"Seated Liberty Quarters is the most difficult business strike set to collect!!!"

Billet7

I have been told this by more than one person. Do you agree with this statement? Would you agree that it is one of the most difficult? What sets (classic sets...no varieties) would you consider the toughest?

keoj

I would agree with the statement......I collect a difficult series but Liberty Seated quarters appears to ve a very tough set.

keoj

lkenefic

The Carson City series would be very hard (1870 CC especially), and the later dates would be tough to find too...

STONE

Especially if you're looking for EF and above specimens!

I would agree with this for the most part (keeping gold out of the equation)

Coinosaurus

It all depends on grade......if you open up the checkbook, building a low grade set out of the Heritage archives isn't hard. Starting in slabbed EF, however, many of the coins are surprisingly hard to find and the price guides are out of whack. The Redbook on my desk lists an 1860-S in EF40 at $4900 - even in these trying times you could not touch an NGC or PCGS example at that price. (I'll take that back for one coin - there is an NGC EF40 out there with obvious problems, and no one understands how it got in a holder - maybe if no one is looking that one goes as low as $4900 but I doubt it.)

Further, the recent dip in the market has constricted supply even further - not only are the coins in "strong hands" on the sidelines, but now there are reluctant sellers to add to the mix.

Collectors were spoiled a bit went the prices were going straight up - you could get out of mistakes quickly, sometimes even at a profit, and the rising prices were bringing a lot of exciting coins to the market.

On the flip side, a couple of the monster set collectors have dropped out, and better date Uncs, when they are appear, are going for much more reasonable prices than in 2007-2008. Laura has an 1886 25c in PC6 priced at $7500, which is substantially off the 2007-2008 levels. But this is a whole different market than the circulated stuff which represents 98% of the date/MM quarter collectors.

pennyannie

Part of the reason the Seated quarters are tough is the pure number needed and then you have to find the dates that only thousands were minted.

roadrunner

Keeping gold out out of the equation I'd probably say maybe. One can find a silver series with a single unique or nearly so "stopper" that will ramp the set way up (70-s half dime, 73-cc na dime, etc) but barring a unique coin, the quarters are loaded with tougher dates across the board. For a realistic collector who knows he'll never own those unique coins then the quarters come into play.

There are probably 2 to 3 dozen seated quarter dates with less than 250-300 pcs known in all grades. 16+ of those dates fall into the range of 50-150 pcs known imo. I don't even include the 72-cc, 73-cc WA in that group. Those 16 are the ones that will drive you to drink. If you eliminate damaged or heavily cleaned coins, the numbers probably drop by 50-75%. The series does have the R7 1873-cc na quarter of which 5 are known so even that date will set you back a hundred grand or more for the couple of circ coins that exist...assuming they were ever offered. The 1853-0 NA half of which 3 are known falls into that same category. The 1870-s dollar with a little more than a dozen pieces known commands a stiff price and drives the price of the set way up as well. No matter how you cut it, there is a 6 figure stopper in all these series that you can't get around. Most don't consider those in their plans however.

If one had to fill the holes of the 70-s half dime or 73-cc na dime, they would become the rarest sets since only 1 person can claim a complete set. I did a quick check once of how many seated quarters were probably rarer than the 1901-s Barber quarter. If one assumes 2500-5000 of those in existence. Approximately 75% or more of all seated quarter dates are rarer than the acclaimed 1901-s.

roadrunner

Billet7

<< <i>Keeping gold out out of the equation I'd probably say maybe. One can find a silver series with a single unique or nearly so "stopper" that will ramp the set way up (70-s half dime, 73-cc na dime, etc) but barring a unique coin, the quarters are loaded with tougher dates across the board. For a realistic collector who knows he'll never own those unique coins then the quarters come into play.

There are probably 2 to 3 dozen seated quarter dates with less than 250-300 pcs known in all grades. 16+ of those dates fall into the range of 50-150 pcs known imo. I don't even include the 72-cc, 73-cc WA in that group. Those 16 are the ones that will drive you to drink. If you eliminate damaged or heavily cleaned coins, the numbers probably drop by 50-75%. The series does have the R7 1873-cc na quarter of which 5 are known so even that date will set you back a hundred grand or more for the couple of circ coins that exist...assuming they were ever offered. The 1853-0 NA half of which 3 are known falls into that same category. The 1870-s dollar with a little more than a dozen pieces known commands a stiff price and drives the price of the set way up as well. No matter how you cut it, there is a 6 figure stopper in all these series that you can't get around. Most don't consider those in their plans however.

