference to certificates of authenticity issued by Donald Frangipani.

Robert Prouty

Forensic examiner Robert Prouty and a company known as Forensic Document Services caused a number of certificates to be issued based upon only limited, "cursory" reviews of autographs. Based upon information from the N.Y. Department of Consumer Affairs, federal law enforcement and Mr. Prouty, it appears that these limited reviews were not sufficient to provide meaningful assurances about the authenticity of the autograph. As a number of items issued with such certificates may be forgeries, eBay will not permit any such limited certificates of authenticity issued by Robert Prouty or Forensic Document Services to be used in any way on eBay.

Forensic Document Services

Any listings that refer to examinations or certificates of authenticity from these companies or individuals are not allowed.

vladguerrero · October 11, 2009 6:28AM

I think the opinion service helps push the issue one way or another (especially if they give it the thumbs up and you get it slabbed) but I have personally seen a bunch of GAI slabbed auto's fail PSA/DNA QO and then end up in PSA/DNA holders after being cracked and subbed by a big submitter, I'm not insinuating preferential treatment to a big submitter just a similar situation were the results were reversed. I wouldn't have bought that card personally but the auto really did match his 2001 RC's very well.

storm888 · October 11, 2009 6:34AM

"...but I have personally seen a bunch of GAI slabbed auto's fail PSA/DNA QO and then end up in PSA/DNA holders after being cracked and subbed..."

////////////////////////////

As we all know, looking at a scan can be a TOTALLY
different experience than examining an item inhand.

I feel pretty confident that there is a much greater conservative
bias in QOs than there is in the inhand authentication process.

MinorLeagueSource · October 11, 2009 8:15AM

LSU Tigers, go collect your Greg Maddux Psa 6 or tell us all about your store closing again.

I feel the signature is real but I have no idea if the card is a 2001. Thats my opinion & if it was still up I would buy it. Just because Psa/Dna says its not real doesnt make it not.

thenavarro · October 11, 2009 9:22AM

I went ahead and bought the card. There are a couple of people that I trust more than PSA on Pujols and they believe it's real.

I'll get it slabbed by JSA instead.

Mike

fandango · October 11, 2009 9:31AM

Mike, sorry the usual Pujols trolls had to try and derail your thread...

LSU and DIZZLE SHAME ON YOU AGAIN

lsutigers1973 · October 11, 2009 9:58AM

<< Mike, sorry the usual Pujols trolls had to try and derail your thread...

LSU and DIZZLE SHAME ON YOU AGAIN >>

MLS always claims to be an auto expert but never can give an opinion on an auto until it is proven fake or real.

You on the other hand, always claim to be a Pujols expert but yet you are always wrong when the legitimacy of a Pujols auto is in question.

BTW, how are your private investigations going?

MinorLeagueSource · October 11, 2009 10:04AM

<< 

<< Mike, sorry the usual Pujols trolls had to try and derail your thread...

LSU and DIZZLE SHAME ON YOU AGAIN >>

MLS always claims to be an auto expert but never can give an opinion on an auto until it is proven fake or real.

You on the other hand, always claim to be a Pujols expert but yet you are always wrong when the legitimacy of a Pujols auto is in question.

BTW, how are your private investigations going? >>

Psa said its fake & I say its real so I guess I'm going with what everyones saying? Also I say I'm A Jeter expert not on Pujols. I am A expert on Jose A Pujols though.

Also when is store reopening?

Is this an authentic Albert Pujols autograph? (results in, it failed QO)

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