Rose's Qualifications for the HOF
markj111
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in Sports Talk
From Bill James:
Hey BIll, read a nice little argument at another site with regard to Rose and the HOF. Was Rose even a sure thing for the HOF? HE had over 2,500 more at bats than Cobb and over 1,500 more career outs than any other player in history. This guy was a hitter not a slugger. HIs career looks like it was more about accumulation than greatness and he played himself to the detriment of the team when he was managing to chase the record. Was he a sure thing? Or just a juan pierre type who never got hurt or sat and accumulated lots of hit and not much else
Asked by: robert cola sc
Answered: August 19, 2009
No one in the history of baseball was ever a more sure thing for the Hall of Fame than Pete Rose. You have to remember: the sportswriters of his era ADORED Pete Rose, idolized him. You would read glowing tributes to his style of play somewhere almost every week; I swear, it was worse than Jeter. Every broadcast featured a tribute to the Pete Rose intangibles--very often even when he wasn't playing. If a young player hustled and was scrappy, people would say that he "has a little bit of Pete Rose in him." This was high praise. Even if he had retired with 2500 hits, he'd have made the Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility. With 4200 hits, he might very well have become the first unanimous selection.
Rose's career batting average, on base percentage and slugging percentage are almost the same as George Kell. Kell retired with 2,054 hits--and is in the Hall of Fame.
It's fine to suggest that Rose wasn't really that good; he wasn't. You're overstating the argument against him. He walked 75% more than Juan Pierre and had 40% more power, in a league where there was less hitting. Rose's OPS for his career was 70 points better than the league average; Pierre's is 30 points under the league average.
Still, he was fantastically overrated as a player, but those of us who realized that at the time were outnumbered more than a thousand to one. More than that. . .thousands to one. I remember I had a friend named Cappy Gagnon. ..don't know what's happened to him. . ..who would try to tell people that Rose wasn't really that good. He'd get one sentence into his argument, and people would start explaining to him that he just didn't understand what made Rose so great.
Hey BIll, read a nice little argument at another site with regard to Rose and the HOF. Was Rose even a sure thing for the HOF? HE had over 2,500 more at bats than Cobb and over 1,500 more career outs than any other player in history. This guy was a hitter not a slugger. HIs career looks like it was more about accumulation than greatness and he played himself to the detriment of the team when he was managing to chase the record. Was he a sure thing? Or just a juan pierre type who never got hurt or sat and accumulated lots of hit and not much else
Asked by: robert cola sc
Answered: August 19, 2009
No one in the history of baseball was ever a more sure thing for the Hall of Fame than Pete Rose. You have to remember: the sportswriters of his era ADORED Pete Rose, idolized him. You would read glowing tributes to his style of play somewhere almost every week; I swear, it was worse than Jeter. Every broadcast featured a tribute to the Pete Rose intangibles--very often even when he wasn't playing. If a young player hustled and was scrappy, people would say that he "has a little bit of Pete Rose in him." This was high praise. Even if he had retired with 2500 hits, he'd have made the Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility. With 4200 hits, he might very well have become the first unanimous selection.
Rose's career batting average, on base percentage and slugging percentage are almost the same as George Kell. Kell retired with 2,054 hits--and is in the Hall of Fame.
It's fine to suggest that Rose wasn't really that good; he wasn't. You're overstating the argument against him. He walked 75% more than Juan Pierre and had 40% more power, in a league where there was less hitting. Rose's OPS for his career was 70 points better than the league average; Pierre's is 30 points under the league average.
Still, he was fantastically overrated as a player, but those of us who realized that at the time were outnumbered more than a thousand to one. More than that. . .thousands to one. I remember I had a friend named Cappy Gagnon. ..don't know what's happened to him. . ..who would try to tell people that Rose wasn't really that good. He'd get one sentence into his argument, and people would start explaining to him that he just didn't understand what made Rose so great.
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Comments
To make a comment such as that, this guy must be on drugs.
Sure fire first ballot guy.
Too bad he blew it by violating the rules on Gambling. I think he should be kept out of the Hall.
<< <i><<< It's fine to suggest that Rose wasn't really that good; he wasn't. >>>
To make a comment such as that, this guy must be on drugs. >>
Exactly! That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
He was the fire that made the Reds so good. They had a lot of good players, a lot of great players. But Rose led the emotion that made them better than the other teams that also had great players.
It's too bad he turned out to be such an a$$ as a person.
Steve
<< <i>As a Red he was a superstar, once traded to the Phillies he became a bum.
Steve >>
You're confused...the "Bums" were the Brooklyn Dodgers...I just Googled it...Rose never played for the Brooklyn Dodgers.
<< <i>Every broadcast featured a tribute to the Pete Rose intangibles--very often even when he wasn't playing >>
Even Pete Rose wasn't that good
<< <i>i will concur a silly thread, qualifications are not in question, perhaps the original posters motivations are
The point of the original post was not that Rose is not qualified, but that he is way overrated. He played with great intensity and enthusiasm, but the results were that he was a singles hitting outfielder/1st baseman for much of his career. His OBP was good but not exceptional. He broke the hits record, but was hurting the team at that point. In some cases the reputation exceeds the performance; this is one of them.
Questioning Rose's HOF credentials is a blank bullet.
If I wanted to discuss whether or not he is overrated, I would not start a thread named 'Rose's Qualifications for the HOF'.
I would ask this question, "Is Rose Overrated?".
That may lead to the discussion you want.