Baseball Hall of Fame class of 2010

Kdog08

Here are some of the eligible players for next year:

Roberto Alomar
Kevin Appier
Andy Ashby
Ellis Burks
Andres Galarraga
Pat Hentgen
Mike Jackson
Eric Karros
Ray Lankford
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Shane Reynolds
Robin Ventura
Todd Zeile


I can say that as a baseball fan I, personally "like" a few of these players...but looking at some of their stats, I'm not sure about them being in the Hall of Fame. Tell me who you would put in and why.

markj111

<< <i>Here are some of the eligible players for next year:

Roberto Alomar
Kevin Appier
Andy Ashby
Ellis Burks
Andres Galarraga
Pat Hentgen
Mike Jackson
Eric Karros
Ray Lankford
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Shane Reynolds
Robin Ventura
Todd Zeile


I can say that as a baseball fan I, personally "like" a few of these players...but looking at some of their stats, I'm not sure about them being in the Hall of Fame. Tell me who you would put in and why. >>



My votes:

Blyleven
Raines
Alomar
probably Larkin, maybe Martinez

artistlost

Blyleven
Dawson
Alomar

McGriff. Larkin and Martinez

mathew

digicat

Here's my guesses:


no support: <5%
Kevin Appier
Andy Ashby
Pat Hentgen
Mike Jackson
Eric Karros
Ray Lankford
Shane Reynolds
Robin Ventura
Todd Zeile

a little support: 5% < 10%
Ellis Burks
Andres Galarraga

strong support: 45% < 75%
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez

Induction: >75%
Roberto Alomar
Fred McGriff

lsutigers1973

This will be one of those votes that aggravates me. There a few players that were great in their generation but did not get the pub they needed to make the hall. If Larkin, McGriff, Martinez or Alomar had played a significant portion of their careers for the Yankees, they would be in.

I think the only reason the first 3 I mentioned will get in is because they played in the steroid era and are presumed to be clean. Alomar deserves it based on stats but the spitting incident has probably forever tarnished his image with the writers.

Morgoth

It wouldn't surprise me if Blyleven is the only one elected next year if any.

I think Alomar has issues with the spitting thing that will keep him from being a first balloter.

I think McGriff missing some milestone hitting marks will hurt him and keep him out maybe forever. He is a good test of how they view "semi pre" steroid players even though he played through alot of the era he has never been under suspicion.

I personally think Ventura has a better chance than Burks.

I think Larkin should get in but he isn't a slam dunk stat wise and first ballot HOFs are given a higher place in the minds of voters so I think he has to wait a year or two.

I honestly don't think Raines gets in unless a very strong effort is made to educate the writers on how good he was.

VitoCo1972

Alomar is a stone cold 100% lock. Larkin is as close to that as you can get w/o being one. Everyone else on the list is from the Hall of Very Good Pu Pu Platter.

gregmo32

I think the following deserve enshrinement. I have my doubts that Raines will ever get in, which is sad. I think Alomar should be first ballot, but may not get the votes, due to the spitting incident.

I remember Jim Palmer, HOFer and Orioles announcer saying multiple times of Alomar, "I think he is the best player I have ever seen."

Bert Blyleven

Tim Raines

Roberto Alomar

Barry Larkin

Fred McGriff

Bottom9th

<< <i>Alomar is a stone cold 100% lock. Larkin is as close to that as you can get w/o being one. Everyone else on the list is from the Hall of Very Good Pu Pu Platter. >>

digicat

Maybe. Burks has the edge on Ventura in terms of overall offense numbers, but still, neither of them are HoF material. It'll all depend on how many voters give a little tip of the cap to one of these guys just for kicks.

Was Ventura loved in Chicago or NY? I don't think Burks stuck around long enough in one place to get love from the writers.

Burks: 2000 games 8176 plate appearances
.291 avg, .363 obp, .510 slg, 126 ops+
2107 hits, 352 hr, 1206 rbi
2 All Star selections, 1 Gold Glove in OF

Ventura: 2079 games, 8271 plate appearances
.267 avg, .362 obp, .444 slg, 114 ops+
1885 hits, 294 HR, 1182 rbi
2 All Star selections, 6 Gold Gloves at 3rd

gregmo32

Both were good players, but it is more likely they won't get any votes than that either will get in to the HOF...

digicat

<< <i>more likely they won't get any votes >>



There's always someone who'll give some friendly votes though. Last year Jay Bell got 2 votes, and Dave Cone got 21. The year before that someone voted for Chuck Finley.

theskypilot

IMHO

there should be a moratorium on anyone who played in the mid 80's & up, until this PED issue is cleared up.

