Out here in Northern California the classic cars are everywhere so good deals are also to be found. I have a 1966 factory 4-speed El Camino I have been trying to sell for over 2 years without any real offers. I am not asking that much either as like most people selling classic they have double into them what they are asking. Now regarding boats run of the mill boats are going for nothing but trying finding a nice used Boston Whaler Outrage and if you do they go quick, yet on the East coast I see them and would buy one in a heart beat. Regarding vehicle registration I have two Nortons motorcycles that I have one plate for both.
I have contemplated such things in nightmarish scenarios. Scenarios that I thought were distant fiction in my California cocoon. I am absolutely shocked that this is a real practice in some states.
A standing tax on cars and boats and stocks and bonds and art? But not coins yet?
<< The problem is not the whales. The problem is rarity. >>
Is there really a problem here?
Yes. Minnows suffer because they cannot have what they want, and whales suffer because they have to pay through their teeth for their toys. But for the minnows to blame the whales is silly.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>One particularly passionate person who came up to our booth started lamenting the fact that the “rich collectors are ruining the classic car (coin) market” by bidding up ANY car (coin) with a big block engine (huge rarity) in it, and as such, the “regular collectors” cannot afford to buy those cars (coins) and fix them up. >>
in comes the coin doctors to "fix up" problem coins.
<< <i>I am reminded that not only do we pay a sales tax on cars, we also pay a yearly personal property tax
I like to pretend that at least some of the annual registration fees (which is what I assume you're referring to) goes toward road maintenance, police, and emergency response services, so that, generally, that segment of the population which uses the road system pays more tax toward it than those who don't drive. Further, I delude myself into thinking that those who can afford fancy extra cars can also afford a disproportionate share of these costs (versus non-car-owners or owners of a single, practical car per person). Like you, my wife and I minimize these costs by driving a 10+ year old 4-runner and maxima.
But I would love to someday have a 3rd garage containing an old camaro or mustang, along with a consuelo to dust it between sunday drives from the estate. >>
No, it is actually called a "personal property tax" and is billed to you based on the estimated value of your vehicle. For example, for my wife's 2005 Acura MDX, we paid about $550 in personal property tax. In order to renew your registration, for which there is a separate fee of about $25 annually, you must have the receipt for payment of this tax. By driving a lower value automobile (currently I drive a Honda Civic), I pay less of this tax.
As for the distribution of the tax, it generally follows the same distribution proportions of the property tax on our homes (school, emergency services, library, travel fund for state and county bigshots, outsized pensions for anyone who has ever been on the state or county payroll, etc.).
At any rate, if I bought an extra $10,000 vehicle for fun, in addition to the state sales tax, I would be in for a couple hundred dollars each year. So far, we do not have a personal property tax for coins, and I hope we can keep it that way. >>
We have the same personal property tax in Connecticut, and the rates are outrageous. A new car will run you at least $1,500 per year in tax (I don't have the values or the rates in front of me right now).
As an aside, unbeknownst to Mrs. Longacre, the "shed" that I built with my friends, which is really the size of a barn, is big enough to fit an extra car (and designed to take the weight), and I made sure the doors were big enough to drive straight in. If Longacre ever has a mid-life crisis, at least I will have room for a 2009 Corvette or a nice Shelby Cobra. >>
You're talking about a REAL cobra right??? like from the sixties...not one of those sissy mustang versions
I suspect he may have been talking a Superperformance Cobra or the like. They run about $50K and are quite similar to the 60s Cobras, except they are 600K less. My wife suggested buying one of those when I was buying our last sports car. It came down to that, an XKE (wish I had either skills or a neighbor who could keep one running) or the SLK350 we ended up with.
Classic cars are VERY similar to coins. I think of old Ferraris when I see coins like the large cent that went for $1.2 MM +/- a couple of bucks.
What I really would love to own is a Gullwing Mercedes. It's not like a Chevelle where you can drop in a big block and add on accesories and turn a plain jane into a monster. (No disrespect to the Chevelle as they were a wild ride back in the day, my best friend owned one). So there is no way to buy one on the cheap (Yes, I know there is a guy who made replicas that were VERY close to original, those now go for 250K instead of the $500/600K for a real one).
I think it is interesting how many coin collectors also love cars.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
Not all great classics have huge V8 engines..............The 1954 Kaiser Darrin, with only 435 produced....just a rolling work of art. ...........passed up TWO of these about 30 years ago, offered in a panic sale by an old timer who was losing his workshop/garage due to highway expansion. DAMN! Just couldnt come up with the six thousand dollars he wanted. DAMN!