If one had to fill the holes of the 70-s half dime or 73-cc na dime, they would become the rarest sets since only 1 person can claim a complete set. I did a quick check once of how many seated quarters were probably rarer than the 1901-s Barber quarter. If one assumes 2500-5000 of those in existence. Approximately 75% or more of all seated quarter dates are rarer than the acclaimed 1901-s.


Very informative. Especailly the last paragraph.
roadrunner >>

Mowgli

Do a date set. It will not cost an arm and a leg; the coins are available. Do it in XF if you want a challenge.

lathmach

I own a few Seated Quarters.
Real tough series and undervalued.
There's a lot of wisdom in what RoadRunner says.

Ray

fc

<< <i>
I would agree with this for the most part (keeping gold out of the equation) >>



doh! i like seated quarters and i think it compares nicely to the lib
half eagle series for length and difficulty.

rec78

I agree mostly with the statement. I have put together almost all US coin sets and seated quarters by far is the most challenging to put together in problem free grades and trying to get all the coins to match. A lot of seated quarters have problems and nice xf-Au coins simply are not available most of the time for a lot of dates. Low grade and problem coins can be found. They are tough because there are so many hard dates to find.
However even have made the above statements, I find Bust coinage much tougher, half dimes from 1796-1805, dimes from 1796-1807. and quarters from 1796-1807. Not as many coins but finding just the right coins is nearly impossible. Just try putting any of these bust coinage sets together in problem free grades.
I find it very difficult to put together a set of barber halves in xf/au condition also. ag-vg's are plentiful. I think this is one series where it may be easier to put together a ms63 set, than a xf45 set. JMO. Bob

Overdate

>>"Seated Liberty Quarters is the most difficult business strike set to collect!!!"<<

True, but a complete set of proofs is easy. Anyone can do it!

jhdfla

Certainly one of the toughest sets, roadrunner gave a great overview of the series. In the higher grades of uncirculated, there are so many rarities, the S mints of the 50's and 60's, almost all the ones in the 40's and 50's are tough, and there are the stoppers in the 70's that were mentioned. For a real treat and a look at the finest set probably ever assembled, go around the corner to the other guys and have a look at yeoldeones registry set... absolutely mind-boggling. I never tire of looking at his set.

john

roadrunner

jhdfla, thanks for that reference to the EGH seated quarter set. I hadn't been across the street in so long that I had no idea that his set was posted. Pretty incredible considering it has 6X the points of the next best set and is 98% complete while waiting for appropriate examples of a couple of dates. I see at least 3 pieces that once were mine but they found a great home.

roadrunner

Billet7

Yeah...Gardners set is completely mind boggling. I have a hard time fathoming the possibility.

lathmach

<< <i>>>"Seated Liberty Quarters is the most difficult business strike set to collect!!!"<<

True, but a complete set of proofs is easy. Anyone can do it! >>




Oh? Anyone, eh?
I think the 1842 small date might stop quite a few people.

Ray

Billet7

I think any of the first five proofs would be set stoppers for 99% of all collectors out there...Anything in the thirties and forties are eEEEExpensive.

Billet7

I think perhaps he was joking.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>There are probably 2 to 3 dozen seated quarter dates with less than 250-300 pcs known in all grades. 16+ of those dates fall into the range of 50-150 pcs known imo. I don't even include the 72-cc, 73-cc WA in that group. Those 16 are the ones that will drive you to drink. If you eliminate damaged or heavily cleaned coins, the numbers probably drop by 50-75%. The series does have the R7 1873-cc na quarter of which 5 are known so even that date will set you back a hundred grand or more for the couple of circ coins that exist...assuming they were ever offered. >>



Not that anyone asked, but a Redbook colonial type set would include about 3 dozen coins of which the total population (total, in all grades combined, damaged and cleaned ones too) is less than 30, with a many of those much rarer than that.

lathmach

I need the 1853 no arrows, 1866, 1870-CC, 1871-CC, 1873-CC arrows, and the 1884.
I'll never complete the set. The early CCs are to expensive.

Ray

Dismeguy

I would agree that seated quarters are the toughest seated denomination to collect. Seated dimes are easier to locate towards a complete date/mintmark set though finding problem free EF and better coins still takes much effort.

