Can the 49ers trade his rights away or not? Im saying can a team trade say their next years 1st round pick for him, and then of course try and hope to sign him?
The full version of the article says that if Crabtree doesn't sign by November 17, he will be unable to play this season. In that case, November 17 can't come soon enough.
Can the 49ers trade his rights away or not? Im saying can a team trade say their next years 1st round pick for him, and then of course try and hope to sign him? >>
The deadline to trade passed on Aug 14th. Now, SF must sign him by Nov 17th and if they don't, neither can negotiate again until March something. His rights stay with the 49ers until the day of the next draft, which means he cannot participate in predraft skill tests.
Or something like that.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Crabtree is an idiot, I think we can all agree on that...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
What do you mean they don't have any bargaining power, all he has to do if he thinks he is worth more is sit out and re-enter the draft. Why is this any different than you or me getting a job offer and turning it down because we don't think the money is right. Come on there are many jobs out there I am sure he is qualified for that would pay him millions of guaranteed money which invested properly would mean he wouldn't have to work a day in his life.
I will say this. Mel Kiper sure must enjoy coming off in interviews as a complete jerk, with the portrait he paints of himself of the "All knowing NFL Draft guru". I have seen a few interviews of his arguing with other "guru's". when the disagree with him, he pouts like a 3 year old.
<< <i>I will say this. Mel Kiper sure must enjoy coming off in interviews as a complete jerk, with the portrait he paints of himself of the "All knowing NFL Draft guru". I have seen a few interviews of his arguing with other "guru's". when the disagree with him, he pouts like a 3 year old. >>
I am not an NFL fan, and certainly do not follow the draft. However, the few times I have seen Kiper he has been very pleasant (though condescending).
Welcome back 49ers, your new era is here. This team is gonna be SOLID the next few years. Mike Singeltary is a great coach. Now you have a great Wr. Not Sure about Shawn Hill but he is proving me wrong so far.
As long as the 49ers didn't budge, I'm cool with it. They are certainly building a solid foundation and are one amazing play away from being undefeated. Singletary is the real deal.
[Edit to add: I have to wonder if the early-season success the Niners are enjoying forced his hand. He seems to have lost the ability to play the "you guys need me more than I need you" card in that respect. And perhaps he decided that if the team was looking like a winner, he wanted to be a part of it. Or else he just came to his senses and realized that not signing and re-entering next year's draft might be a losing deal.]
I just don't see how these players straight out of college are automatically worth so much just because they were great in college. I think they should have to prove themselves before getting the big bucks. Sometimes these college stars don't shine so bright in the NFL. I'm not saying Crabtree will not be great in the NFL, but he hasn't proved it yet!
According to the source, the Crabtree contract is for six years and $32 million that could maximize to $40 million if he achieves every incentive in the deal. The guarantee in the contract is $17 million, but he is expected to make $19 million over the first three years and $23 million over the first four years. The five-year deal is worth $28 million, according to the source.
Crabtree balked at a long-standing offer of approximately five years and $20 million, with a reported $16 million guaranteed. Instead, he sought money comparable to what higher draft picks received.
Oakland Raiders receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey, the No. 7 choice, signed a five-year contract that will guarantee him at least $23.5 million.
Jaguars top pick Eugene Monroe, taken eighth overall, signed a five-year, $25 million contract that includes $19 million guaranteed.
So let me get this straight....The initial offer from the Niners is 5/$20m with $16m guaranteed....then, 4 weeks into a season in which they are 3-1, and a miracle play from being 4-0, in which they demonstrate that they CLEARLY can win without him - the offer increases to 5/$28m?....and it's front loaded?.....and the #7 pick only got 5/$23.5m?....how/why did the Niners give in so badly??? Crabtree had MUCH less leverage now than he did in August....someone has to explain this to me, because I don't get it.
If you were around back in the day when axtell and I went at it over Mario/Bush money, you knew this was coming.
The real number to look for is the guaranteed part, nothing else really matters to be honest. The remaining salary, other than base, is all incentive. Yes, OAK did shell out another $1MM in guarantee but was still below and above the respective picks. I'm willing to bet for the extra, he got thumped on unrealistic incentives.
A great example is Brady Quinn. I recently read an article about how his benching could affect his contract. He may loose something like (and I'm going by memory) $6MM due to playing less than a % of snaps. Think if he misses another 3 or 4 games, not only does he lose money this year but the following as well.. Those clauses only kick in only if he achieves that first milestone.
