Exceptional set TDN. My guess is that many of those pics don't quite capture the lustre and fire on a lot of those coins, but you can just imagine how nice they are in person, and the color on a few of those is off the charts as far as Trade dollars go IMO :-)
BTW.........your 1878-S looks like someone wearing latex gloves caught that coin as the dies ejected it and put it into a 2X2 flip, except they didn't have latex gloves or flips in 1878.
I know coin-collecting isn't really a competitive activity (ha!) but the word that comes to my mind is dominant. Is there any possibility that there are 5 or 10 trade dollars that we don't know about (tucked away for at least a couple of generations) that would rival these?
<< <i>I know coin-collecting isn't really a competitive activity (ha!) but the word that comes to my mind is dominant. Is there any possibility that there are 5 or 10 trade dollars that we don't know about (tucked away for at least a couple of generations) that would rival these? >>
There is always that possibility. The 73-CC came from the Vermeule Collection - held by the family for almost a century. The 1878-S came from the Seattle Hoard. Here's the story of that find:
MINI-HOARD OF 1878-S TRADE DOLLARS
The following mini-hoard of 1878-S Trade Dollars is one of the many highlights offered in the 1990 ANA Sale. The story behind their discovery and inclusion in this sale is incredible. The consignor, (who we will call "Jim") one of the nicest and most pleasant people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, had elderly next door neighbors that he was very close to. He would help and befriend them whenever the opportunity arose. Little did "Jim" know what was in store. Upon the death of the elderly couple, "Jim" was named executor of the estate - what little there seemed to be - and two requests were made; all financial instruments were to be left to a local university and all personal property would go to the executor. "Jim" went to the bank and opened the safe deposit box. Not expecting to see a great deal, he was taken back by the wealth before his eyes. The wealth however appeared to be all financial and thus left to the university. Among the tens of thousands of dollars in stocks and bonds there was also over $1 million in bearer bonds. Upon removal of all the papers, on the bottom of the drawer, just lying loose, were 25 1878-S Trade Dollars! As wonderful as this seemed, there was a dilemma. Were the coins "financial " and thus property of the university, or were they personal and thus the property of "Jim." After long discussions with the attorneys, it was decided that the coins would be divided equally - with 13 coins going to the university and the remaining 12 coins to "Jim."
The university immediately sold their coins to a local coin dealer. This dealer in turn sold them to a major west coast firm who submitted them to PCGS who in turn graded them mostly MS-65, with a few MS-64's and (2) MS-66. Point of fact: every known 1878-S Trade Dollar grading MS-65 or higher (at the time of this writing) can be traced back to this hoard of 25 coins. The only exception being the lone MS-67, which, as justice would have it, is also included in this incredible sale!
That is one (select any adjective of your choice) of a set!!!!!!!!!
PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows. I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
Damn, those are nice! Thanks for sharing. Cool story about the 78-S hoard. Too bad for "Jim" trade dollars were remonetized, otherwise he could have kept all 25.
<< <i>The 1878-S came from the Seattle Hoard. Here's the story of that find:
MINI-HOARD OF 1878-S TRADE DOLLARS
The following mini-hoard of 1878-S Trade Dollars is one of the many highlights offered in the 1990 ANA Sale. The story behind their discovery and inclusion in this sale is incredible. The consignor, (who we will call "Jim") one of the nicest and most pleasant people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, had elderly next door neighbors that he was very close to. He would help and befriend them whenever the opportunity arose. Little did "Jim" know what was in store. Upon the death of the elderly couple, "Jim" was named executor of the estate - what little there seemed to be - and two requests were made; all financial instruments were to be left to a local university and all personal property would go to the executor. "Jim" went to the bank and opened the safe deposit box. Not expecting to see a great deal, he was taken back by the wealth before his eyes. The wealth however appeared to be all financial and thus left to the university. Among the tens of thousands of dollars in stocks and bonds there was also over $1 million in bearer bonds. Upon removal of all the papers, on the bottom of the drawer, just lying loose, were 25 1878-S Trade Dollars! As wonderful as this seemed, there was a dilemma. Were the coins "financial " and thus property of the university, or were they personal and thus the property of "Jim." After long discussions with the attorneys, it was decided that the coins would be divided equally - with 13 coins going to the university and the remaining 12 coins to "Jim."
