<< <i>He does sometimes carry some good stuff, but it's 2009, who puts out a PDF list with no images on the web? >>
Karl does, and when he says it's sharp BU for ex. you can be sure that it's at least that or better. I haven't been able to locate anything in his past 3-4 lists, and that's very upsetting. Combined with my lack of trips to US shows due to the recession, where he'd always be the first table I'd hit, I'm in serious need of a good KS fix soon.
<< <i>He does sometimes carry some good stuff, but it's 2009, who puts out a PDF list with no images on the web? >>
Karl does, and when he says it's sharp BU for ex. you can be sure that it's at least that or better. I haven't been able to locate anything in his past 3-4 lists, and that's very upsetting. Combined with my lack of trips to US shows due to the recession, where he'd always be the first table I'd hit, I'm in serious need of a good KS fix soon. >>
my experience has been the opposite, especially since his 'sharp BU' is nothing more than an MS61 according his own website. Besides him, i've never heard someone call a sharp BU to something that is usually quite bag marked and abraded as the numerical grade is; MS61 is barely uncirculated. Couple that with the cleaned coins i've received, and I won't be buying from him sight-unseen again anytime soon.
Switzerland-Zürich-Rüti 1906 23mm SHOOTING Medal by Holy-Freres. R-1792a; M-1072. 2 shields over village view / Bust of Helvetia rt. Rare, only 70 struck. Sharp BU.· · · · · · · · · · 750.00
But alas it is just text. Oh well, move along.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
BU (MS-60); Nice BU (MS-61); Lovely BU (MS-62); Sharp BU (MS-63); Lovely Sharp BU (MS-64); Choice BU (MS-65); Lovely Choice BU (MS-66); Superb Choice BU (MS-67); Gem BU (MS-68)
-Preussen
"Illegitimis non carborundum" -General Joseph Stilwell. See my auctions
As Preussen pointed out, sharp BU is MS63 Doug, not 61. A choice BU is an MS65 as you can see in the list posted above. Once you get acquainted with his grading terminology it all becomes very simple, and he does have a return policy.
I have heard complaints before. Every now and again someone might occasionally be disappointed, you just can't please everybody. I'm among his big fans though.
Edited to add that I believe that Karl has been a PCGS grader in the past, and he still is their expert on Polish coins, which explains why his grading falls so closely with PCGS when his raw coins are submitted.
No one is perfect, but I trust Karl as much as I've ever trusted any dealer when it comes to getting honest descriptions. I've known and dealt with Karl since the late 1970s, and I don't believe my returns have exceeded 3-4 coins in all of that time. -Preussen
"Illegitimis non carborundum" -General Joseph Stilwell. See my auctions
<< <i>No one is perfect, but I trust Karl as much as I've ever trusted any dealer when it comes to getting honest descriptions. I've known and dealt with Karl since the late 1970s, and I don't believe my returns have exceeded 3-4 coins in all of that time. -Preussen >>
I will second Pruessen and Dimitri on Karl. Many coins in my collection came from Karl, either off of his list or at various shows.
BU (MS-60); Nice BU (MS-61); Lovely BU (MS-62); Sharp BU (MS-63); Lovely Sharp BU (MS-64); Choice BU (MS-65); Lovely Choice BU (MS-66); Superb Choice BU (MS-67); Gem BU (MS-68)
hard to understand. To me BU would be MS 65+ at a push 64.
Unc would be 60-63.
That's the trouble when it comes to micro grading especially in Unc grades, it is very hard to represent each number with a description.
I have never purchased from Karl and will have a look at his list with his grading terminology in mind. Thanks for the link and mention of the fractional farthings wybrit.
In a phone call a few months ago he told me, "I am going to be busy doing some grading for PCGS so you wont be able to reach me for a few days."
That's not an exact quote. But it's close.
I no longer buy coins from a text only list, unless it's an extremely rare hard-to-find coin that I've been looking for, for a very long time. I'm tired of the:
- have coin sent to me - I don't like coin - I send it back with the all the time involved of going to the PO or Mail Store, on top of paying for shipping.
That gets old real fast. YMMV
Even with mediocre pictures there's many coins I could rule out right from the start.
And even when I was interested in a coin on Karl's list, I had trouble reaching him on the phone. It would take many phone calls before I finally caught him at home. And by then the coins were already sold. And he doesn't even use email! So I've pretty much given up trying to buy coins from his list.
BUT ...
I have bought some very nice coins at very fair prices from him at shows. And he is a joy to talk to. He has an incredible amount of knowledge and experience. And I found him very friendly and willing to share it.
I really like the guy. I just wish someone would help him move into this century.
<< <i>As Preussen pointed out, sharp BU is MS63 Doug, not 61. A choice BU is an MS65 as you can see in the list posted above. Once you get acquainted with his grading terminology it all becomes very simple, and he does have a return policy.
