My first experience at a B & M a long time ago...never will forget...
Bcsican
Posts: 1,068
All this talk lately reminded me of my first experiences with a B&M a very long time ago. When I was about 11 or 12, 1965 or 1966 I had been visiting my local B&M for a few short months. Trading coins I had for ones I wanted more, the deals were minimal but was happy with the trades. Had my eyes on a $20 St Gaudens but was just too expensive for me at the time. I worked every weekend doing yardwork for the neighbors pulling weeds, mowing yards, etc. I knew getting that coin it was not going to be easy, saving $75.00 for price of the coin. But I was determined.
Eyed a very nice & clean 1927 St Gaudens in this shop, free of marks, tons of luster, even then I knew what to look for. So made the decision trading most all I had accumulated as a down payment, with payments paid weekly from yardwork from the neighbors, they all paid when finshed so knew I could do a layaway. The coin was seventy-five dollars tax included. My trades for a down payment was about thirty-five dollars with a balance of thiry-five paid in small amounts each week. I never was so excited knowing in a few short weeks that 1927 St was going to be mine. All I could think about every week going into the shop with weekly earnings chipping away at my purchase price. Even remember the payments sometimes in change, a payment might be something like $8.42, everything I had went to that coin.
One day when making a payment was admiring how beautiful that coin was, it truly was a stunner to my eyes. There is also this guy in the shop. Well lets call him a jerk, I had seen him many times stopping by this local B&M just had the demeaner of swine, even a kid could pick out who would be a loser later in life. This guy was it. He was often shooting the breeze with the owner when I happened to stop in. Uncouth to say the least. This was my next to last payment, knew I could have it paid off the following week. This after five weeks of payments. As IM looking over the coin this "guy" looking over my shoulder sees what a beauty IM holding and asks to see it.
After giving it a long once over he asks the owner why did he not ever show him "my" coin. Owner mumbles this kid saw it first. I still can remember the feeling handing the coin to this "guy" made me feel creepy. I left the shop knowing the following week that coin was going to be mine. It is a feeling I will never forget. IM up early the next Sat, I want to get all my work done so I can pick up my coin. So excited instead of riding my bike downtown I ask my mom for a ride to pick it up, something id never do, after all I had a bike and two good legs is what I was always told.
Getting to the shop make my final payment not even looking over the coin that had been housed in the same envelope for almost six long weeks, showing all the payments made and paid in full. Getting into the car open envelope to see my new gem. My heart sank, I felt disappointed, I felf sick to my stomach, and I was extremly puzzled. Why was I holding a 1924 St and not a 1927 like I had orginally purchased? I felt duped, my feelings of my new coin was tainted, the SOB shop owner switched out my coin for a different year, not telling me. IM sure he figured dumb little kid will never know. I also know in my heart the week prior leaving that shop the jerk talked him into switching the coin so he could have it knowing I would never do anything or even notice. I knew it was switched I even know who got the coin but a kid what could I do, word against word, no proof. But I knew, and I never forgot. That was one of many simular experiences over the years at my local B&Ms. But the first one stung the hardest...and is something even to this day stirrs up emotions of so called honest dealers...IM positive there are excellent examples...but this one I remember as if it were yesterday. Not a good way to welcome kids to the world of coin collecting....
Eyed a very nice & clean 1927 St Gaudens in this shop, free of marks, tons of luster, even then I knew what to look for. So made the decision trading most all I had accumulated as a down payment, with payments paid weekly from yardwork from the neighbors, they all paid when finshed so knew I could do a layaway. The coin was seventy-five dollars tax included. My trades for a down payment was about thirty-five dollars with a balance of thiry-five paid in small amounts each week. I never was so excited knowing in a few short weeks that 1927 St was going to be mine. All I could think about every week going into the shop with weekly earnings chipping away at my purchase price. Even remember the payments sometimes in change, a payment might be something like $8.42, everything I had went to that coin.
One day when making a payment was admiring how beautiful that coin was, it truly was a stunner to my eyes. There is also this guy in the shop. Well lets call him a jerk, I had seen him many times stopping by this local B&M just had the demeaner of swine, even a kid could pick out who would be a loser later in life. This guy was it. He was often shooting the breeze with the owner when I happened to stop in. Uncouth to say the least. This was my next to last payment, knew I could have it paid off the following week. This after five weeks of payments. As IM looking over the coin this "guy" looking over my shoulder sees what a beauty IM holding and asks to see it.
