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Would you take a NGC coin with a CAC sticker over a PCGS coin without one?

seateddimeseateddime Posts: 6,169 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Would you take a NGC coin with a CAC sticker over a PCGS coin without one? Would you care either way?

Assume both coins are solid for the grade.
I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org

Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.

Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.

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    GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,376 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No,,,, it;s all a matter of dollars and SENSE imageimageimageimageimage

    GrandAm image
    GrandAm :)
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    MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    When purchasing a coin, I would take the better coin, in whatever state it was presented.

    I could care less about the slabs/stickers when it comes time to buy sight-seen coins in first-tier TPG slabs.

    That said, sight-unseen and all being equal, I'd probably take the NGC/CAC coin.
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
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    soty27soty27 Posts: 1,956


    << <i>Would you take a NGC coin with a CAC sticker over a PCGS coin without one? Would you care either way?

    Assume both coins are solid for the grade. >>



    You are fired up about that crossover image

    IMO it depends on what you are doing with the coin. If the coin is for your personal collection and you have no intentions of selling the coin then IMO I would just stick with one holder or the other and try to complete the set or what not. If you are purchasing a coin to sell at a later date then I would think the ngc coin with the cac sticker would bring more then a pcgs coin. If you are trying for a registry set then purchase coins already in the holder you need in order to avid the crossover game.
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    GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
    PCGS
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    BobcatzBobcatz Posts: 15
    yes.

    I think John Albanese has better eyes than any of the graders PCGS can field. He certainly has more experience, has seen many more coins, and has a track history of being able to pick out doctored coins that PCGS blatantly misses.

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    fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    No. It would probably cross at about 64.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

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    SmallEagleSmallEagle Posts: 736
    In the coins I collect (high-end type) PCGS-slabbed coins without CAC stickers sell for more (on average) than NGC-slabbed coins with stickers. I prefer the more valuable ones (everything else equal).

    Who is John Galt?
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    AU58WALKERSAU58WALKERS Posts: 3,562 ✭


    << <i>When purchasing a coin, I would take the better coin, in whatever state it was presented.

    I could care less about the slabs/stickers when it comes time to buy sight-seen coins in first-tier TPG slabs.

    That said, sight-unseen and all being equal, I'd probably take the NGC/CAC coin. >>



    What Mike said!
    "Everyday above ground is a good day"

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    RYKRYK Posts: 35,789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will take the coin that I like better of the two. No two coins (pre-1933) are identical, so there's always one that looks better than the other.

    If you rephrase the question to:

    If you found a coin that you liked and had a choice between having it in an NGC holder with the CAC sticker vs. having the coin in the PCGS holder, I would, in most cases, take it in the PCGS holder. Most coins look better in the PCGS holder, IMO.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
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    MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If you rephrase the question to:

    If you found a coin that you liked and had a choice between having it in an NGC holder with the CAC sticker vs. having the coin in the PCGS holder, I would, in most cases, take it in the PCGS holder. Most coins look better in the PCGS holder, IMO. >>



    Rephrased in that way, I agree.
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
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    DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    If CAC liked the coin in NGC plastic, wouldn't they also like it in PCGS plastic? Why would it be in PCGS plastic without CAC approval?
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
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    seateddimeseateddime Posts: 6,169 ✭✭✭
    This question has nothing to do with any other posts.

    I am really seeing if CAC is as respected or more respected or less respected than PCGS.

    I personally am a big fan of CAC.

    Every single coin I purchased from Legend with a CAC sticker I have found to be very solid for the grade. I have 2 PCGS MS66 1946 S 1/2 dollars, one CAC another not. I paid $350 for the CAC coin and would gladly sell the non-cac coin for $250, I doubt if I cracked it out it would come back a 66 again. I have found coins in both PCGS and NGC I feel were overgraded but have yet to see a CAC coin I felt was overgraded, not to say that won't happen.
    I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org

    Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.

    Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
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    EdscoinEdscoin Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭
    As a collector,If both coins are solid for the grade I could care less what slab it is in.
    ED
    .....................................................
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    RYKRYK Posts: 35,789 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If CAC liked the coin in NGC plastic, wouldn't they also like it in PCGS plastic? Why would it be in PCGS plastic without CAC approval? >>


    While it's a hypothetical, in real life, grading and opinions are consistently inconsistent, so this scenario is entirely plausible.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
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    stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If CAC liked the coin in NGC plastic, wouldn't they also like it in PCGS plastic? Why would it be in PCGS plastic without CAC approval? >>



    I dunno, but the thought of such a thing already chaps my hide. PCGS plastic with no sticker?image

    BTW, I gotta say it, this plastic, star, sticker stuff has and is getting out of hand IMO. Y'all are nuts!!!!image
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
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    stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Who's on first?
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
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    RYKRYK Posts: 35,789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am really seeing if CAC is as respected or more respected or less respected than PCGS.

    My own conclusion is that they are all independent opinions, worthy of respect, and also worth disregarding in some circumstances and the individual.