It was the same scenario.. He wanted to be paid more than where he was drafted. Rather than act like a little Crabeyatch, he signed and moved on.
The NFL is the only sport (that I'm aware of) where a contracted player can get cut and only receive his guaranteed money; everything else goes *poof*. That's why you see so many renegotiations, cuts and resigns, and such.
whew.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Money at stake: It's probably the last thing on Brady Quinn's mind right now, but if he does get benched, he stands to be out up to $11 million. Quinn needed to play at least 70 percent of the snaps this season to trigger the $11 million escalators in his contract that would earn him the maximum value of the deal. >>
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<<<The real number to look for is the guaranteed part, nothing else really matters to be honest. >>>
I get that. The bottom line is the Niners paid $1m more guaranteed and $8m more base than their last offer to sign a guy who had LESS leverage now than he did then... Crabtree won, IMO...big time.
All this being said, Crabtree is a huge talent that could take the Niners offense to the next level (maybe not this year, but next year certainly). Too bad Alex Smith didn't pan out, if this offense had a QB, they'd be downright scary next year.
I could be mistaken but don't believe that's the case. Again, I'm willing to bet his base salary is in line with his slotted draft spot and any additional money is based upon playing milestones.
For example, maybe he can make an additional $8MM if he's in the top x of receptions, TDs, and/or on the field for x% of the snaps.
However, maybe you're right and his base was increased $8MM over the contract term. Again, that doesn't mean jack squat if he's cut; the only money owed will be the guaranteed part.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Crabtree's base deal: six years, $32 million Posted by Mike Florio on October 7, 2009 3:07 PM ET In the wake of the news that the 49ers have signed receiver Michael Crabtree after an extended holdout, there has been not a hint of the dollars to be paid to Crabtree.
And since this means that his agent hasn't leaked the numbers, it means that his agent feels no specific motivation to do so.
Possibly because his agent isn't all that thrilled to have his name on the deal.
So the numbers will come from sources other than Crabtree's agent. And we've gotten our mitts into them.
Per a league source, Crabtree has signed a six-year, $32 million contract. (The total includes guaranteed money, base salaries, and the one-time incentive based on achieving minimum playing time.)
The deal also includes $17 million in guaranteed money.
As reported elsewhere, the deal can void to five years based on performance triggers, wiping out a final year base salary of $4 million. But they won't be easily reached.
The source tells us that, in his first four seasons (including 2009), Crabtree must either qualify for two Pro Bowls, or he must qualify for one Pro Bowl in one year and he must participate in 80 percent of the offensive snaps in a separate year in which the team makes the playoffs.
In other words, if in 2010 he qualifies for the Pro Bowl and the team makes the playoffs and he participates in 80 percent of the snaps, he'll still need to make it to the Pro Bowl or achieve the 80-percent/playoffs in another season.
Since the chances of Crabtree making the Pro Bowl or participating in 80 percent of the offensive snaps this year is roughly zero percent, he'll have three years to get it done.
And it won't be easy. Frankly, he'll be hard pressed to make it to one Pro Bowl in three years with the likes of Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Steve Smith, the other Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, DeSean Jackson, Johnny Knox, Percy Harvin, Greg Jennings, Roddy White, T.J. Houshmandzadeh in the same conference.
So, by all appearances, it's a six-year deal. And at $17 million in guaranteed money, the per-year guarantee is a tepid $2.83 million per year.
There's another problem with the deal -- it has no mid-tier incentive package. Instead, the additional $8 million that Crabtree can earn (pushing the max value to six years, $40 million) requires the kind of unrealistic, mega-star performances that no rookie is likely to ever achieve.
So while the contract paid to Packers defensive tackle B.J. Raji covers five years and pays $22.5 million, he has the ability (if he's a solid player) to make up the difference between his base deal and Crabtree's five-year, $28 million haul via the mid-tier incentive package in Raji's deal.
And unless Crabtree meets the performance thresholds necessary to void the sixth year, he'll be stuck under contract for another year at a base salary of only $4 million.
There's one other area of concern with the deal. Crabtree, per the source, received no option bonus. Instead, he has significant money tied to a fairly new device known as a "discretionary salary advance," which unlike an opition bonus is subject to forfeiture if Crabtree decides in a year or two that he wants to hold out for a better deal. (We're also told that the 49ers have included language that would make certain escalators subject to forfeiture, too.)