Coinosauras and Roadrunner gave excellent descriptions of the seated quarter challenges.

tydye

I have been working on the liberty seated series for a few years now. I have a number of the half dimes, dimes and halfs. And about a dozen different dates of dollars. I dont think I have a handful of quarters yet. When I do find them they is almost always some problem with them. Most of my coins come from pawn and local BM joints so this is what I am finding at the primary sources. Grades are mostly vf-au on my collections

keets

I did a quick check once of how many seated quarters were probably rarer than the 1901-s Barber quarter. If one assumes 2500-5000 of those in existence. Approximately 75% or more of all seated quarter dates are rarer than the acclaimed 1901-s.

holy crap, i better start memorizing those dates, you never know who might walk into the shop..............................

rhedden

I collect the Seated quarters by date, and it is tough indeed. I got very, very lucky and bought the whole set (minus the 1873-CC NA and 1842-o SD) at a reasonable price from someone who already had a complete set. (I cheated.) I have since upgraded about 20 of the common and slightly scarce dates with wholesome, original examples, improving the overall appearance of the set for minimal outlay. My set contains a number of lightly cleaned Seated 25c that I will probably never replace- like an 1860-S in VF+, for example- and a few damaged coins, like the scratched 1870-CC. The set also includes proofs in place of many of the rare P-mints, though a few of the proofs are beautiful examples.

The worst thing about this series is wading through the same old common dates that are offered for sale over and over and over again. The 1853 Arrows and about a dozen of its boring cousins come to mind. When the scarce ones appear, they are usually cleaned or damaged- or else overpriced. Completing the set without overspending requires some compromises in terms of accepting coins with minor problems.

My thoughts on the difficulty of completing this set is that it is among the longer, slower projects you can undertake in US numismatics- but maybe not quite as bad as collecting all of the large cents by Sheldon variety or all of the Bust halves by Overton variety. Unless you get lucky and stumble upon a complete set, plan on spending multiple years finishing off the Seated 25c set in grades that please you.

Elcontador

If you're talking about an MS 65 business strike set which is attractive for the grade, I'd say Barber Halves. Many coins in the PCGS pops are pop 15 or less, but almost all Barber halves I've seen in this grade, in any TPG slab, are imo, barf-bag material. The nicest group of them I've seen were in some top tier registry sets, but even there, I was less than impressed with at least half of the coins in each set.

If you see an MS 65 Barber Half, chances are you need to be current on your tetanus shot and wear gloves when looking at it in case it bites you. Seriously, this is one ugly series in this grade.

oreville

Try to find a liberty seated quarter graded MS-58 by PCGS!

It took me 28 years to find a single one graded MS-58. It is an 1877-S 25c graded MS-58 (not AU-58) by PCGS.

Are there any others?

DoubleEagle59

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but could anyone rate the entire Seated series, starting from the 'most difficult to collect'...

such as:

Quarters
dollars
dimes
halves
half-dimes

rhedden

I'd rate the Seated series by difficulty as follows, in ~VF grade:

1. Quarters - long series, many key and semi-key dates.

2. Dimes - another long series with many key dates, but a shade easier to complete than the quarters, IMHO. Still, a tough project.

3. Dollars - shorter series, but all of the dates are expensive; most available coins cleaned or unattractive.

4. Halves - long series, but easier than the dimes or quarters for key dates. For example, no rare 1860s P-mints here, and most 1860s S-mints are relatively common.

5. Half dimes - I love them, but they are the easiest Seated series to complete. For one thing, they end in 1873, and for another, there are no CC mint coins. "Easy" is a relative term - many have tried to collect this series and gave up on completion due to lack of available coins in the grades they chose.


The above analysis excludes the 1870-S H10c, the 1873-CC NA dime, the 1873-CC NA quarter, the 1853-O NA half, and the 1870-S dollar. If you want to include those, then the difficulty of finishing the set is dominated by the "stopper" coins, as others have already pointed out.

tbarreca

<< <i>I'd rate the Seated series by difficulty as follows, in ~VF grade:

1. Quarters - long series, many key and semi-key dates.

2. Dimes - another long series with many key dates, but a shade easier to complete than the quarters, IMHO. Still, a tough project.

3. Dollars - shorter series, but all of the dates are expensive; most available coins cleaned or unattractive.

4. Halves - long series, but easier than the dimes or quarters for key dates. For example, no rare 1860s P-mints here, and most 1860s S-mints are relatively common.

5. Half dimes - I love them, but they are the easiest Seated series to complete. For one thing, they end in 1873, and for another, there are no CC mint coins. "Easy" is a relative term - many have tried to collect this series and gave up on completion due to lack of available coins in the grades they chose.


The above analysis excludes the 1870-S H10c, the 1873-CC NA dime, the 1873-CC NA quarter, the 1853-O NA half, and the 1870-S dollar. If you want to include those, then the difficulty of finishing the set is dominated by the "stopper" coins, as others have already pointed out. >>



If I knew how to insert one of those "I agree with you!" emoticons, I would do so here.

lathmach

<< <i>Try to find a liberty seated quarter graded MS-58 by PCGS!