    In other words, yes, the CAC is as respected, more respected, and less respected than PCGS. image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would buy the coin I liked better. I've seen coins in PCGS, NGC and CAC sticker holders that I liked, and I've seen PCGS, NGC and CAC sticker coins that I did not like. The slab brand or the sticker will not sell the coin to me.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Try "Cross at any Grade" next time. Just so long as you keep the pedigree.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
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    OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If I absolutely HAD to leave it in the slab rather than crack it out then I would take the NGC slab--with or without the sticker. I like the looks of that slab better. My actual preference would be the old smaller ANACS slab, though.
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
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    MICHAELDIXONMICHAELDIXON Posts: 6,411 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the coins were the same quality, had identical eye appeal and everything was equal, I'd take the PCGS coin. I only like green beans with chinese food!
    Spring National Battlefield Coin Show is September 5-7, 2024 at the Eisenhower Hotel in Gettysburg, PA. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
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    highbidder1970highbidder1970 Posts: 167
    Would take the coin I liked better; CAC sticker is meaningless. If you need them to tell you a coin is nice maybe you should be buying baseball cards.
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,436 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>When purchasing a coin, I would take the better coin, in whatever state it was presented.

    I could care less about the slabs/stickers when it comes time to buy sight-seen coins in first-tier TPG slabs. >>

    image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
    Absolutely!!! (if the coin was better) image
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    ksteelheaderksteelheader Posts: 11,777 ✭


    << <i>Would you take a NGC coin with a CAC sticker over a PCGS coin without one? Would you care either way?

    Assume both coins are solid for the grade. >>



    I'd take the coin appealed to me. Forget the plastic and stickers.
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    JBNJBN Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Select the better coin based on what you like. There, we've got the obvious answer out of the way.

    That being said, if the coins are 'equal' in the eye appeal dept., then you may want to go for NGC/CAC - it is likely more saleable.

    If you know that the PCGS coin has been submitted to CAC and failed - then I'd pick the NGC/CAC for sure.

    CAC is, for me, a nice 'security blanket'. I'm more willing to buy a coin I need off of a grainy picture if it has CAC.

    I have been impressed with CAC. I'm currently plowing about 110 coins through CAC. Yep, it is a lot of money, but I'm doing so that my heirs have more saleable coins and will reduce the chance that they will be taken-to-the-cleaners selling my collection after I'm gone. (none of my heirs has any interest in coin collecting).

    To date, my 'batting average' has been around 60%. I would dispute some of the non-CACed decisions (especially on two incredibly nice-looking darkly toned Morgans), but have been largely satisfied. They are tough on FH SLQs - only 3 of 6, with both NGC SLQs failing.
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    ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd take the coin appealed to me. Forget the plastic and stickers. >>

    image

    The plastic and the stickers are, at best, a "nice to have" -- but the coin is the star, not the plastic or the sticker.
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    dohdoh Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭
    Dude, let it go. This is the third thread you've started about this.

    Oh and the answer, of course, is DEPENDS ON THE COIN INSIDE THE PLASTIC
    Positive BST transactions with: too many names to list! 36 at last count.
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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Honestly, I think the PCGS coin without the sticker is still going to bring more on the marketplace - especially since it can just be claimed the coin hasn't been seen by CAC yet. However, the NGC coin with the sticker is much more liquid and thus worth more than it was without the sticker.

    In the areas I collect anyway.
    Early Dollar Set
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    FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If I knew for absolutely sure that CAC looked at the NGC graded coin in the same light that they look at a PCGS graded coin then I would take the NGC graded coin. Since no one knows this for sure I would stick with the PCGS graded coin.

    Ken
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    ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If I knew for absolutely sure that CAC looked at the NGC graded coin in the same light that they look at a PCGS graded coin then I would take the NGC graded coin. Since no one knows this for sure I would stick with the PCGS graded coin. >>

    I'm not JA, but I can't imagine he'd have a lower standard for stickering an NGC coin than a PCGS coin at the same grade. I suspect that eventually, the spread between PCGS and NGC CAC'd coins will continue to drop, but I could be wrong. This would be more likely true once the marketplace was fully convinced that a CAC'd NGC coin was as "all there for the grade" as a CAC'd PCGS coin in the same grade.
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    tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    << <i>yes.

    I think John Albanese has better eyes than any of the graders PCGS can field. He certainly has more experience, has seen many more coins, and has a track history of being able to pick out doctored coins that PCGS blatantly misses. >>




    ........well then the rumor of him getting cataracts is just not true?imageeh?
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
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    tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭

    .....we should be cautious with this thread. remember what carol stated the other day about the "software" monitor?




















    imageimage
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coin has to meet MY standards regardless of plastic or stickers.
    All glory is fleeting.
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    eggboneeggbone Posts: 615 ✭


    << <i>When purchasing a coin, I would take the better coin, in whatever state it was presented.