The university immediately sold their coins to a local coin dealer. This dealer in turn sold them to a major west coast firm who submitted them to PCGS who in turn graded them mostly MS-65, with a few MS-64's and (2) MS-66. Point of fact: every known 1878-S Trade Dollar grading MS-65 or higher (at the time of this writing) can be traced back to this hoard of 25 coins. The only exception being the lone MS-67, which, as justice would have it, is also included in this incredible sale! >>
Good thing "Jim" didn't try to sell his on eBay (had it been around). Someone on the CU forum would have posted a link to the auction asking how anyone could believe such a story...
<< <i>Is there a known coin out there somewhere that would improve this set? >>
Here are the coins that I know about that are either certified higher or could be upgrades:
1873-S NGC MS67 - this is the Eliasberg coin, graded MS64 in the catalog and realized MS65 money at the sale. I grade it MS65+
1877 NGC MS66 - don't know where this coin is but I've been told it has flat stars which would preclude a cross.
1877-S RAW - in the personal collection of a prominant person in numismatics
1878-S PCGS MS68 - Don't care for this coin as it has negative eye appeal for the grade. >>
Just to be clear - my question was about coins which would actually be improvements over anything you have, not merely coins which were in higher holders. So it sounds like the answer is maybe 2. Maybe.
Oh and since you have the world's finest collection of TD's, now you should bookend it, and promptly begin a collection of the world's worst (natural wear only, no cheating!)
I'm reading a book on the Carson City mint. (The James Crawford book).
What strikes me is how this book represents that Trade Dollars were not terribly accepted by the public at the time of their release.
It states that some local merchants would accept them for 90 cents on the dollar, some even less.
In fact, the book quotes many papers across the US, positively trashing this series in various ways. I suppose this is one of the things that makes a rare coin...if it is hated at the time of it's release and loved many years later.
<< <i>Oh and since you have the world's finest collection of TD's, now you should bookend it, and promptly begin a collection of the world's worst (natural wear only, no cheating!) >>
Sounds interesting adam, and certainly (given the nature of the coin's reason for being) was it ever intended to circulate? For that matter large regular silver dollars were none too popular either. Hence the bags and bags of them that helped grow and supply enthusiastic collectors of today. TDN I'm sure can provide you with more insightful info.
From this book, i'm getting the impression that newspapers of the time were about as curmudgeony as they come.
There were an awful lot of silver boosters in the Carson City area of course.
Yet, there was not a whole lot of praise for the Morgan Dollar design either, neither the artistic aspects of the design nor the technical aspects of the dies shipped to Carson City.
I think the negativity must be taken with a grain of salt; considered within the context of the times. It seems that everything printed in the media had a motive of some sort.
Perhaps when I am done reading, I should do a book review. It is a very large book and I am having difficulty sitting down and pounding through it.
About Trade Dollars, one of the phrases from a late 1800s New York paper went something along the lines of "these underweight things were designed to swindle the indians and chinese".
Goodness!
I've always been impressed with the design and execution of this type of coin. But I was raised in a different world, where folks respect this type coin.
<< <i> I suppose this is one of the things that makes a rare coin...if it is hated at the time of it's release and loved many years later. >>
That's it, I'm starting a best of the SBA collection now.
Thank you TDN, I will be leaving the computer on to start tomorrow on page one of this thread (which I haven't seen yet in full) to start my day with coin porn.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me Adam! Obviously you are enjoying that book, and getting a lot out of it -- would you say it's a book that could be read casually, or do you really need to be "into it" to enjoy it fully?
Funny how the more things change... coins we enjoy as classics today were derided in their time, by some... I'm sure someone liked them then, anyway!
Have you ever thought about writing a book. I would find it interesting to hear the history of each coin, how you found them, your favorites, etc. I promise to buy a copy if you do. Of course that would be 40% off.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
Comments
your nick is completely wrong......
