Home Precious Metals

Do you guys have a SHTF mindset?

Several months ago on YouTube, I subscribed to several channels with silver and gold-related videos, and a few of those have slowly become more about stockpiling food and planting your own garden instead of bullion.

Are you PMers in a SHTF mindset?
image
To support LordM's European Trip, click here!

Comments

  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231
    Its all I think about when I convert my extra green toilet paper into metal.image
  • A year ago, yes.

    Now, I see the tide turning. Public opinion is a powerful thing when it finally awakens.
    imageQuid pro quo. Yes or no?


  • << <i>A year ago, yes.

    Now, I see the tide turning. Public opinion is a powerful thing when it finally awakens. >>




    Any problem will look better if you throw 1 Trillion government dollars at it. The problem is that since the underlying fundamentals of our economy have not changed, this "recovery" is simply a temporary bright spot. Wait till double digit inflation takes hold!
  • No. I have been actively investing for a long time, starting in the summer of 1987*. Because of that trauma, for years, I thought the financial world was coming to an end everytime someone rang the bell. And they rang the bell every month, every year. I've heard a thousand reasons: NAFTA, the Japanese were going to own everything (now its the Chinese), then the first gulf war, the second gulf war, nuclear Syria (now nuclear Iran), the Federal deficit (again resurfacing). Each time I was ready to head for the bunker, and it costs me big time over the decades. I missed so many investment opportunities because I listened to Chicken Little telling me the sky was going to fall.

    That experience of the 1987 crash is seared into me, so I will probably always be a bit on the cautious side. However, I have learned that Chicken Little is usually wrong no matter how loud he/she is yelling.

    Look, times are bad. For some folks in some industries in some states, it as bad as it has ever been. It is always prudent to have insurance in the form of some hard assets, some emergency supplies. Those that go without are absolute fools. It is also foolish and has always been foolish to live inside a bunker mentality just because there are problems in the economy. Like I said, "they" will ring the bell every month, every year. There are always bogeymen to write about, always problems. Only rarely does the sky fall, and even it does like it did last year, it only rarely kills everything.

    Some day there is a chance that the financial world may indeed end, and food will be gone from the stores, and marauders will roam the streets. Historically at least half of those times, folks will have to leave for another country, and any stockpiles will be near useless. It is unlikely that those writing newsletters or posting on YouTube will get the scenario or the timing right. As 2008 showed, even if a few newsletter writers get the macro background story correct, their subscribers might loss as much or more money than regular investors. For the record some megabear newsletters they did as poorly as anyone in 2008. Google search "Harry Schulz Peter Brimelow" and the second link for December 28, 2008 will be an article detailing how one newsletter writer got the macro story correct, but lost mega money for his subscribers.

    * A few months before the October 1987 crash
  • image
    Its all relative
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Always. But it shouldn't be as sexy as water purification pumps, backup generators, and pallets of MREs.

    It's simply logic: No patriotic American who if physically able should make themselves a burden on anyone else OR society. Everyone, no matter their wealth, should have at least a couple of months of food stored, rotated, and used for every member of their family. That's not crazy combat-boot face paint hiding in the woods survivalism. It's personal responsibility, and it should be the backbone of our nation.

    A good first aid kit, knowledge of CPR, personal protection (hell yes I mean guns). A few extra blankets, maybe a hand crank radio/flashlight. Get crazy with it and buy a few inexpensive tarps, a kerosene lamp, or save up for a decorative (but functional) wood stove.

    The food, bought when on sale or in bulk, rotated and used, will actually save you money. Water and water storage costs almost nothing. A Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870 12-gauge and a case of shells will set you back all of $250 or $300. Last forever, anyone can aim and shoot it, and they'll stop virtually anything.

    That's the basics. You're now better prepared than 85% of your fellow Americans. Natural disaster, supply disruptions, political unrest, economic uncertainty from the international level down to temporary unemployment or disability, you're protected and your family is protected. Cost you almost nothing up front and will almost certainly save you money within a year or two.

    There's nothing sexy or exciting about it. It's just common sense.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    No, but the shahtf ( as in already has ). It's mind boggling.

    Instead of? That's not a SHTF mentality. That's silly.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nothing changes until you take cable away from the people. You will see riots then.