    I could care less about the slabs/stickers when it comes time to buy sight-seen coins in first-tier TPG slabs.
    image
    image
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    jhdflajhdfla Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭
    What Bill said.


    However TDN makes a valid point, that the PCGS coin is GENERALLY going to bring more in the marketplace. As such it may be a more liquid coin because of the bias toward PCGS by many collectors, even though the NGC coin is superior. If you are a dealer and buying for stock at auction, having viewed the coins and determining the NGC coin is indeed the better coin, you still may end up buying the PCGS coin if most of your customers prefer PCGS.

    John
    SeatedQuarters
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    BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,957 ✭✭✭
    I buy the coin and not the holder. If I like the NGC coin with the CAC sticker then I will end up sending it to PCGS for cross at any grade even if it downgrades.
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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Depends on the price tag and what I think of each coin.
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with SmallEagle and TDN in the areas that I collect.

    Before the 2008 blowout I would have always taken the better coin, as long as the difference was noticeable. If essentially the same, then would always prefer the PCGS coin. The PCGS coin will still typically bring more money unless the NGC coin is starred or very high end. CAC really doesn't factor in imo other than to weed out low end coins. CAC treats both TPG's the same.

    But times have changed and so has liquidity. PCGS coins have widened the liquidity gap on NGC coins since August 2008. Say all you want about not buying plastic, etc. but the NGC coin even with a CAC sticker better talk to me before I buy it over a decent PCGS coin. As much as I don't like it, that's the market speaking. Maybe this will swing back over time as the market recovers. Being more of a type collector than set collector, my preference in future buys will lean heavily towards PCGS-CAC. That way if I already love the coin, I have 2 other opinions that agree with me. If I don't like it, I really don't care if its PCGS-CAC or NGC-CAC. But as a potential seller someday, I want the most liquid plastic with the most liquid attributes...whatever that may be at the time.

    roadrunner

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    dizzyfoxxdizzyfoxx Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭
    Given the two coins are equally "solid", I would take the PCGS coin every time.
    image...There's always time for coin collecting. image
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    BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,957 ✭✭✭
    Now if you buy the holder and not the coin would you take PCGS with a sticker or NGC with a sticker. image
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    jhdflajhdfla Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭


    << <i>But times have changed and so has liquidity. PCGS coins have widened the liquidity gap on NGC coins since August 2008. Say all you want about not buying plastic, etc. but the NGC coin even with a CAC sticker better talk to me before I buy it over a decent PCGS coin. As much as I don't like it, that's the market speaking.

    roadrunner >>



    I don't like it either, there are some truly great coins in NGC holders that are available at a discount to similar PCGS pieces. Used to view it as an opportunity, and still do to some degree, but the bias in the marketplace really makes you think twice sometimes. Especially as tough as they've been on crossovers lately, as the OP knows all too well.

    john
    SeatedQuarters
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    dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    It all depends on which NGC holder the coin is in. If it's in one of the new prong type holders you could experience problems on or after Dec. 21st 2012 if in fact the earths poles shift and the coin falls out of the prongs. There is also the possibility that accelerated global warming may cause the the CAC sticker to fall off the NGC holder thus making the coin virtually unsaleable.

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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's essentially to the point, at least right now, where the market doesn't care about the super solid NGC coin, CAC or otherwise. It still gives some support to old-holdered gems, high end star coins with eye appeal, but the list is shortening as we speak. Even at the peak of the 1980 market, a comparable NGC coin would bring 5-10% less than the PCGS coin. Things never did get back to parity. So you'd have a hard time convincing me that we'll even get back to the 5-10% point again.

    Every single coin I purchased from Legend with a CAC sticker I have found to be very solid for the grade.

    I'm not sure what that means considering that Legend carries very few NGC coins in their 14 page on-line inventory. There's probably not even 10 pieces there. It seems to say to me that their customers prefer PCGS coins, esp. CAC'd.

    CAC is not a cure-all. But there are few of us with eyes better than JA's. If your eyes are better than his then by all means, load up on all the coins he has rejected that you personally like.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    I think CAC is giving PCGS a lot more business. Buy a NGC CAC coin, and expect it to cross at grade to PCGS. Sounds good to me.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
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    BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,957 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think CAC is giving PCGS a lot more business. Buy a NGC CAC coin, and expect it to cross at grade to PCGS. Sounds good to me. >>



    Problem is that PCGS still has trouble crossing these because it's in a slab and could be hiding something. The only way to cross CAC'd NGC slabs is to cross at any grade so they can crack it out and look at it.
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    ProofRainbowRooseveltProofRainbowRoosevelt Posts: 863 ✭
    I could absolutely care less what the coin looks like. I only care about the grade a company gives it. Hell, throw the coin away and give me a holder. All the extra bells and wistles on the holder are just an added bonus. image
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,436 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I could absolutely care less what the coin looks like. I only care about the grade a company gives it. Hell, throw the coin away and give me a holder. All the extra bells and wistles on the holder are just an added bonus. image >>



    How are your registry sets coming along?image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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