My 16 Walking Liberty Half grade question

veryfine

This 1916 WLH is a PCGS MS-64 (CAC) and one of my favorite coins. As usual, the scan presented here does not accurately display the luster on this coin. However, not a bad image.
My question is for Walker experts, but all opinions are welcome.
Why didn't this coin make it to the 65 level? I realize the difficulty in grading from a scanned image, but give it a try. The coin is lustrous with a nice strike, despite some weakness here and there. It is also minimally marked. Perhaps the shortcomings are obvious, but I just don't see them.
Please enlighten me, as I am not a WLH expert.

Kdog08

Possibly some die polishing in the field. Also, am I seeing a hit below the breast? If so, that may be part of it. I'm not an expert, just a fan of the series!

ACactions

I see luster breaks, looks like you have a mark on the right chest just below the breast plate, there are some "chatter" in the fields as well-while a good strike there is weakness-

Appears to be a contact mark above the motto- I think it is a nice 64 but I believe luster is the MAJOR inhibitor from 65


John

DennisH

With Morgans (the area with which I'm by far most familiar), absence of marks is just one ingredient for high grades. In addition, I believe PCGS also wants a certain "look" for the MS65 grade... a combination of lustre, strike, and freedom from distractions that adds up to a level of eye appeal causes the coin to have an instant visual "pop" when you first see it. I've been told that dies for early date Walkers were simply not made in such a way that the coins would have very much "pop". I know it's a poor explanation, but it's the best I can do.

veryfine

There's plenty of luster, but unfortunately, the scan does not show this.
However, as some of you are saying, the luster might not be strong enough for a 65.

WoodenJefferson

Posted this response before reading any previous to this one:

It would be virtually impossible to determine a MS-64 grade vs. the much sought after MS-65 grade in a web forum environment.

This can only be done in real time with correct lighting and perhaps some aided magnification.

Although the Walker displays some characteristics of being a, quote, “65ish” coin, something we cannot detect in an image held it back from a solid higher grade.

Would I have this coin in my collection? Definitely! Nice looking Walking Liberty, you should be proud to hold this as your own.

veryfine

<< <i>Posted this response before reading any previous to this one:

It would be virtually impossible to determine a MS-64 grade vs. the much sought after MS-65 grade in a web forum environment.

This can only be done in real time with correct lighting and perhaps some aided magnification.

Although the Walker displays some characteristics of being a, quote, “65ish” coin, something we cannot detect in an image held it back from a solid higher grade.

Would I have this coin in my collection? Definitely! Nice looking Walking Liberty, you should be proud to hold this as your own. >>


Thanks WoodenJefferson.
A smart assessment on your part.
Just so everybody knows, I am pleased with the coin and I am not looking for an upgrade, nor am I whining about my "lowly 64." I am simply looking for some grading insight that can only add to my coin collecting pleasure.
By the way, a 65 is too expensive, so I "settled" for an attractive 64.

ricko

Very nice Walker, I would say mainly field chatter and hit below breast... But a nice 64.... I would have it in my collection.. Cheers, RickO

kaz

That's a a beautiful coin, I don't feel qualified to opine as to the "true" grade tho.

supertooth

very fine----- My first impression of the coin is that "I like it". My second thought is to tell you what Woody said about grading from pictures. Simply better to see such a piece in hand. This is especially true when the value of such a coin jumps at least a thousand bucks from a 64 to a 65

But to try and offer some explanation for you to look for. One is to look in that field above the motto. Any hairlines there?? There appears to be some chatter there----minor scratching?? Also, the chatter below the left breast [ right as you look at the coin].

They want "luster" for a 65----Does it have enough?? Hard to tell from a picture.

The field right below the Eagle's beak----any hairlines or scratching there----appears to be slightly "lighter" there?

Some "minor" ticking above the "AW" along that rim.

Can't tell for sure---but how well is the "head area" struck up? If it is weak there, they will notice it.

Again, hard to tell----but, although the center skirt lines are NOT usually a determining factor as to grade----If none are visible above a parallel line going from the top of the "W" of WE----they might grade it a bit weak.

Has the coin ever been dipped and retoning?? It DOES NOT look it in my picture. In fact it looks pretty original to me. But, if anything has been done to it in its past that might have affected that "luster" a bit---then they will see that. Again, in hand, you could tell better.

Well, that is about it from me. From what I can see out of that picture, I do like the coin a lot. But, you just never know about such things----and they will err on the side of the lower grade these days it seems. Bob [supertooth]

JJM

ok,...ill go there............58 ?????????????

Walkerguy21D

Supertooth and AActions covered all my points and then some.
I will add though that I have seen coins in 65 holders that don't look as nice as this coin does in the pics.
As for Dennis' comment about absence of marks being but one determinant, look at this MS66 walker with a CAC
sticker on it using the Look Closer feature - it has far more marks on it, from what I can see, than your coin or any of my
numerous MS65 walkers:
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1128&Lot_No=1694

veryfine

<< <i>ok,...ill go there............58 ????????????? >>


No it's a pcgs 64 CAC approved. The question is referring to the coin
grading 64 but not 65.

veryfine

<< <i>Supertooth and AActions covered all my points and then some.
I will add though that I have seen coins in 65 holders that don't look as nice as this coin does in the pics.
As for Dennis' comment about absence of marks being but one determinant, look at this MS66 walker with a CAC
sticker on it using the Look Closer feature - it has far more marks on it, from what I can see, than your coin or any of my
numerous MS65 walkers:
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1128&Lot_No=1694 >>


Interesting observation Walkerguy21D.
If my coin is truly a 64, I am comfortable with that. Maybe I'll consider it an "almost 65."

OneCent

That is a MONSTER Walker!


I've been studying this series for a while now so I'll offer my "neophyte" grading opinion. Reverse is 65 all day long. A couple of minor hits and a typical strike (vs full details) hold the obverse to a 64.4. PCGS graded on the conservative side and gave it a 64. PQ 64 in my book and could go 65 on any given day.


btw, I recognize that this is a dated thread.