After giving it a long once over he asks the owner why did he not ever show him "my" coin. Owner mumbles this kid saw it first. I still can remember the feeling handing the coin to this "guy" made me feel creepy. I left the shop knowing the following week that coin was going to be mine. It is a feeling I will never forget. IM up early the next Sat, I want to get all my work done so I can pick up my coin. So excited instead of riding my bike downtown I ask my mom for a ride to pick it up, something id never do, after all I had a bike and two good legs is what I was always told.
Getting to the shop make my final payment not even looking over the coin that had been housed in the same envelope for almost six long weeks, showing all the payments made and paid in full. Getting into the car open envelope to see my new gem. My heart sank, I felt disappointed, I felf sick to my stomach, and I was extremly puzzled. Why was I holding a 1924 St and not a 1927 like I had orginally purchased? I felt duped, my feelings of my new coin was tainted, the SOB shop owner switched out my coin for a different year, not telling me. IM sure he figured dumb little kid will never know. I also know in my heart the week prior leaving that shop the jerk talked him into switching the coin so he could have it knowing I would never do anything or even notice. I knew it was switched I even know who got the coin but a kid what could I do, word against word, no proof. But I knew, and I never forgot. That was one of many simular experiences over the years at my local B&Ms. But the first one stung the hardest...and is something even to this day stirrs up emotions of so called honest dealers...IM positive there are excellent examples...but this one I remember as if it were yesterday. Not a good way to welcome kids to the world of coin collecting....
0
Comments
reading the first paragraph. some coin dealers are sharks. plain and
simple.
--Severian the Lame
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
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Sad story.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>Did you even try to return it and get your $75 back? >>
I was 11 or 12 never even crossed my mind you could get a refund in those days..
"Because I can"
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Tyler
When I was a kid my ol man went with me, if not - my grand father took me to several shops in Chicago and the burbs- never cheat a kid, just plain bad news..
I hope it taught you never to treat others the same as the owner & "jerk" treated you...
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
In 1976 I was pretty new to the auction route. I had bought some sight seen auction lots via Halperin's company (NERCG) but no one else yet. The B&M sale in Oct 1976 as I recall (River Oaks?) had a choice to near gem unc 1868 quarter listed. It looked incredible in the photo, the description was uber nice too. Bruce Lorich, a B&M employee and seated enthusiast at the time recommended the piece as well. I put in a hefty bid of $1250 for it because I wanted it. It sold for only $850 so I was ecstatic...until I found out I didn't get it and someone on the floor bought it! By the time I got on the horn to B&M the coin was picked up by the buyer and they couldn't/wouldn't make good on it. Dave Bowers signed an apologetic letter stating that out of the entire auction their failure to enter bids or make mistake with bids was a minute fraction of 1/10th percent. In other words I should have been proud to be part of such a tiny mistake rate. Basically, my mail bid was never entered. C'est la vie. Bruce Lorich mentioned that maybe it was all for a purpose since a gem 1866-s 25c was coming up for sale in their next auction. But such a coin was out of my league. It sold for
several thousand. While I didn't get to own the 66-s in 1977, I did finally get to own it in the later 1980's (for 30% of what it sold for in 1980). Too bad the coin developed some distracting carbon spots over the last 20 years following an earlier dipping.
Another B&M sale was coming up in 1977 so feeling like I lost out, I entered bids on about 8 various choice/gem barber and seated coins....based on the catalog descriptions. Imagine my "glee" when I won all of them. But my disgust when I got them was even stronger. Every coin was a problem coin either being cleaned, excessively marked, rubbed, or whatever. No wonder I had won them all! I remember the 1908-0 dime clearly as it was dullish from a cleaning and had a big circular scar across Liberty's face. This was a very choice BU. I called B&M and told them I wanted to return the entire group due to obvious overgrading. Of course this didn't sit well with them at all. Bidders aren't supposed to return lots they said. In any case they finally agreed to take them back, probably in part because of the mess up in the earlier auction. And once again I got another "personal" letter from B&M, this time telling me that if I wanted to bid in further auctions to either view the lots before hand or don't bid. I took that to heart and didn't bid in another B&M auction for 12 years. And I believe I still have both of those original letters buried somewhere in my records. That was my first intro. to west coast auctions.
roadrunner
I would have fingerprinted a lot of his coins after that.
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RIP "BEAR"
I'm about your age but I'm a new collector. (I just fell in love with old coins when I inherited some a couple of years ago.)
One of the things that I find so "interesting" about this hobby is the almost perverse juxtaposition of snobbery and sleaziness. It is unique and disheartening.