    I'm a friend of Peter Schiff. He called EVERYTHING and still got his investors hammered.

    Expect the unexpected.

    Being prepared works for me............

    Black Swan.............

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......


  • << <i>

    << <i>A year ago, yes.

    Now, I see the tide turning. Public opinion is a powerful thing when it finally awakens. >>




    Any problem will look better if you throw 1 Trillion government dollars at it. The problem is that since the underlying fundamentals of our economy have not changed, this "recovery" is simply a temporary bright spot. Wait till double digit inflation takes hold! >>



    I am not talking about the current "recovery", I believe enough people have woken up that things are going to start turning around. Did you notice the court order forcing the FED to give up records of who it is loaning to? Those who in the recent past have acted with impunity, are beginning to see that come to the end.
    imageQuid pro quo. Yes or no?
  • fishcookerfishcooker Posts: 3,446 ✭✭
    No SHTF mindset here. But having lived through the aftermath of several hurricanes over the last few years, I can say it's remarkable how easily an orderly society begins to come apart at the seams. By the time a person figures that out they needed to prepare, there's no chance.
  • guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,237 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Always. But it shouldn't be as sexy as water purification pumps, backup generators, and pallets of MREs.

    It's simply logic: No patriotic American who if physically able should make themselves a burden on anyone else OR society. Everyone, no matter their wealth, should have at least a couple of months of food stored, rotated, and used for every member of their family. That's not crazy combat-boot face paint hiding in the woods survivalism. It's personal responsibility, and it should be the backbone of our nation.

    A good first aid kit, knowledge of CPR, personal protection (hell yes I mean guns). A few extra blankets, maybe a hand crank radio/flashlight. Get crazy with it and buy a few inexpensive tarps, a kerosene lamp, or save up for a decorative (but functional) wood stove.

    The food, bought when on sale or in bulk, rotated and used, will actually save you money. Water and water storage costs almost nothing. A Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870 12-gauge and a case of shells will set you back all of $250 or $300. Last forever, anyone can aim and shoot it, and they'll stop virtually anything.

    That's the basics. You're now better prepared than 85% of your fellow Americans. Natural disaster, supply disruptions, political unrest, economic uncertainty from the international level down to temporary unemployment or disability, you're protected and your family is protected. Cost you almost nothing up front and will almost certainly save you money within a year or two.

    There's nothing sexy or exciting about it. It's just common sense. >>




    The best advice I've seen in awhile, and yet just common sense. Like I've said before, when comes down to it, I'd rather have something you could eat instead of gold. And some foks would argue that gold will buy you food, but if it was everybody for themselves, who in their right mind would trade their own survival source for a door stop? That's all gold would be in a true "mess hit the fan" situation.

    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>A year ago, yes.

    Now, I see the tide turning. Public opinion is a powerful thing when it finally awakens. >>



    I don't know about the tide turning I see it a little different....with a surfing analogy. I remember once while surfing at the Pismo Beach Pier, waves were around 3 feet. My friends and I were out for a couple of hours when out of no where came a thick rogue wave ten feet plus. We all tried to paddle over it before it broke on our heads. None of us made it and we all got worked, tumbled and spit out. The rogue wave in the economy has yet to appear. That rogue wave will come when debt damn bursts.

    R95
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yes
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Nothing changes until you take cable away from the people. You will see riots then.

    I'm a friend of Peter Schiff. He called EVERYTHING and still got his investors hammered.

    Expect the unexpected.

    Being prepared works for me............

    Black Swan.............

    MJ >>



    "stay thirsty, my friend"
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    The best advice I've seen in awhile, and yet just common sense. Like I've said before, when comes down to it, I'd rather have something you could eat instead of gold. And some foks would argue that gold will buy you food, but if it was everybody for themselves, who in their right mind would trade their own survival source for a door stop? That's all gold would be in a true "mess hit the fan" situation. >>



    At the risk of sounding Limbaugh-esque: Don't misunderstand me. In my experience, people tend to throw out the "can't eat gold" argument when they have neither food stores nor gold/metal holdings. What I've suggested should cost little if anything in terms of money, time, and even storage space. I don't want what I've suggested to be considered "survivalism" or "shtf". It is just the absolute minimum everyone should do/have without even giving it a second thought.

