<< <i>Geez, all you have to do is talk with Don Kagin for 20 minutes and you would never question his PHD degree in numismatics degree again. >>
The only time I ever spoke with him was when he offered me some trinket and asked me to vote in the ANA elections--or something like that.
Hey, I am not denigrating his coin acumen. I am sure that it is top notch. The PhD was not from a reputable degree-granting institution and does not, IMO, add to his credibility. I am more impressed from the BA degree in Numismatics from Northwestern.
My farm raised father explained degrees to me like this.
BS - well, we know what that is. MS - More of the same. PHD - piled higher and deeper.
There's nothing wrong with recognizing people who have made a life long contribution to their field. We all know it's not the same process as doing original research and having to defend it, but I have no qualms with granting honorary degrees now and again.
I like it better than rewarding entertainers with knighthood.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
I must admit I do like the idea of a Ph D in numismatics. Why only one has ever been granted seems a bit strange to me. I would expect a rigorous program and sufficient study, research, and scholarly work; and sponsorship by an academic institution with a positive and strong reputation. Maybe some institution will step forward and offer such.
Any honorary degree is to me, nothing more than a made-up certificate/plaque/trophy that is only as meaninful as the integrity of the person receiving it and the institution providing it. Thus, it can be anything from totally meaningless, to a more profound and well-deserved recognition.
The discussions have caused me to reflect on something closer to home. As my son was growing up, he received a neat little trophy for his team finishing second in a an under 8 years old (U8) end-of-season soccer tournament, basically a participation trophy. He was so proud of it. About ten years later, when he was a senior in high school, he received an Associated Press award for All State running back in Michigan; he received an unframed and fairly simple white piece of paper noting the achievement. No need to ask which award truly means more.
Somewhere between a discussion of "how many doctorates can you fit on the head of a pin?" and the thrill of the opening of that unrestricted free-fire zone sometimes called a
FLAME WAR
edited to add: Somehow it's gotten lost that both Ken and Mary have made learned and practical contributions to numismatic education for decades.
The Florence Schook School would be the only educational entity in the country that would be competent to validate a claim or award based on the merits of a life-time body of work. Do posters here actually know what it's mission statement is and how long and how well it's done it's work. Wondercoin has not done his homework.
Ken Bressett and Mary Sauvain would be sitting on the committee that approved the awards.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I must admit I do like the idea of a Ph D in numismatics. Why only one has ever been granted seems a bit strange to me. I would expect a rigorous program and sufficient study, research, and scholarly work; and sponsorship by an academic institution with a positive and strong reputation. Maybe some institution will step forward and offer such.
Agree in principal, but are there any such programs that have the faculty/dept. available to actually challenge and guide the candidate??
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
<< <i>I must admit I do like the idea of a Ph D in numismatics. Why only one has ever been granted seems a bit strange to me. I would expect a rigorous program and sufficient study, research, and scholarly work; and sponsorship by an academic institution with a positive and strong reputation. Maybe some institution will step forward and offer such.
Agree in principal, but are there any such programs that have the faculty/dept. available to actually challenge and guide the candidate?? >>
I like the idea of running it through a history department, like they did at Northwestern for the undergrad degree.
Everyone is totally correct on all counts, because everyone has a tuchus.
Funny coincidence that you mention that because we can all get PhDs from Union Institute and University at home sitting on ours.
<< <i>The whole idea of a PhD in numismatics is absurd. >>
I don't think that it's any more absurd than some of the politically correct degree titles the colleges are handing out these days. It's one of the reasons why some kids can't get a job after they graduate. Their skills have little or no market value.
The subject of numismatics covers history, economics, finance, chemistry, art history, physics and metallurgy among other disciplines. I could easily see where a college university could develop a curriculum for a numismatic PhD.
As for the ANA handing out its honorary degrees, I don't see a problem. An honorary degree is just that, an honor, not a credential. And at any rate many people have achieved a level of learning at or beyond the level of a university degree through private study and research.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Art, Don's father was the true pioneer in the business. It is a lot easier to carry on your old man's business than do something new. Also, is Ute Wartenberg Kagin Don's wife? She also carries real credentials but is based in NYC, while Don's business looks to be based in CA.
<< <i>Art, Don's father was the true pioneer in the business. It is a lot easier to carry on your old man's business than do something new. >>
That MIGHT be true at the very beginning, but before long the business is the son's responsibility to see if it lives or dies. Back when I lived in Massachusetts, the local Buick dealer had been around since the 1930s. Two sons took it over, didn't get along and ran it to the ground. Ditto for another Buick - Subaru dealer when I moved to Florida. The guys who worked there told me the business was thriving until the father retired and son took over. In less than two years both dealerships were gone on the doors were closed BEFORE the "great recession."
What some people don't understand about wealth is that keeping it can be as difficult as making it. A business can go down the tubes real fast if the new owners make the wrong decisions or if the old ones get lazy or complacent.
When I worked for the old AT&T it was the largest corporation in the world. After a few years of mismanagement the company was not much more than a shell that had nothing but a name to sell. The people who want to redistribute wealth and income do not understand these concepts.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>Also, is Ute Wartenberg Kagin Don's wife? She also carries real credentials but is based in NYC, while Don's business looks to be based in CA. >>
No, they are unrelated and in fact the last names are spelled differently.