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it shoud be TradedollarKING - or even T-KING!!
What a gorgeous display of coins
LA KINGS #11 - KOPITAR
K S
That's an incredible set!!
Spectacular coins!
Thank you for sharing them!
<< <i>Stunning. >>
Beautiful set, brother.
Who is John Galt?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I know coin-collecting isn't really a competitive activity (ha!) but the word that comes to my mind is dominant. Is there any possibility that there are 5 or 10 trade dollars that we don't know about (tucked away for at least a couple of generations) that would rival these? >>
There is always that possibility. The 73-CC came from the Vermeule Collection - held by the family for almost a century. The 1878-S came from the Seattle Hoard. Here's the story of that find:
MINI-HOARD OF 1878-S TRADE DOLLARS
The following mini-hoard of 1878-S Trade Dollars is one of the many highlights offered in the 1990 ANA Sale. The story behind their discovery and inclusion in this sale is incredible. The consignor, (who we will call "Jim") one of the nicest and most pleasant people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, had elderly next door neighbors that he was very close to. He would help and befriend them whenever the opportunity arose. Little did "Jim" know what was in store. Upon the death of the elderly couple, "Jim" was named executor of the estate - what little there seemed to be - and two requests were made; all financial instruments were to be left to a local university and all personal property would go to the executor. "Jim" went to the bank and opened the safe deposit box. Not expecting to see a great deal, he was taken back by the wealth before his eyes. The wealth however appeared to be all financial and thus left to the university. Among the tens of thousands of dollars in stocks and bonds there was also over $1 million in bearer bonds. Upon removal of all the papers, on the bottom of the drawer, just lying loose, were 25 1878-S Trade Dollars! As wonderful as this seemed, there was a dilemma. Were the coins "financial " and thus property of the university, or were they personal and thus the property of "Jim." After long discussions with the attorneys, it was decided that the coins would be divided equally - with 13 coins going to the university and the remaining 12 coins to "Jim."
The university immediately sold their coins to a local coin dealer. This dealer in turn sold them to a major west coast firm who submitted them to PCGS who in turn graded them mostly MS-65, with a few MS-64's and (2) MS-66. Point of fact: every known 1878-S Trade Dollar grading MS-65 or higher (at the time of this writing) can be traced back to this hoard of 25 coins. The only exception being the lone MS-67, which, as justice would have it, is also included in this incredible sale!
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>The 1878-S came from the Seattle Hoard. Here's the story of that find:
MINI-HOARD OF 1878-S TRADE DOLLARS
The following mini-hoard of 1878-S Trade Dollars is one of the many highlights offered in the 1990 ANA Sale. The story behind their discovery and inclusion in this sale is incredible. The consignor, (who we will call "Jim") one of the nicest and most pleasant people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, had elderly next door neighbors that he was very close to. He would help and befriend them whenever the opportunity arose. Little did "Jim" know what was in store. Upon the death of the elderly couple, "Jim" was named executor of the estate - what little there seemed to be - and two requests were made; all financial instruments were to be left to a local university and all personal property would go to the executor. "Jim" went to the bank and opened the safe deposit box. Not expecting to see a great deal, he was taken back by the wealth before his eyes. The wealth however appeared to be all financial and thus left to the university. Among the tens of thousands of dollars in stocks and bonds there was also over $1 million in bearer bonds. Upon removal of all the papers, on the bottom of the drawer, just lying loose, were 25 1878-S Trade Dollars! As wonderful as this seemed, there was a dilemma. Were the coins "financial " and thus property of the university, or were they personal and thus the property of "Jim." After long discussions with the attorneys, it was decided that the coins would be divided equally - with 13 coins going to the university and the remaining 12 coins to "Jim."
The university immediately sold their coins to a local coin dealer. This dealer in turn sold them to a major west coast firm who submitted them to PCGS who in turn graded them mostly MS-65, with a few MS-64's and (2) MS-66. Point of fact: every known 1878-S Trade Dollar grading MS-65 or higher (at the time of this writing) can be traced back to this hoard of 25 coins. The only exception being the lone MS-67, which, as justice would have it, is also included in this incredible sale! >>
Good thing "Jim" didn't try to sell his on eBay (had it been around). Someone on the CU forum would have posted a link to the auction
asking how anyone could believe such a story...