I "felt" your post and thank you for sharing the story. I hope it was (at least a little) cathartic. Best Regards, Gayla
The door opened, and the gun dealer stepped outside, presumably to have a smoke. Thinking they were now open, I rushed in excitedly, believing the coin shop to be open, only to find myself grabbed by the collar and gently but abruptly (and somewhat rudely) pulled right back out of the doorway. "We're not open yet," was the explanation.
Sheesh. That guy was a jerkwad. Of course the coin dealer had some real jerkwad moments, too, but he later took me under his wing and taught me a lot.
<< <i>the almost perverse juxtaposition of snobbery and sleaziness >>
....
That is a great phrase. I hope we hear more from this writer in the future.
As for my first visit to a B&M - it was ca. 1970, at the Yorktown mall west of Chicago. I bought an Indian cent and Liberty nickel for 35c each - I could have done a lot worse, I suppose. They went into a type album which was disposed of some time around high school.
Man, there were crappy dealers even in the "good old days", huh. That's the pits.
Still a great story. At least you have that. All that took place around the time I was born.
.....the fact was, the kid will never forget
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
From a business side, I groom all young numismatists for a lifetime of enjoyment collecting coins. They will come back to those dealers at a later date with more disposable income and a greater numismatic apatite. They will also remember, for years to come, those dealers who treated them poorly.
Garrow
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
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<< <i>Even when i was 11 or 12 i would not have told my parents. I was to big at the time for that >>
Im sure I was thinking along those lines at the time,
"Because I can"
myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
<< <i>All young people should be treated with the deepest respect.
From a business side, I groom all young numismatists for a lifetime of enjoyment collecting coins. They will come back to those dealers at a later date with more disposable income and a greater numismatic apatite. They will also remember, for years to come, those dealers who treated them poorly.
Garrow >>
your one of the good guys too it seems. I dealt with a coin shop way back in the day as a 9 year old I would ride the 3 miles to his store on my bike. For several years he tolerated my many questions and gave me more then fair trade in on my coins. I built a decent mercury dime set there and spent a lot of time in his junk boxes as well as being allowed to go through there odds and ends boxes they had behind the counter.
This man was indeed old school one of the good guys he treated me very well and I learned a great deal too. He is long dead I am sure he was old then and that was more then 30 years ago. I still have the 76 Ike I got in change there in 77 a ugly coin worth a buck still today cheap nostalgia.
I wonder if that little bit of nastiness took place today if the jerk customer (and possibly even the jerk dealer) would post on a thread on these boards about how he had ripped a coin from some ignorant kid?
It's somewhat revealing how petty some dealers can be. In my town I had a dealer sell my wife a proof set with carbon spots on a bunch of the coins. It was a Christmas present from her for me. When I attempted to return it, he said no deal. It was a common, dime a dozen set but I wanted a nice one because it was from my wife. Since then I have spent easily in the 6 figures on coins. And I have never spent a dime in his shop PLUS I bad mouth him to anyone who asks. The only time I have ever again entered his shop was to use his scale to weight some of my patterns for an acquaintance who was writing a book. When he saw the patterns, he wanted to talk. When I was done weighing them, I thanked him and left. Jerk.
<< <i>Bcsican:
I wonder if that little bit of nastiness took place today if the jerk customer (and possibly even the jerk dealer) would post on a thread on these boards about how he had ripped a coin from some ignorant kid?
It's somewhat revealing how petty some dealers can be. In my town I had a dealer sell my wife a proof set with carbon spots on a bunch of the coins. It was a Christmas present from her for me. When I attempted to return it, he said no deal. It was a common, dime a dozen set but I wanted a nice one because it was from my wife. Since then I have spent easily in the 6 figures on coins. And I have never spent a dime in his shop PLUS I bad mouth him to anyone who asks. The only time I have ever again entered his shop was to use his scale to weight some of my patterns for an acquaintance who was writing a book. When he saw the patterns, he wanted to talk. When I was done weighing them, I thanked him and left. Jerk.
Great story. Just goes to show how stupid some dealers are. No ethics and no business sense.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
One local shop had what appeared to be a gem 1916-s $10 eagle for $750 which at the time was the most I would have ever spent for a coin by 2X. The coin was exceptionally clean, almost too good for the grade of choice BU. It had a semi PL-ish look to it as well. I bit and took home the first gold coin I ever bought thinking I got a good deal having only paid choice BU money. There was no downside....only upside. Imagine my surprise a few days later reviewing a Paramount International Coin retail magazine with an article on fake $10 Indians. This was back when Dave Akers worked for them. Talk about timely! My coin was a twin to every tool mark on the fake 1916-s $10 that they discussed. I took the coin back to my dealer and promptly received a refund.....and another lesson learned.
roadrunner