Don's wife was the one who recently spent $1 million on hobo nickels.
Edit: Sorry, it was only $170,000. Can't keep those million-dollar deals straight.
Comments
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
<< <i>Geez, all you have to do is talk with Don Kagin for 20 minutes and you would never question his PHD degree in numismatics degree again. >>
The only time I ever spoke with him was when he offered me some trinket and asked me to vote in the ANA elections--or something like that.
Hey, I am not denigrating his coin acumen. I am sure that it is top notch. The PhD was not from a reputable degree-granting institution and does not, IMO, add to his credibility. I am more impressed from the BA degree in Numismatics from Northwestern.
BS - well, we know what that is.
MS - More of the same.
PHD - piled higher and deeper.
There's nothing wrong with recognizing people who have made a life long contribution to their field. We all know it's not the same process as doing original research and having to defend it, but I have no qualms with granting honorary degrees now and again.
I like it better than rewarding entertainers with knighthood.
Any honorary degree is to me, nothing more than a made-up certificate/plaque/trophy that is only as meaninful as the integrity of the person receiving it and the institution providing it. Thus, it can be anything from totally meaningless, to a more profound and well-deserved recognition.
The discussions have caused me to reflect on something closer to home. As my son was growing up, he received a neat little trophy for his team finishing second in a an under 8 years old (U8) end-of-season soccer tournament, basically a participation trophy. He was so proud of it. About ten years later, when he was a senior in high school, he received an Associated Press award for All State running back in Michigan; he received an unframed and fairly simple white piece of paper noting the achievement. No need to ask which award truly means more.
FLAME WAR
edited to add: Somehow it's gotten lost that both Ken and Mary have made learned and practical contributions to numismatic education for decades.
The Florence Schook School would be the only educational entity in the country that would be competent to validate a claim or award based on the merits of a life-time body of work. Do posters here actually know what it's mission statement is and how long and how well it's done it's work. Wondercoin has not done his homework.
Ken Bressett and Mary Sauvain would be sitting on the committee that approved the awards.
Agree in principal, but are there any such programs that have the faculty/dept. available to actually challenge and guide the candidate??
Everyone is totally correct on all counts, because everyone has a tuchus.
I'm be happy to segue into a lively IS DIPPING DOCTORING? thread.
<< <i>I must admit I do like the idea of a Ph D in numismatics. Why only one has ever been granted seems a bit strange to me. I would expect a rigorous program and sufficient study, research, and scholarly work; and sponsorship by an academic institution with a positive and strong reputation. Maybe some institution will step forward and offer such.
Agree in principal, but are there any such programs that have the faculty/dept. available to actually challenge and guide the candidate?? >>
I like the idea of running it through a history department, like they did at Northwestern for the undergrad degree.
Everyone is totally correct on all counts, because everyone has a tuchus.
Funny coincidence that you mention that because we can all get PhDs from Union Institute and University at home sitting on ours.
<< <i>The whole idea of a PhD in numismatics is absurd. >>
I don't think that it's any more absurd than some of the politically correct degree titles the colleges are handing out these days. It's one of the reasons why some kids can't get a job after they graduate. Their skills have little or no market value.
The subject of numismatics covers history, economics, finance, chemistry, art history, physics and metallurgy among other disciplines. I could easily see where a college university could develop a curriculum for a numismatic PhD.
As for the ANA handing out its honorary degrees, I don't see a problem. An honorary degree is just that, an honor, not a credential. And at any rate many people have achieved a level of learning at or beyond the level of a university degree through private study and research.
<< <i>I like it better than rewarding entertainers with knighthood.
Maybe the ANA should be awarding knighthoods instead of "honorary degrees".
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Also, is Ute Wartenberg Kagin Don's wife? She also carries real credentials but is based in NYC, while Don's business looks to be based in CA.
<< <i>Art, Don's father was the true pioneer in the business. It is a lot easier to carry on your old man's business than do something new. >>
That MIGHT be true at the very beginning, but before long the business is the son's responsibility to see if it lives or dies. Back when I lived in Massachusetts, the local Buick dealer had been around since the 1930s. Two sons took it over, didn't get along and ran it to the ground. Ditto for another Buick - Subaru dealer when I moved to Florida. The guys who worked there told me the business was thriving until the father retired and son took over. In less than two years both dealerships were gone on the doors were closed BEFORE the "great recession."
What some people don't understand about wealth is that keeping it can be as difficult as making it. A business can go down the tubes real fast if the new owners make the wrong decisions or if the old ones get lazy or complacent.
When I worked for the old AT&T it was the largest corporation in the world. After a few years of mismanagement the company was not much more than a shell that had nothing but a name to sell. The people who want to redistribute wealth and income do not understand these concepts.
<< <i>Also, is Ute Wartenberg Kagin Don's wife? >>
No.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>Also, is Ute Wartenberg Kagin Don's wife? She also carries real credentials but is based in NYC, while Don's business looks to be based in CA. >>
No, they are unrelated and in fact the last names are spelled differently.
Don's wife was the one who recently spent $1 million on hobo nickels.
Edit: Sorry, it was only $170,000. Can't keep those million-dollar deals straight.