Rainbow Crecents and old holders.

relicsncoins

Does anyone have an example of rainbow crecent toning on a Morgan in a PCGS rattler, Early NGC or early ANA (pre anacs) slab? I'm not talking about that type of toning that Ebay sellers call rainbow in the old ANA slabs that was clearly caused by the slab itself, but a true rainbow crecent such as this:




JJ

ricko

I did, but I cracked them out and dipped them..... resubmitted and got a higher grade. Cheers, RickO

JupitarCoins

<< <i>I did, but I cracked them out and dipped them..... resubmitted and got a higher grade. Cheers, RickO >>



Do you have any before and after pics?

CopperWire

the sarcasm really hurts the educational aspect of this board.

TonedCoinTrader

<<<<<<the sarcasm really hurts the educational aspect of this board. >>>>>>>>



Here are some oldies but goodies...

relicsncoins

That 88 O is nice looking.

relicsncoins

I may get flamed for this, but I've often wondered why there are so few rainbow toners in early holders. As many toners that there are out there, I would expect to see a sizable sample in old holders. I know there are people that will say that most of the old holders have been cracked and re-submitted looking for upgrades, but there should still be some. I've never seen one in a first generation PCGS or embossed NGC or early ANA slab. I see alot of Morgans with the old Anacs photo certificates, and I've never seen one with rainbow toning. I believe that rainbow toning can occur naturaly such as in classic bag toning, but I just can't buy that this toning can not be replicated.

We as the human race have invented manned flight, put men on the moon, split the atom, and a whole host of other mind boggling inventions, yet I'm to believe a Morgan silver dollar can not be toned in this classic rainbow pattern except through mother nature?

blu62vette

TonedCoinTrader

If you Really more info and want to see more toned coins in Rattlers and older holders check out the TCCT Boards and look through the posts.

There are members there that were around when Mint Bags of Morgans were opened and Many dealers dipped them immediately because back in the day White was worth more...

Scott

Bochiman

<< <i>I may get flamed for this, but I've often wondered why there are so few rainbow toners in early holders. As many toners that there are out there, I would expect to see a sizable sample in old holders. I know there are people that will say that most of the old holders have been cracked and re-submitted looking for upgrades, but there should still be some. I've never seen one in a first generation PCGS or embossed NGC or early ANA slab. I see alot of Morgans with the old Anacs photo certificates, and I've never seen one with rainbow toning. I believe that rainbow toning can occur naturaly such as in classic bag toning, but I just can't buy that this toning can not be replicated.

We as the human race have invented manned flight, put men on the moon, split the atom, and a whole host of other mind boggling inventions, yet I'm to believe a Morgan silver dollar can not be toned in this classic rainbow pattern except through mother nature? >>



I can understand where you are coming from on that question.....
What I think, from putting bits and pieces together, since I wasn't collecting then, is that, until "recently", toning was a knock on the coin. So, coins that were "holder worthy", at a specific grade/saleability, were more likely to be dipped so as to be more marketable and white.
Then, once toning started getting a premium, these MS63 and other lower priced coins, that weren't worth slabbing, were now worth it, since they would sell at multiples.

And, there is the hidden supposition in your post, that they were quickly toned by man-made means
(well, maybe not so hidden )


If my thoughts are errant on the above, I wouldn't hold offense if anyone had reasonable knowledge on it. Like I said, I wasn't collecting then, but have put bits and pieces together from what I have heard over time.

relicsncoins

<< <i>

<< <i>I may get flamed for this, but I've often wondered why there are so few rainbow toners in early holders. As many toners that there are out there, I would expect to see a sizable sample in old holders. I know there are people that will say that most of the old holders have been cracked and re-submitted looking for upgrades, but there should still be some. I've never seen one in a first generation PCGS or embossed NGC or early ANA slab. I see alot of Morgans with the old Anacs photo certificates, and I've never seen one with rainbow toning. I believe that rainbow toning can occur naturaly such as in classic bag toning, but I just can't buy that this toning can not be replicated.

We as the human race have invented manned flight, put men on the moon, split the atom, and a whole host of other mind boggling inventions, yet I'm to believe a Morgan silver dollar can not be toned in this classic rainbow pattern except through mother nature? >>



I can understand where you are coming from on that question.....
What I think, from putting bits and pieces together, since I wasn't collecting then, is that, until "recently", toning was a knock on the coin. So, coins that were "holder worthy", at a specific grade/saleability, were more likely to be dipped so as to be more marketable and white.
Then, once toning started getting a premium, these MS63 and other lower priced coins, that weren't worth slabbing, were now worth it, since they would sell at multiples.