Meanwhile, the deal falls well short of the mark for which Crabtree and agent Eugene Parker were aiming -- the five-year, $38.25 million contract paid by the Raiders to receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey, the seventh overall pick in the draft.
Even if Crabtree successfully voids the final year, he'll make more than $2 million per year less on average than Heyward-Bey.
Thus, as we explained earlier in the day, this is a deal that Crabtree could have done in July, which would have given him a much better chance of making a contribution to the 49ers during his rookie year.
So while the final outcome can be described as win-win, the broader view suggests that it's really a lose-lose situation.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
One of the reasons I like greencrow resurrecting these threads is it gives us an opportunity to review situations in hindsight.
I was off on the "Crabtree Rule" since JaMarcus ended up being the poster boy bloated, guaranteed rookie contracts.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Comments
Can the 49ers trade his rights away or not? Im saying can a team trade say their next years 1st round pick for him, and then of course try and hope to sign him?
The full version of the article says that if Crabtree doesn't sign by November 17, he will be unable to play this season. In that case, November 17 can't come soon enough.
/s/ JackWESQ ... a 49ers fan.
<< <i>BOX!
Can the 49ers trade his rights away or not? Im saying can a team trade say their next years 1st round pick for him, and then of course try and hope to sign him? >>
The deadline to trade passed on Aug 14th. Now, SF must sign him by Nov 17th and if they don't, neither can negotiate again until March something. His rights stay with the 49ers until the day of the next draft, which means he cannot participate in predraft skill tests.
Or something like that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I will say this. Mel Kiper sure must enjoy coming off in interviews as a complete jerk, with the portrait he paints of himself of the "All knowing NFL Draft guru". I have seen a few interviews of his arguing with other "guru's". when the disagree with him, he pouts like a 3 year old. >>
I am not an NFL fan, and certainly do not follow the draft. However, the few times I have seen Kiper he has been very pleasant (though condescending).
/s/ JackWESQ
Crabtree a 49er now.
[Edit to add: I have to wonder if the early-season success the Niners are enjoying forced his hand. He seems to have lost the ability to play the "you guys need me more than I need you" card in that respect. And perhaps he decided that if the team was looking like a winner, he wanted to be a part of it. Or else he just came to his senses and realized that not signing and re-entering next year's draft might be a losing deal.]
Crabtree balked at a long-standing offer of approximately five years and $20 million, with a reported $16 million guaranteed. Instead, he sought money comparable to what higher draft picks received.
Oakland Raiders receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey, the No. 7 choice, signed a five-year contract that will guarantee him at least $23.5 million.
Jaguars top pick Eugene Monroe, taken eighth overall, signed a five-year, $25 million contract that includes $19 million guaranteed.
So let me get this straight....The initial offer from the Niners is 5/$20m with $16m guaranteed....then, 4 weeks into a season in which they are 3-1, and a miracle play from being 4-0, in which they demonstrate that they CLEARLY can win without him - the offer increases to 5/$28m?....and it's front loaded?.....and the #7 pick only got 5/$23.5m?....how/why did the Niners give in so badly??? Crabtree had MUCH less leverage now than he did in August....someone has to explain this to me, because I don't get it.
The real number to look for is the guaranteed part, nothing else really matters to be honest. The remaining salary, other than base, is all incentive. Yes, OAK did shell out another $1MM in guarantee but was still below and above the respective picks. I'm willing to bet for the extra, he got thumped on unrealistic incentives.
A great example is Brady Quinn. I recently read an article about how his benching could affect his contract. He may loose something like (and I'm going by memory) $6MM due to playing less than a % of snaps. Think if he misses another 3 or 4 games, not only does he lose money this year but the following as well.. Those clauses only kick in only if he achieves that first milestone.
It was the same scenario.. He wanted to be paid more than where he was drafted. Rather than act like a little Crabeyatch, he signed and moved on.
The NFL is the only sport (that I'm aware of) where a contracted player can get cut and only receive his guaranteed money; everything else goes *poof*. That's why you see so many renegotiations, cuts and resigns, and such.
whew.
Link
<< <i>Money at stake: It's probably the last thing on Brady Quinn's mind right now, but if he does get benched, he stands to be out up to $11 million. Quinn needed to play at least 70 percent of the snaps this season to trigger the $11 million escalators in his contract that would earn him the maximum value of the deal. >>
I get that. The bottom line is the Niners paid $1m more guaranteed and $8m more base than their last offer to sign a guy who had LESS leverage now than he did then... Crabtree won, IMO...big time.