It took me 28 years to find a single one graded MS-58. It is an 1877-S 25c graded MS-58 (not AU-58) by PCGS.

Are there any others? >>




Mechanical error in the label. Send it back to be fixed.

Ray

Billet7

<< <i>I collect the Seated quarters by date, and it is tough indeed. I got very, very lucky and bought the whole set (minus the 1873-CC NA and 1842-o SD) at a reasonable price from someone who already had a complete set. (I cheated.) I have since upgraded about 20 of the common and slightly scarce dates with wholesome, original examples, improving the overall appearance of the set for minimal outlay. My set contains a number of lightly cleaned Seated 25c that I will probably never replace- like an 1860-S in VF+, for example- and a few damaged coins, like the scratched 1870-CC. The set also includes proofs in place of many of the rare P-mints, though a few of the proofs are beautiful examples.

The worst thing about this series is wading through the same old common dates that are offered for sale over and over and over again. The 1853 Arrows and about a dozen of its boring cousins come to mind. When the scarce ones appear, they are usually cleaned or damaged- or else overpriced. Completing the set without overspending requires some compromises in terms of accepting coins with minor problems.

My thoughts on the difficulty of completing this set is that it is among the longer, slower projects you can undertake in US numismatics- but maybe not quite as bad as collecting all of the large cents by Sheldon variety or all of the Bust halves by Overton variety. Unless you get lucky and stumble upon a complete set, plan on spending multiple years finishing off the Seated 25c set in grades that please you. >>



I've never seen a complete set...or even an almost complete set of seated quarters, unless you count the one I've seen online (Gardner.) Do you post pics of your set? Whenever you upgrade, keep me in mind, I am working toward a date set...and ultimately a nearly complete set. There are a few I will never end up with, and I'm OK with that. Currently the rarest dates I own are 1868, 1872-S, 1870 and 1862-S all decent for the grade. Everything else I have is on the common side.

It suprises me how rare some of the coins are that get no attention, like some of the early "O" mints. They are super low populations, but you can pick one up for not much more than an common 1857...when you can find them.

Billet7

<< <i>I did a quick check once of how many seated quarters were probably rarer than the 1901-s Barber quarter. If one assumes 2500-5000 of those in existence. Approximately 75% or more of all seated quarter dates are rarer than the acclaimed 1901-s.

holy crap, i better start memorizing those dates, you never know who might walk into the shop.............................. >>



I think it's actually easier to remember which dates are the most common ones, and everything else is worth looking at.

TConn

I think it's important to distinguish between "difficult" and "expensive." Also are you looking for original pieces, what grade etc.?

The key dates are usually available for the most part.

roadrunner

To keep the discussion lively, these are the seated quarter dates I'd probably consider most common in the series and probably more common than the 1901-s in all grades. But they may not be since existing pops of both are not precisely known. The 55-s is listed because there are so many low grade specimens around. It's a fence sitter along with the other dates at the bottom. My ratings come from a survey I did back in my early years when I recorded EVERY specimen appearing in Coin World as well as every price list/auction cat. I received. The survey of the commoner dates went on for 1-6 months before I crossed them off the list. I was very careful not to list duplicate specimens from same advertisers. The goal was to find the underrated dates that never showed, not which coins were common.

The bottom 25% of seated 25c in rarity imo:

1838
1839
1840-0 nd
1853 WA the most common by a mile
1853-0
1854 the 2nd most common by a mile
1855
1855-s
1856
1857
1858
1859
1860
1861
1862
1873 wa
1875
1876 probably 3rd most common but it gets much tighter after this.
1876-s
1876-cc
1877
1877-s
1877-cc
1888-s
1891
1891-s

The 1838, 1839, 1840-0 nd, 1853-0, 1855-s, 1859, 1862, 1878-cc, 1888-s are fence sitters and the "tougher" coins on this list or just off it.

roadrunner

Billet7

1855-S has a PCGS certified population of only 40. I see what you are saying though, in VG and less, it is much more common than most of the other s-mints. 1879 actually has a decent size population, coming in at 211. I think 1878-CC should be on the list as well.

P.S. If anyone wants to unload one of these "very common " 1855-S coins, let me know, I don't have one yet.

Elcontador

Rhedden, imo attractive Seated $s ARE available, but dates like the 1851, 1852, the 1871 CC and a few others are obscenely expensive. You can find some dates which are acceptable in MS 63 and MS 64 holders, but none of them are inexpensive.