    And once that bare minimum amount of self-reliance is squared away, I do think that metals should play a significant part of your portfolio. How much depends on personal factors. To me, 10% physical seems pretty safe. 20% for me would probably be borderline too much (then again, I'm a metals addict). Any less than 10% I'd feel naked.

    You can't eat gold. But you don't need to if you've got rational, logical food storage. And in anything less than a complete anarchical collapse of society, an ounce or two of gold might save your home, your farm, or your life. We call that "survival". And THAT is what "survivalism" should be about.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • Since I started the thread, I guess it's only appropriate that I share my viewpoint.

    I like silver. I like gold. I feel like collecting and investing in precious metals is different than survival tactics or being prepared. I don't subscribe to the theories that precious metals are the only "real money" or that in a SHTF scenario I need gold and silver to be able to buy a loaf of bread. It may be a case of out of sight, out of mind, but I don't view my investing in precious metals as ensuring the ability to barter in a war-torn nuclear holocaust future.

    Being prepared is a given. I would love to have several months of food, water, and other necessities stored away. But when you have nothing but aluminum foil hats and a large stick, I think you're more crazy than prepared.
    image
    To support LordM's European Trip, click here!
  • InYHWHWeTrustInYHWHWeTrust Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Always. But it shouldn't be as sexy as water purification pumps, backup generators, and pallets of MREs.

    It's simply logic: No patriotic American who if physically able should make themselves a burden on anyone else OR society. Everyone, no matter their wealth, should have at least a couple of months of food stored, rotated, and used for every member of their family. That's not crazy combat-boot face paint hiding in the woods survivalism. It's personal responsibility, and it should be the backbone of our nation.

    A good first aid kit, knowledge of CPR, personal protection (hell yes I mean guns). A few extra blankets, maybe a hand crank radio/flashlight. Get crazy with it and buy a few inexpensive tarps, a kerosene lamp, or save up for a decorative (but functional) wood stove.

    The food, bought when on sale or in bulk, rotated and used, will actually save you money. Water and water storage costs almost nothing. A Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870 12-gauge and a case of shells will set you back all of $250 or $300. Last forever, anyone can aim and shoot it, and they'll stop virtually anything.

    That's the basics. You're now better prepared than 85% of your fellow Americans. Natural disaster, supply disruptions, political unrest, economic uncertainty from the international level down to temporary unemployment or disability, you're protected and your family is protected. Cost you almost nothing up front and will almost certainly save you money within a year or two.

    There's nothing sexy or exciting about it. It's just common sense. >>



    Excellent post, and I share this mindset. Add to it, a covenant-keeping community of likeminded individuals/families with different skill sets, and I'm there with you. Kind of like when the US was being born/founded. Individual responsibility and mutual interdependence are key to survival, no islands or rabid individualism will last long (John Galt & Jeremiah Johnson being the exception image). I share the mentality of not relying on the 'Gubbermint' (credit: Karl Denninger) for your basic necessities of life.

    In a true SHTF scenario, PMs may be traded in tight communities fairly safely and bartering, etc., but once word is 'OUT' YOU have the PMs, you will likely exhaust your ammunition pretty quickly.

    Don
    Do your best to avoid circular arguments, as it will help you reason better, because better reasoning is often a result of avoiding circular arguments.
  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    more serious answer, yes some sort of a plan.

    increasing the wine cellar, "pantry", generator, fuel storage, etc

    i have some PM, probably not enough, hope i never have to use it to trade for food

    getting very close to liquidating some other holdings to put into PM though.

    funny but all those annities and life policies i bought years ago still pay over 5% and adding to those as well.


  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    "No SHTF mindset here. But having lived through the aftermath of several hurricanes over the last few years, I can say it's remarkable how easily an orderly society begins to come apart at the seams. By the time a person figures that out they needed to prepare, there's no chance."

    Oh, yeah.

    Several good posts here. It ain't shtf, it's common sense these days. Yep, you turn off the cable, shut down the electric company, lose your water plant, screw up one major road, charge $5 for a gallon of gas, cut off the subsidy checks, there is probably a list of 100 things that I could easily be listed here that would cause the people of any of the maybe top 20 urban areas to go Katrina on you in a heartbeat. Get a clue here, this comfortable society we are used to is barely here but for a single heart beat and if you don't believe that go visit some nice city right after a hurricane if you need a little taste; oh yes, you do take your pistol and bring cash, no one can take credit cards because there IS NO ELECTRICITY.