All this being said, Crabtree is a huge talent that could take the Niners offense to the next level (maybe not this year, but next year certainly). Too bad Alex Smith didn't pan out, if this offense had a QB, they'd be downright scary next year.
<< <i>and $8m more base than their last offer >>
I could be mistaken but don't believe that's the case. Again, I'm willing to bet his base salary is in line with his slotted draft spot and any additional money is based upon playing milestones.
For example, maybe he can make an additional $8MM if he's in the top x of receptions, TDs, and/or on the field for x% of the snaps.
However, maybe you're right and his base was increased $8MM over the contract term. Again, that doesn't mean jack squat if he's cut; the only money owed will be the guaranteed part.
Crabtree's base deal: six years, $32 million
Posted by Mike Florio on October 7, 2009 3:07 PM ET
In the wake of the news that the 49ers have signed receiver Michael Crabtree after an extended holdout, there has been not a hint of the dollars to be paid to Crabtree.
And since this means that his agent hasn't leaked the numbers, it means that his agent feels no specific motivation to do so.
Possibly because his agent isn't all that thrilled to have his name on the deal.
So the numbers will come from sources other than Crabtree's agent. And we've gotten our mitts into them.
Per a league source, Crabtree has signed a six-year, $32 million contract. (The total includes guaranteed money, base salaries, and the one-time incentive based on achieving minimum playing time.)
The deal also includes $17 million in guaranteed money.
As reported elsewhere, the deal can void to five years based on performance triggers, wiping out a final year base salary of $4 million. But they won't be easily reached.
The source tells us that, in his first four seasons (including 2009), Crabtree must either qualify for two Pro Bowls, or he must qualify for one Pro Bowl in one year and he must participate in 80 percent of the offensive snaps in a separate year in which the team makes the playoffs.
In other words, if in 2010 he qualifies for the Pro Bowl and the team makes the playoffs and he participates in 80 percent of the snaps, he'll still need to make it to the Pro Bowl or achieve the 80-percent/playoffs in another season.
Since the chances of Crabtree making the Pro Bowl or participating in 80 percent of the offensive snaps this year is roughly zero percent, he'll have three years to get it done.
And it won't be easy. Frankly, he'll be hard pressed to make it to one Pro Bowl in three years with the likes of Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Steve Smith, the other Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, DeSean Jackson, Johnny Knox, Percy Harvin, Greg Jennings, Roddy White, T.J. Houshmandzadeh in the same conference.
So, by all appearances, it's a six-year deal. And at $17 million in guaranteed money, the per-year guarantee is a tepid $2.83 million per year.
There's another problem with the deal -- it has no mid-tier incentive package. Instead, the additional $8 million that Crabtree can earn (pushing the max value to six years, $40 million) requires the kind of unrealistic, mega-star performances that no rookie is likely to ever achieve.
So while the contract paid to Packers defensive tackle B.J. Raji covers five years and pays $22.5 million, he has the ability (if he's a solid player) to make up the difference between his base deal and Crabtree's five-year, $28 million haul via the mid-tier incentive package in Raji's deal.
And unless Crabtree meets the performance thresholds necessary to void the sixth year, he'll be stuck under contract for another year at a base salary of only $4 million.
There's one other area of concern with the deal. Crabtree, per the source, received no option bonus. Instead, he has significant money tied to a fairly new device known as a "discretionary salary advance," which unlike an opition bonus is subject to forfeiture if Crabtree decides in a year or two that he wants to hold out for a better deal. (We're also told that the 49ers have included language that would make certain escalators subject to forfeiture, too.)
Meanwhile, the deal falls well short of the mark for which Crabtree and agent Eugene Parker were aiming -- the five-year, $38.25 million contract paid by the Raiders to receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey, the seventh overall pick in the draft.
Even if Crabtree successfully voids the final year, he'll make more than $2 million per year less on average than Heyward-Bey.
Thus, as we explained earlier in the day, this is a deal that Crabtree could have done in July, which would have given him a much better chance of making a contribution to the 49ers during his rookie year.
So while the final outcome can be described as win-win, the broader view suggests that it's really a lose-lose situation.
I was off on the "Crabtree Rule" since JaMarcus ended up being the poster boy bloated, guaranteed rookie contracts.