SKY

thunderpower

Larkin was awesome. I hope he gets in.

digicat

<< <i>there should be a moratorium on anyone who played in the mid 80's & up, until this PED issue is cleared up. >>



How are you going to "clear up" whether someone used PEDs in the late 80s or 90s?

baseballfan

Bert Blyleven
Barry Larkin
Tim Raines
Roberto Alomar

i don't think mcgriff gets in for a while

TomGshotput

<< <i>IMHO

there should be a moratorium on anyone who played in the mid 80's & up, until this PED issue is cleared up.

SKY >>



They didn't do that with the players from the 70s and early 80s who were known to be on drugs

Alomar and Larkin deserve to make the Hall-of-Fame, based on the 70 years of precedence. As always we need to temper that with all the writers who now vote based on things that have absolutely nothing to do with what happens on the baseball field

jaxxr

Larkin, Alomar, Blyleven, and Raines, and perhaps, maybe, possibly, not sure about,... Martinez.

A little curious about the limited of support for Edgar Martinez.

Via the adjusted OPS + stat, he is among the best 35 or so hitters, of all time, and rates above many HOF batters, like Harmon Killebrew, who did not contribute greatly on defense,
and his adjusted OPS + is far above any of the other 2010 candidates.

He is the first guy who was primarily a DH to be considered, I have mixed views on Edgar, but would enjoy hearing how others feel.

Should any primary DH, ever be worthy of the HOF ?

Are great closers/relief pitchers, more HOF worthy, in general, than great DH hitters ?

Morgoth

To me a DH would have to so excell at hitting it would make up for his one dimensional liability. Since defensive measurments are not on the same level as hitting I would say it would have to be overwhelming evidence before I would give him a nod over someone playing a real position.

You mention Harmon Killebrew, well for me a DH would have to really hit much better not just a little or even close to a player of that caliber before I would vote him in with that player.

Maybe win shares is a good measure but I view DH's along the same lines as relievers and until one breaks through and sets the bar it will be hard for one without an easy stat like 500 hrs or 3000 hits to make it.

Morgoth

Also the problem with DH's IMO is that once they start to decline a little in hitting they have no other way to stay in a lineup. If you have a good defensive player in a spot like SS, CF or catcher he might play through a bad season or slumps while a DH might get benched.

TomGshotput

<< <i>Also the problem with DH's IMO is that once they start to decline a little in hitting they have no other way to stay in a lineup >>



But Martinez did hit well enough to still be an All-Star at age 40, so that "problem" is meaningless

Further, he was good enough to be a productive hitter at ages 24, 25 and 26, but Seattle, Like Philadelphia with Ryan Howard, was simply too stupid to put him in the lineup. Had he been allowed to play those years, had Seattle just held it together for a few more games in 2001, had they not moved into Safeco, he may already be in

As it is, Killebrew played in 400 more games and no matter how average, it is still a big edge in defensive value over Martinez

Doesn't earn my vote when Raines and McGwire didn't come close, but could see how he might for someone else

Connecticoin

None on that list are first ballot HOF.

Bert Blyleven should go in by himself -- he deserves it, after all these years of snubs.

MAD

Blyleven should get in. It's about time.

I've thought about Alomar and the HOF a lot. Maybe because I was a big fan and supporter, I am tougher on him than others.

Even though I am a Red Sox fan, Robert Alomar became my favorite player from the first time I saw him play when he came up with the Padres.

In his prime, was one of the best and had the potential to be one of the best players of all time. He produced in every way except with power numbers. I thought he was a shoo-in to put up 3,000 hits and that was just going to be the start of HOF-worthy numbers.

I think Alomar's failure to achieve certain numbers especially the way his career floundered at the end combined with the spitting incident prevents him from being a first ballot HOFer.

The writers get an out. Couple this with Craig Biggio surpassing Alomar as the premiere second baseman of this period and Biggio is deserving of first ballot selection, Alomar is not.

Eventually he gets in, I mean if Maz is in, well...enough said.

Larkin also belongs in, but not on the first ballot.

jdip9

From that list, Blyleven and Alomar in 2010. Everyone else, never.

I'm a little surprised at the career numbers Burks put up, I didn't expect that.

JackWESQ

All numbers, awards, accolades and now PEDs aside, the Hall of Fame has been and always will come down to one word for me: Dominant. Was Player X dominant? Yes, he's in. No, he's out. Of course, how do you define dominant beyond the dictionary definition of:

1. commanding, controlling, or prevailing over all others; and/or
2. very important, powerful, or successful.