Every state has a different way to pick our pockets. I bought a used 20o6 ford powerstroke and went to pay the sales tax. It used to be based on price paid but not any more. The state assigns a value and that is what you pay. Getting a better deal does not mean anything to the tax man/woman. They said it was worth 15k, i paid 11k and they took another 1150.00 coin dollars out of my pocket. This truck has had 2 other owners, the first guy paid over 3k in taxes, the second guy paid about 2500 in taxes and i paid 1150. One truck and the state has collected over 6k. I was to scared to ask the insurance man how much the the annual fee was going to be for my 17 year old son to be the primary driver. I will let the wife write that check.
On a side note when i redid my 79 vette i took great pains to make sure it was all there and done correctly down to the emmissions. I bought cats, air pumps and the like to find out that any vehicle in texas over 25 years old is not required to pass the emmisions part. LOL
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Interesting discussion. The whales don't ruin the market, they help create it and make it more exciting. Who knows, if a person is smart and works hard they could become a whale themselves, this is America after all and not a caste society.
Classic cars that are in demand have always been expensive. I bought a 1969 Roadrunner in 1975 for $700, at that time the "full classics" of the CCCA were well beyond my reach. For a short time in 1974-75 you could buy a 426 Hemi for $2000, by 1977 they were up to $4-$8K and quickly becoming classics. There are always areas of the classic car market (and coin market) that are affordable, I like the 1937-1948 Chryslers and DeSotos. These can be found inexpensive and they are just as good quality wise, and as rare in some cases, as the CCCA full classics. The muscle care craze will end when the baby boomers start croaking, in most cases they are not rare. The new sports cars are much better performers, my daily driver is faster, handles better, and gets more than twice the gas milage of my old 1969 Roadrunner.
Washington State used to have very expensive license tabs, I was paying over $1000 a year in 1995 to license two average cars. A bright young man named Tim Eyeman led a voter driven initiative to drop the license fees to about $50 per vehicle max.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
It takes a certain amount of money to fund a state and they will get the money from you one way or another. One state may pay personal property tax and lower state income tax... etc. It is all about the level of services provided and how much bureaucracy is imbedded. Auto and license taxes are just another way to generate revenue, as is sales tax. Then there is the ever popular real estate tax which is embedded in your rent if you don't own your residence.
Back on point, the collectors of super rarities, whether coin or auto just make a very thin market at the upper end that few of us can obtain. The buyers of the recent large cents for mega dollars are in the same class as those who buy old Ferraris and Aston Martins.
Classic cars are actually a bargin when you look at some of the Mecum auctions. You can buy what is effectively a new car for under 15K in many cases and have something interesting and fun as well as restored to a condition like new. Not a bad deal. Don't look for a big block vette at that price, but look at some of the other cars that are nicely finished and the prices have returned to a reasonable level where the average person can buy one.
I have noticed nice coins, but not super expensive ones settling a little in price over the last year or so. You just have to pick your spots.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
Comments
Personal Property Tax?!?!?
This is REAL?!?!?
I have contemplated such things in nightmarish scenarios. Scenarios that I thought were distant fiction in my California cocoon.
I am absolutely shocked that this is a real practice in some states.
A standing tax on cars and boats and stocks and bonds and art? But not coins yet?
I feel sick. I feel rage. A bad combination.
<< <i> If Longacre ever has a mid-life crisis, at least I will have room for a 2009 Corvette or a nice Shelby Cobra.
Mr. Longacre, what are you waiting for? That sounds like some good clean fun!
Is there really a problem here?
Yes. Minnows suffer because they cannot have what they want, and whales suffer because they have to pay through their teeth for their toys. But for the minnows to blame the whales is silly.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>One particularly passionate person who came up to our booth started lamenting the fact that the “rich collectors are ruining the classic car (coin) market” by bidding up ANY car (coin) with a big block engine (huge rarity) in it, and as such, the “regular collectors” cannot afford to buy those cars (coins) and fix them up. >>
in comes the coin doctors to "fix up" problem coins.
I am fixing up a 1964 GMC...cool truck, not as cool as my old 52...but still cool (oh how I miss the 52...my dad wrecked it
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I am reminded that not only do we pay a sales tax on cars, we also pay a yearly personal property tax
I like to pretend that at least some of the annual registration fees (which is what I assume you're referring to) goes toward road maintenance, police, and emergency response services, so that, generally, that segment of the population which uses the road system pays more tax toward it than those who don't drive. Further, I delude myself into thinking that those who can afford fancy extra cars can also afford a disproportionate share of these costs (versus non-car-owners or owners of a single, practical car per person). Like you, my wife and I minimize these costs by driving a 10+ year old 4-runner and maxima.