I have heard complaints before. Every now and again someone might occasionally be disappointed, you just can't please everybody. I'm among his big fans though.
Edited to add that I believe that Karl has been a PCGS grader in the past, and he still is their expert on Polish coins, which explains why his grading falls so closely with PCGS when his raw coins are submitted. >>
no, you're right Dimitri. I actually meant to say the 'Nice BU', which is the MS61. I'm with Hus though, growing up with coin grading BU was always at least MS63; you start putting other descriptors on in front of it for MS64,5,6, etc. Frankly, before him, i've never seen another reputable dealer using BU for MS60 coins. Every coin i've ever seen graded as a true MS60, was anything but 'beautiful'.
I know, i'm parsing words but i'm not trying to be argumentative. It just seems a little funky to go against the grain. Lastly, I do however respect the fact that he isn't having them slabbed at PCGS, if he sometimes grades there. I think the two things don't, well, look good together. But then again David Hall still has his active coin business with all PCGS coins, but that is another discussion all together.
Unless I missed a memo or slept through "coin descriptions 101," , "BU" means "Brilliant Uncirculated," ...as in no wear from circulation, without any reference whatsoever to a numeric grade. Karl has used these descriptions (at least) since the mid 1970s, long before numeric grades were widely used. I would "assume" that he later added the numeric equivalents to his descriptive grades, not vice versa. -Preussen
"Illegitimis non carborundum" -General Joseph Stilwell. See my auctions
I dunno... I understand his strong reputation and believe it to well deserved BUT...
1) Sure, his grading descriptors are consistent and explained online, however they are not (so far as I recall) outlined on the printed sales list where purchase decisions are made. He is indeed a strict grader, and Preussen's explanation that BU can be any range of Unc might hold.. but it is simply the overwhelming practice in the industry for BU to be reserved for higher quality UNCs. "Nice", "sharp", etc in his usage amount to a code that leaves many frustrated after a few misunderstandings and returns (though he is pleasant to deal with on returns). It might be the way it's been done now and forever, but that doesn't make it right.
2) Here's where I'll get controversial: His reputation is perhaps understated when it comes to those more "special" items (thinking the sorts of things in D' and Preussen's realm), but for the routine $50-$100 and under stuff I have had more "issues" with his descriptions than perhaps anyone else. I dare say it almost seems that he doesn't maintain his standards with those things that don't fully capture his interest.
I could be wrong, often am. But unless I see a must have item on his list, I've stopped buying from it. Just too frustrating.
Comments
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
<< <i>He does sometimes carry some good stuff, but it's 2009, who puts out a PDF list with no images on the web? >>
Karl does.....................................he's very, very old school.
karlgoetzmedals.com
secessionistmedals.com
<< <i>He does sometimes carry some good stuff, but it's 2009, who puts out a PDF list with no images on the web? >>
Karl does, and when he says it's sharp BU for ex. you can be sure that it's at least that or better. I haven't been able to locate anything in his past 3-4 lists, and that's very upsetting. Combined with my lack of trips to US shows due to the recession, where he'd always be the first table I'd hit, I'm in serious need of a good KS fix soon.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
Not only didn't Karl have an image of BHM 820 in his latest list, neither did Brown in British Historical Medals.
It worked out just fine tho!
Conder Token Gallery https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMCiunai6NjOxoo3zREkCsAnNm4vONzieO3u7tHyhm8peZmRD_A0MXmnWT2dzJ-nw?key=Rlo2YklUSWtEY1NWc3BfVm90ZEUwU25jLUZueG9n
<< <i>
<< <i>He does sometimes carry some good stuff, but it's 2009, who puts out a PDF list with no images on the web? >>
Karl does, and when he says it's sharp BU for ex. you can be sure that it's at least that or better. I haven't been able to locate anything in his past 3-4 lists, and that's very upsetting. Combined with my lack of trips to US shows due to the recession, where he'd always be the first table I'd hit, I'm in serious need of a good KS fix soon. >>
my experience has been the opposite, especially since his 'sharp BU' is nothing more than an MS61 according his own website. Besides him, i've never heard someone call a sharp BU to something that is usually quite bag marked and abraded as the numerical grade is; MS61 is barely uncirculated. Couple that with the cleaned coins i've received, and I won't be buying from him sight-unseen again anytime soon.
Switzerland-Zürich-Rüti 1906 23mm SHOOTING Medal by Holy-Freres. R-1792a; M-1072. 2
shields over village view / Bust of Helvetia rt. Rare, only 70 struck. Sharp BU.· · · · · · · · · · 750.00
But alas it is just text. Oh well, move along.