    More than likely most folk, maybe a good number of them on this forum, would call that alarmist but ask anyone from a large city that has gone through a disaster and they will easily recount the lawlessness and violence and theft/robbery/burglary. This thin veneer that we are calling civility these days is just that, a very very thin layer that is easily removed and believe me, who ever is keeping order will try as hard as they can to get things restored as soon as possible and pray they are successful and quick. After you've seen a few fist fights, rammings, screaming at the gas station where people are literally fighting for gas during a disaster (yes, guns are involved), then you'll know. After you've heard police sirens for two or three days straight, then you'll know. When you hear those pistol reports late at night, then you'll know. After you see people die in their out of gas, over heated, flat tired cars on the side of the highway trying to get out of town with everyone else, then you'll know. I mean really, is it shtf or is it just being prepared, having a plan, and paying attention (the three P's).

    Hummm, just offering these comments to urge folk to follow the 3 p's, however you may interpret them. It can get really ugly really fast and as mentioned previously, if you're not prepared when it happens, it's too late.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like silver. I like gold. I feel like collecting and investing in precious metals is different than survival tactics or being prepared. I don't subscribe to the theories that precious metals are the only "real money" or that in a SHTF scenario I need gold and silver to be able to buy a loaf of bread.

    I believe that it's simply a matter of degree. Why would you buy silver or gold if you didn't think that the dollar denominated assets are in trouble? We probably won't be spending pms to buy bread, but we may very well be selling them in order to get the cash with which to buy the bread.

    It may be a case of out of sight, out of mind, but I don't view my investing in precious metals as ensuring the ability to barter in a war-torn nuclear holocaust future.

    It may not be a barter situation, but I do think it is likely that it will be a "store of value" situation. I trust pms 100% more than I trust other types of savings methods these days. I do think that the threats towards personal wealth are manifold and are coming from many different directions. If you have pms, you can't get totally blindsided. Gored, maybe - but not totally destroyed. Again, I think that the risks to ALL financial assets are huge, and many today.

    Regarding shtf, see hammerman's comments, above. Those are the realities of a disruption in services. It gets worse the larger the scale. Our whole system is so efficient that we never think much about it. A disruption in fuel, or trucking, or rail, or in agriculture could have profound impacts. Most of our jobs are specialized, and we don't raise our own food or generate our own power. We come home and flip a switch.

    Being prepared is a given. I would love to have several months of food, water, and other necessities stored away.

    Having several months of food, water & necessities used to be considered survivalist, and alarmist. I used to never worry about a break in services or home security, but I do now - too many home invasions locally and even though I don't live in town, why would anyone ignore the possibility of a break in services or even a home invasion when both are possible and not even that much of a long shot anymore?

    But when you have nothing but aluminum foil hats and a large stick, I think you're more crazy than prepared.

    Not sure I understand the context of this last remark, but yeah - if you only go around talking crazy and don't prepare, then you are being counterproductive. Still, what constitutes crazy talk, tin foil hats and big stick credentials? I think that still needs clarification.

    What I considered wierd a scant 10 years ago is what I now consider essential.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • ttownttown Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭
    I think investing in canned good and products that won't go to waste will save a ton of money in the future. Having lived though an ice storm with no electric for 5 days and some 45 days I'd say everyone should have some food, water, and camping items including fuel just as FEMA reccomends. The stores were sold out in hours if they had electric so if you need something it's way too late. Man generator, chain saws (lube and pre-mix) couldn't be purchased here for several weeks after that.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Suggest having a small stockpile of cash on hand, especially $1's, $5's, and $10's. When you lose power, ATM's won't be working and in a SHTF scenario, the banks will close their doors.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • Coll3ctorColl3ctor Posts: 3,310 ✭✭✭
    No
  • akuracy503akuracy503 Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭
    Will cash matter anymore if the banks closed their doors? Really?




    << <i>Suggest having a small stockpile of cash on hand, especially $1's, $5's, and $10's. When you lose power, ATM's won't be working and in a SHTF scenario, the banks will close their doors. >>

    CU Ancient Members badge member.

    Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Risk assesment: Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

    IMHO the worst is yet to come. Keep an eye on state and local government's inability to meet it's pension/entitlement obligations. States and local governments can't print their way out of trouble the way Washington can.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,175 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes and NO.

    I do see the fall of the US dollar. Possibly another 30 to 50%.

    I do see the US empire throughout the world becoming a lot smaller.

    But I do not see a 'panic in the street' scenario, with the great need to stockpile food, water and ammo.

    Put another way, I see the fall of the US Empire something like the fall of the British empire which happened after WW1.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you look at prior examples in other countries, panic in the streets develops quickly. Once it starts there is usually little time to prepare for it. SHTF mindset is realizing the likelyhood of it and being prepared for it. It's likelyhood increases as economic stability decreases. It's really a question of the improvement or decay of that economic stability.

    Yes, I have a SHTF mindset, and I am convinced it is fully justified by recent economic events.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • I myself believe things in the U.S. are deteriorating at a accelerated rate just this week we had a package found Friday, which was addressed to Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, followed two packages that ignited Thursday in Maryland state government mail rooms. and now a Congress member shot in the head and a federal judge killed all in one week!. Its becoming obvious that people are becoming frustrated with our Government, lack of employment etc. People are already having trouble feeding and providing shelter for their families. Civil unrest is starting to be more frequent in most quarters of our country. Here in Milwaukee Wisconsin last week a group of over 100 youths entered a big shopping mall and just destroyed stuff in the stores at random. In my generation we would never have even thought of doing such a thing. I am not going nuts buying lots of extra food ammo and other supplies but I think its prudent to be prepared. PMs in small denominations IE 1/10s gold coin, as well as 1 and 1/2s silver rounds might come in handy you never know!
    Many successful BST transactions ajia
    (x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
    mariner67, and Mikes coins
  • I have an 1800 sq ft finished basement, and when I designed it, I have an 18'x18' concrete room that serves for the storage of food, water, flashlights, radio, etc. After several hurricanes and ice storms knocking out power it comes in handy. I also make it a point that no one else knows about it, otherwise in a true SHTF scenario guess who's house they are all coming to! Before having kids and a wife I would have never thought about it but now I know it is my responsibility for 3 other people and myself when things go down hill. I do not look at myself as a survivalist just trying to be responsible
    "If you hit a midget on the head with a stick, he turns into 40 gold coins." - Patty Oswalt
  • A LITTLE BIT, PERHAPS!

    image

    image

    image

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    inappropriate post removed.

    RIP Silvereagles92
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • TheRegulatorTheRegulator Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I also make it a point that no one else knows about it, otherwise in a true SHTF scenario guess who's house they are all coming to! >>


    image
    The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
  • The what "if" senario ;

    1. Drinking water would be the # 1 priority.
    2. Enough protein to feed yourself until you become a predator.
    3. Shelter......Maybe you have to move. Maybe you are forced to move.
    4. Try and find a group of people that has the same interest as you..........This could be # 1 because, individual's have always had their own groups.
    5. Observation, Cover and Concealment, Obstacles, Key Terrain, Avenues of approach, Weather
    6. Urban strike points if you are running out of food and water.

    I am not prepared for this; But this would be my top 6. And very few are preprared for this. .00001%
  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    RIP Chad

    maybe start a new topic, this feels really weird guys
  • Wow, never even noticed the date on this thread
    "If you hit a midget on the head with a stick, he turns into 40 gold coins." - Patty Oswalt
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Will cash matter anymore if the banks closed their doors? Really?

    What about a banking holiday lasting several days to a week? Are you guaranteed that your credit cards will function properly, especially if a dollar devaluation is in progress.

    This thread does feel weird, but if anything we're closer not farther from a shtf scenario imo. The "economic rebound" from bounce in the stock market since spring 2009 (and loads of QE)has diverted all attention for now. And that's to be expected. What's going to happen to when the next hard cycle down in stocks occurs in the 2012-2014 period?

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • meluaufeetmeluaufeet Posts: 746 ✭✭✭
    <<RIP Chad

    maybe start a new topic, this feels really weird guys>>




    image
Sign In or Register to comment.