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
Keep taking good care of that 73 Philly ...
K
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i>Is there a known coin out there somewhere that would improve this set? >>
Here are the coins that I know about that are either certified higher or could be upgrades:
1873-S NGC MS67 - this is the Eliasberg coin, graded MS64 in the catalog and realized MS65 money at the sale. I grade it MS65+
1877 NGC MS66 - don't know where this coin is but I've been told it has flat stars which would preclude a cross.
1877-S RAW - in the personal collection of a prominant person in numismatics
1878-S PCGS MS68 - Don't care for this coin as it has negative eye appeal for the grade.
<< <i>
<< <i>Is there a known coin out there somewhere that would improve this set? >>
Here are the coins that I know about that are either certified higher or could be upgrades:
1873-S NGC MS67 - this is the Eliasberg coin, graded MS64 in the catalog and realized MS65 money at the sale. I grade it MS65+
1877 NGC MS66 - don't know where this coin is but I've been told it has flat stars which would preclude a cross.
1877-S RAW - in the personal collection of a prominant person in numismatics
1878-S PCGS MS68 - Don't care for this coin as it has negative eye appeal for the grade. >>
Just to be clear - my question was about coins which would actually be improvements over anything you have, not merely coins which were in higher holders. So it sounds like the answer is maybe 2. Maybe.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
Good luck continually pursuing upgrades, if any exist; perhaps there are more bank box stories to be told, somehow, somewhere?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
What strikes me is how this book represents that Trade Dollars were not terribly accepted by the public at the time of their release.
It states that some local merchants would accept them for 90 cents on the dollar, some even less.
In fact, the book quotes many papers across the US, positively trashing this series in various ways.
I suppose this is one of the things that makes a rare coin...if it is hated at the time of it's release and loved many years later.
<< <i>Oh and since you have the world's finest collection of TD's, now you should bookend it, and promptly begin a collection of the world's worst (natural wear only, no cheating!)
I have definitely considered that!
There were an awful lot of silver boosters in the Carson City area of course.
Yet, there was not a whole lot of praise for the Morgan Dollar design either, neither the artistic aspects of the design nor the technical aspects of the dies shipped to Carson City.
I think the negativity must be taken with a grain of salt; considered within the context of the times. It seems that everything printed in the media had a motive of some sort.
Perhaps when I am done reading, I should do a book review. It is a very large book and I am having difficulty sitting down and pounding through it.
About Trade Dollars, one of the phrases from a late 1800s New York paper went something along the lines of "these underweight things were designed to swindle the indians and chinese".
Goodness!
I've always been impressed with the design and execution of this type of coin. But I was raised in a different world, where folks respect this type coin.
[minor edits]
<< <i>
I suppose this is one of the things that makes a rare coin...if it is hated at the time of it's release and loved many years later. >>
That's it, I'm starting a best of the SBA collection now.
Thank you TDN, I will be leaving the computer on to start tomorrow on page one of this thread (which I haven't seen yet in full) to start my day with coin porn.
What a pleasure to view.
Thank you for sharing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>Funny they'd call them underweight, since they were heavier/more content than a regular silver dollar!
I was paraphrasing and was incorrect about them being called literally underweight.
On page 323, there is a snippet of an article from the Carson Morning Appeal paper.
It was making light of how "Trade Dollars" were floating around as reported by a New York paper. By "float" that paper meant circulate.
The Carson City Paper twisted the words. By "float" they implied that the coins must have lost alot of weight. It certainly does imply negativity.
For whatever reason, lots of derision was heaped on this coin by lots of folks in the 1870s and 1880s.
I, too, did not think they ever circulated. Apparently they did a bit and were not particularly loved.
Funny how the more things change... coins we enjoy as classics today were derided in their time, by some... I'm sure someone liked them then, anyway!
Andy
U Da Man!
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>Beautiful - thanks for sharing.
Ditto.
An amazing accomplishment.
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