BU (MS-60);
Nice BU (MS-61);
Lovely BU (MS-62);
Sharp BU (MS-63);
Lovely Sharp BU (MS-64);
Choice BU (MS-65);
Lovely Choice BU (MS-66);
Superb Choice BU (MS-67);
Gem BU (MS-68)
-Preussen
I have heard complaints before. Every now and again someone might occasionally be disappointed, you just can't please everybody. I'm among his big fans though.
Edited to add that I believe that Karl has been a PCGS grader in the past, and he still is their expert on Polish coins, which explains why his grading falls so closely with PCGS when his raw coins are submitted.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
<< <i>No one is perfect, but I trust Karl as much as I've ever trusted any dealer when it comes to getting honest descriptions. I've known and dealt with Karl since the late 1970s, and I don't believe my returns have exceeded 3-4 coins in all of that time. -Preussen >>
I will second Pruessen and Dimitri on Karl. Many coins in my collection came from Karl, either off of his list or at various shows.
3Mark
Well, just Love coins, period.
BU (MS-60);
Nice BU (MS-61);
Lovely BU (MS-62);
Sharp BU (MS-63);
Lovely Sharp BU (MS-64);
Choice BU (MS-65);
Lovely Choice BU (MS-66);
Superb Choice BU (MS-67);
Gem BU (MS-68)
hard to understand. To me BU would be MS 65+ at a push 64.
Unc would be 60-63.
That's the trouble when it comes to micro grading especially in Unc grades, it is very hard to represent each number with a description.
I have never purchased from Karl and will have a look at his list with his grading terminology in mind.
Thanks for the link and mention of the fractional farthings wybrit.
<< <i>I believe he may involved in the grading of other European coins at PCGS as well.... >>
I've heard his name bandied about as a consultant on certain issues, but as an active dealer he should not be involved in grading PCGS submissions.
That's not an exact quote. But it's close.
I no longer buy coins from a text only list, unless it's an extremely rare hard-to-find coin that I've been looking for, for a very long time. I'm tired of the:
- have coin sent to me
- I don't like coin
- I send it back with the all the time involved of going to the PO or Mail Store, on top of paying for shipping.
That gets old real fast. YMMV
Even with mediocre pictures there's many coins I could rule out right from the start.
And even when I was interested in a coin on Karl's list, I had trouble reaching him on the phone. It would take many phone calls before I finally caught him at home. And by then the coins were already sold. And he doesn't even use email! So I've pretty much given up trying to buy coins from his list.
BUT ...
I have bought some very nice coins at very fair prices from him at shows. And he is a joy to talk to. He has an incredible amount of knowledge and experience. And I found him very friendly and willing to share it.
I really like the guy. I just wish someone would help him move into this century.
<< <i>As Preussen pointed out, sharp BU is MS63 Doug, not 61. A choice BU is an MS65 as you can see in the list posted above. Once you get acquainted with his grading terminology it all becomes very simple, and he does have a return policy.
I have heard complaints before. Every now and again someone might occasionally be disappointed, you just can't please everybody. I'm among his big fans though.
Edited to add that I believe that Karl has been a PCGS grader in the past, and he still is their expert on Polish coins, which explains why his grading falls so closely with PCGS when his raw coins are submitted. >>
no, you're right Dimitri. I actually meant to say the 'Nice BU', which is the MS61. I'm with Hus though, growing up with coin grading BU was always at least MS63; you start putting other descriptors on in front of it for MS64,5,6, etc. Frankly, before him, i've never seen another reputable dealer using BU for MS60 coins. Every coin i've ever seen graded as a true MS60, was anything but 'beautiful'.
I know, i'm parsing words but i'm not trying to be argumentative. It just seems a little funky to go against the grain. Lastly, I do however respect the fact that he isn't having them slabbed at PCGS, if he sometimes grades there. I think the two things don't, well, look good together. But then again David Hall still has his active coin business with all PCGS coins, but that is another discussion all together.
1) Sure, his grading descriptors are consistent and explained online, however they are not (so far as I recall) outlined on the printed sales list where purchase decisions are made. He is indeed a strict grader, and Preussen's explanation that BU can be any range of Unc might hold.. but it is simply the overwhelming practice in the industry for BU to be reserved for higher quality UNCs. "Nice", "sharp", etc in his usage amount to a code that leaves many frustrated after a few misunderstandings and returns (though he is pleasant to deal with on returns). It might be the way it's been done now and forever, but that doesn't make it right.
2) Here's where I'll get controversial: His reputation is perhaps understated when it comes to those more "special" items (thinking the sorts of things in D' and Preussen's realm), but for the routine $50-$100 and under stuff I have had more "issues" with his descriptions than perhaps anyone else. I dare say it almost seems that he doesn't maintain his standards with those things that don't fully capture his interest.
I could be wrong, often am. But unless I see a must have item on his list, I've stopped buying from it. Just too frustrating.
My wantlist & references
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