That's for the voters to decide. But of the players mentioned above, only Alomar and Blyleven come close. But close is not enough. 2010 election? No one gets in.

/s/ JackWESQ

jaxxr

I forgot about the eligibility of perhaps one of the most dominant home run hitters ever,

Mark McGwire


First ever hit 70, and is a former single season HR record holder,
Still holds the rookie HR record,
THE all time leader in HRF, or HR frequency per at bat, more likely to hit a HR than Ruth, Bonds, Kiner, or any hitter ever.

Plus, a remarkable career adjusted OPS + of 162, higher than Musial, Speaker, Mays, Aaron. and Schmidt among many others,
and even won a gold glove at 1B in 1990.

Hoopster

Jaxxr,

I am curious, do you know what Gary Carter is referring to in that quote in your sigline?

McGwire's non inclusion in the Hall has all to do with the roids issue, not his performance.

Oh, and is Alex Rios better than Denise Richards? If so, why?

Who is better Eddie Murray or Jim Rice?

IchiroDeported

Roberto Alomar --- YES best 2b of the last 25 years.
Kevin Appier ---When Hell freezes over.
Andy Ashby --- Shoot this guy
Ellis Burks ---- Never in a million years.
Andres Galarraga --- Colorado numbers inflated his totals big time.
Pat Hentgen ---One year wonder
Mike Jackson ---Please.
Eric Karros ---One dimensional slugger
Ray Lankford ---Nope. never, nada
Barry Larkin ---Better than Ozzie Smith.
Edgar Martinez ---Less than 505 of the vote, but Will get in eventually
Fred McGriff ---Yes, eventually, give him a few more homers and he's a lock,
Shane Reynolds nope.
Robin Ventura -- good player, not even close to being great.
Todd Zeile --- played for a long time, but that dont get you in the door.

ernie11

Fred McGriff gets in. Alomar, eventually. I have biases in favor of Martinez, Galarraga and Burks, all were favorites of mine when they played, but sadly, I think those 3 all fall short.

gregmo32

What is Alomar's lowest population PSA 10 Rc (or 1988 card) - does anyone know off the top of their heads?

MAD

I would think it is the 1988 Score Traded Glossy.

fandango

mattingly definately is looking better and better as time goes on.....

alomar not a HOF.....he is a spitter and he WAS BRUTAL IN NY...lots of people in NY rememeber that

IchiroDeported

alomar is more a HOF then Mattingly. and I think i might be in the4 majority on this one.

thunderpower

I agree with Ichiro's statement above that Alomar is more likely than Mattingly.

fandango

<< <i>I agree with Ichiro's statement above that Alomar is more likely than Mattingly. >>



good for you then...


one guy was a jerk on and off the field and was despised by many, the other is one of the most respected on and off the field....


Mattingly has an army of fans still and is one of the most beloved yanks...who is an Alomar fan? what is his team?

classless v class

kcballboy

<< <i>

<< <i>I agree with Ichiro's statement above that Alomar is more likely than Mattingly. >>



good for you then...


one guy was a jerk on and off the field and was despised by many, the other is one of the most respected on and off the field....


Mattingly has an army of fans still and is one of the most beloved yanks...who is an Alomar fan? what is his team?

classless v class >>




Better get Ty Cobb out then.

thunderpower

good for you then...

Just giving my opinion man. I like Mattingly too. I didn't mean to offend you.

digicat

<< <i>mattingly definately is looking better and better as time goes on..... >>



The voters don't agree with you:

2001 - 145 votes (28.16%)
2002 - 96 votes (20.34%)
2003 - 68 votes (13.71%)
2004 - 65 votes (12.85%)
2005 - 59 votes (11.4%)
2006 - 64 votes (12.3%)
2007 - 54 votes (9.91%)
2008 - 86 votes (15.8%)
2009 - 64 votes (11.9%)


It looks like the Veterans Committee might be his only hope.

RonBurgundy

Blyleven, Dawson, that's it.

MAD

Better get Ty Cobb out then

Exactly.

Not to mention Ferguson Jenkins, Orlando Cepeda and Juan Marichal.

Estil

Surely this ought to be Blyleven's year; this is pretty weak ballot this year. I think Robbie, Larkin, and Edgar are the most deserving. I mean, who else but Edgar Martinez would be the first HOF DH?

I'd love to see Mattingly go in but it looks like his bubble has all but burst. If only if it weren't for the strike... If only he stuck around one more year...

fandango

mattingly should definately gain % this year as the steroid mongers come into play....



there will be a major HOF void in the next 10 years and Mattingly can fill that roid void



ROID VOID is mattingly's chance!!!!