But I would love to someday have a 3rd garage containing an old camaro or mustang, along with a consuelo to dust it between sunday drives from the estate. >>
No, it is actually called a "personal property tax" and is billed to you based on the estimated value of your vehicle. For example, for my wife's 2005 Acura MDX, we paid about $550 in personal property tax. In order to renew your registration, for which there is a separate fee of about $25 annually, you must have the receipt for payment of this tax. By driving a lower value automobile (currently I drive a Honda Civic), I pay less of this tax.
As for the distribution of the tax, it generally follows the same distribution proportions of the property tax on our homes (school, emergency services, library, travel fund for state and county bigshots, outsized pensions for anyone who has ever been on the state or county payroll, etc.).
At any rate, if I bought an extra $10,000 vehicle for fun, in addition to the state sales tax, I would be in for a couple hundred dollars each year. So far, we do not have a personal property tax for coins, and I hope we can keep it that way. >>
We have the same personal property tax in Connecticut, and the rates are outrageous. A new car will run you at least $1,500 per year in tax (I don't have the values or the rates in front of me right now).
As an aside, unbeknownst to Mrs. Longacre, the "shed" that I built with my friends, which is really the size of a barn, is big enough to fit an extra car (and designed to take the weight), and I made sure the doors were big enough to drive straight in. If Longacre ever has a mid-life crisis, at least I will have room for a 2009 Corvette or a nice Shelby Cobra.
You're talking about a REAL cobra right??? like from the sixties...not one of those sissy mustang versions
Classic cars are VERY similar to coins. I think of old Ferraris when I see coins like the large cent that went for $1.2 MM +/- a couple of bucks.
What I really would love to own is a Gullwing Mercedes. It's not like a Chevelle where you can drop in a big block and add on accesories and turn a plain jane into a monster. (No disrespect to the Chevelle as they were a wild ride back in the day, my best friend owned one). So there is no way to buy one on the cheap (Yes, I know there is a guy who made replicas that were VERY close to original, those now go for 250K instead of the $500/600K for a real one).
I think it is interesting how many coin collectors also love cars.
Not all great classics have huge V8 engines..............The 1954 Kaiser Darrin, with only 435 produced....just a rolling work of art. ...........passed up TWO of these about 30 years ago, offered in a panic sale by an old timer who was losing his workshop/garage due to highway expansion. DAMN! Just couldnt come up with the six thousand dollars he wanted. DAMN!
On a side note when i redid my 79 vette i took great pains to make sure it was all there and done correctly down to the emmissions. I bought cats, air pumps and the like to find out that any vehicle in texas over 25 years old is not required to pass the emmisions part. LOL
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Classic cars that are in demand have always been expensive. I bought a 1969 Roadrunner in 1975 for $700, at that time the "full classics" of the CCCA were well beyond my reach. For a short time in 1974-75 you could buy a 426 Hemi for $2000, by 1977 they were up to $4-$8K and quickly becoming classics. There are always areas of the classic car market (and coin market) that are affordable, I like the 1937-1948 Chryslers and DeSotos. These can be found inexpensive and they are just as good quality wise, and as rare in some cases, as the CCCA full classics. The muscle care craze will end when the baby boomers start croaking, in most cases they are not rare. The new sports cars are much better performers, my daily driver is faster, handles better, and gets more than twice the gas milage of my old 1969 Roadrunner.
Washington State used to have very expensive license tabs, I was paying over $1000 a year in 1995 to license two average cars. A bright young man named Tim Eyeman led a voter driven initiative to drop the license fees to about $50 per vehicle max.
Back on point, the collectors of super rarities, whether coin or auto just make a very thin market at the upper end that few of us can obtain. The buyers of the recent large cents for mega dollars are in the same class as those who buy old Ferraris and Aston Martins.
Classic cars are actually a bargin when you look at some of the Mecum auctions. You can buy what is effectively a new car for under 15K in many cases and have something interesting and fun as well as restored to a condition like new. Not a bad deal. Don't look for a big block vette at that price, but look at some of the other cars that are nicely finished and the prices have returned to a reasonable level where the average person can buy one.
I have noticed nice coins, but not super expensive ones settling a little in price over the last year or so. You just have to pick your spots.