And, there is the hidden supposition in your post, that they were quickly toned by man-made means
(well, maybe not so hidden )


If my thoughts are errant on the above, I wouldn't hold offense if anyone had reasonable knowledge on it. Like I said, I wasn't collecting then, but have put bits and pieces together from what I have heard over time. >>



I do believe that mint bag toning is legitimate, but I also believe that it's far more rare then the amount of toners you see here, on ebay and other boards on a daily basis. I was collecting in the late 70's and early 80's and was in quite a few coin shops in Montana and I just don't recall seeing rainbow toning to the extent you see it now. Montana was abig hard money state and silver dollars were plenitiful.

We had a family freind who had an original bag and every Holiday, he would give these coins away as gifts. I remember at my parent's New Year's Ever party for several years in a row, there was a small fake Christmas tree with 50 or more silver dollars hanging from it for each guest to take home and I don't recall seeing one toner in the bunch. Of the 20 or so I recieved over the years for birthdays and biggest fish contests etc. Not one of them is toned, and I saw the original mint bag these came from.

FredF

<< <i>once toning started getting a premium, these MS63 and other lower priced coins, that weren't worth slabbing, were now worth it, since they would sell at multiples. >>



What are rational multiples for good rainbow toning? My YN saw a rainbow toner at a show as we were leaving, and then had his heart set on one. Well, looking at some of the sites, coins that were running in the $30-$40 range in MS63 were running over $100 with cool rainbow toning.

We got very fortunate - was in a coin store and in the last display counter, my other YN saw a beautiful 53-S Roosevelt which looked album toned with a gorgeous rainbow ring on both obverse and reverse. The kids fell in love. The price tag was double normal cost for a BU raw 53-S, around $10. The dealer knocked a couple bucks off because it was for the kids. So now my YNs can check the "Rainbow" box on their type set .

TonedCoinTrader

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<We had a family freind who had an original bag and every Holiday, he would give these coins away as gifts. I remember at my parent's New Year's Ever party for several years in a row, there was a small fake Christmas tree that 50 or more silver dollars hanging from it for each guest to take home and I don't recally seeing one toner in the bunch. Of the 20 or so I recieved over the years for birthdays and biggest fish contests etc. Not one of them is toned.>>>>>>>>>>>


The bag was not sitting in a bank vault for many many years undisturbed so it is unlikely they would have gotten the type of rainbow toning you are asking about.

Some of them may have gotten nice or light toning and maybe he kept or cleaned the toned coins... Just a thought...

relicsncoins

<< <i><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<We had a family freind who had an original bag and every Holiday, he would give these coins away as gifts. I remember at my parent's New Year's Ever party for several years in a row, there was a small fake Christmas tree that 50 or more silver dollars hanging from it for each guest to take home and I don't recally seeing one toner in the bunch. Of the 20 or so I recieved over the years for birthdays and biggest fish contests etc. Not one of them is toned.>>>>>>>>>>>


The bag was not sitting in a bank vault for many many years undisturbed so it is unlikely they would have gotten the type of rainbow toning you are asking about.

Some of them may have gotten nice or light toning and maybe he kept or cleaned the toned coins... Just a thought... >>



I can't say how the coins were stored, but I do know that he purchased them from a bank in the late 60's or early 70's for close to face value. Of the 200 or so coins I saw from the bag, every one of them was white uncirculated.

Here is an example of a coin from this bag. As far as condition goes it's the best of the buch I recieved.

Bochiman

JJ - would he have just taken out, and given away, the "clean ones"?
Kind of like what the GSA did, right? They thought the toned ones were "damaged goods" when they did the GSA holders, right?
Regardless, it's cool what he did


FredF - what's a "correct" multiple? Depends on what you are comfortable with and if it is for you or for profit. I haven't bought many, but the ones I have bought have only been a few bucks (or$10-$20+) over the regular price without toning. I have bought them from dealers that don't do the toning craze. I have passed by many nicely toned ones because they wanted hundreds over what an untoned one would go for.

relicsncoins

<< <i>JJ - would he have just taken out, and given away, the "clean ones"?
Kind of like what the GSA did, right? They thought the toned ones were "damaged goods" when they did the GSA holders, right?
Regardless, it's cool what he did


FredF - what's a "correct" multiple? Depends on what you are comfortable with and if it is for you or for profit. I haven't bought many, but the ones I have bought have only been a few bucks (or$10-$20+) over the regular price without toning. I have bought them from dealers that don't do the toning craze. I have passed by many nicely toned ones because they wanted hundreds over what an untoned one would go for. >>



Anything is possible. I wish I could've went through the bag 1 by 1. Unfortunately this man passed away about 12 years ago, so I can't ask him any of these questions. I remember my parents telling me that he retired from General Mills, and while working there he invented Cherrios. I don't know if it's true or not.

JJ

anablep

relicsncoins

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That's the common toning I see in old holders, but I don't consider that rainbow, it's that blue to russet toning.

PCcoins

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That's the common toning I see in old holders, but I don't consider that rainbow, it's that blue to russet toning. >>



That would be album toning, not bag toning. But still looks nice