When it comes to grading coins

Bear

Are you an idiot an imbecile ,or

a top of the line moron?

RYK

I would say that I am average for a collector and would be eaten alive by the pros.

Walkerguy21D

I feel I'm fully qualified to render a worthless opinion on just about any series except gold coinage - I don't even pretend to have a worthless opinion grading gold! So plunk me down into whatever category this qualifies me for

Bear

I can be pretty good on the specific grades and specific series

I collect. But I am only so so on the rest. There for, I select top

tier graded coins and then do my own micro grading up or down

from that grade. Using this system, I was able to get my entire collection

green beaned. Before I used this system, I was ,as the carpenter

said.........screwed. Being that my opinion is offered on this Forum free of

charge, it is worth every penney one pays for it.

mozin

I restrict myself to grading Bust series coins in grades XF through MS62. Because of this restriction, I believe I am very good at grading the Bust series. Ask me about anything else, and I have little confidence in my grading skills. Thank goodness for TPG, and the green beans.

tahoe98

.......i try to grade subjectively.

Bear

Subjectively .....Down a point when you buy....

Up a point when you sell. I can relate to that.

al410

I am pretty good with Morgans, better at circulated Morgans.
AL

tradedollarnut

I would say that I'm in the top 1% of all collectors and would be eaten alive by most of the pros.

Bear

It appears that there is no substitute for viewing many

thousands of examples of the series you collect. At some point,

after a few seconds, the brain analysis the characteristics of the

coins grade and out pops a grade. What is remarkable to me, is the

fact that world class graders are able to do this for so many series and

grades with such a high degree of accuracy. That has to be the result

of looking at many 10s of thousands and 100s of thousands of coins in a

career. My hat is off in salute to those graders in that exalted class.

tahoe98

<< <i>Subjectively .....Down a point when you buy....

Up a point when you sell. I can relate to that. >>




.........

sparky64

<< <i>I would say that I am average for a collector and would be eaten alive by the pros. >>

Walkerguy21D

<< <i>Subjectively .....Down a point when you buy....

Up a point when you sell. I can relate to that. >>


That sounds like a good plan - but remember, the people you buy and sell with are probably using a similar formula, or worse!

RedTiger

I am an average grader. Probably best at Morgans, have a hard time with Walkers and Buffaloes in terms of strike vs. wear.

BillJones

I can do quite well with early U.S. and just about everything up through 1948. I have trouble giving MS grades to bald headed guys like Franklin and Ike.

Bear

I tend to be very strict on MS-65 Ike Dollars.

I agree with less then half of the graded

65 Ikes. As for the MS-66 Ikes, they have to be

darn near perfect, without a mag glass, for me to bite.

BillJones

Yea when it comes to Ike Dollars, it probably has to be an MS-67 for me to call it an MS-65.

And when it comes to Proof Ikes, spots and toning turn me off. I'm really hard on that stuff.

dragon

<<< What is remarkable to me, is the

fact that world class graders are able to do this for so many series and

grades with such a high degree of accuracy >>>






Ok, how many times would you say that PCGS or NGC have either upgraded or downgraded a coin they've previously graded, or holder a coin they've previously bagged, or bag a coin they've previously graded? In the hundreds of thousands, millions of times?

I've had an NGC saint go up 2 grades at PCGS from a 64 to a 66, I've had PCGS assign the same Morgan dollar 4 different grades/designations over a 2 yr. period, and I could go on and on but you get the idea. The fact remains that even these so called 'pros' are neither consistent nor accurate to a high degree over time. JMO.

Bear

I would say that if 100 recently graded coins

were cracked and sent back to PCGS,80% would

get the same grade, 15% would drop in grade and

5% would get a higher grade. In UNC grades, that would

mean from (1) point lower to (1) point higher. I wonder If

many of us, could come close to that range. Tweeners ,

will always be subject to a tight range of subjective grades.

lcoopie

I am better than I used to be

Bear

<< <i>I am better than I used to be >>



Good heavens, I hope that applies

to all of us poor souls.

dragon

<<< would say that if 100 recently graded coins

were cracked and sent back to PCGS,80% would

get the same grade >>>




Mr Bear, With all due respect, and assuming you're correct, do you consider an 80% consistency factor acceptable? I dunno, but I would consider that pretty awful IMO.

Bear

Mr Dragon, I have as much right to be wrong,

as you have to be right. The problem is not with

the solid coins, It lies with the coins that can grade

either way, lower or higher. If Grading were a scientific

absolute all would be perfect in a perfect world. However,

as long as graing is a science as well as an art, a certain

level of uncertainty exists. I can't be sure that my % numbers

are absolutely correct. They consistent grading may in fact

be 90% , the point is ,a certain % of coins ,will on regrade

as raw , come back higher or lower. This does not take in

to consideration the cyclic tighter and looser of standards,

by fractions of a point as in the case of the unc grades.

Also my comments have not taken into consideration

the new strictness on toned coins ,

which may return a formally graded coin as a genuine.

Ed1840

I think I usually have a close idea, but when you see other people's ideas, you have to rethink your ideas, and then possibly change your original idea. It's alot of work. I do slightly above o.k.

tradedollarnut

<< <i><<< would say that if 100 recently graded coins

were cracked and sent back to PCGS,80% would

get the same grade >>>




Mr Bear, With all due respect, and assuming you're correct, do you consider an 80% consistency factor acceptable? I dunno, but I would consider that pretty awful IMO. >>



That would depend on what the coins were. If they were MS64 Morgans, I'd be shocked at less than 95%. If they were MS61 $5 Indians, I'd be shocked at more than 50%.

leothelyon

There must be something about having the ability to recognize when a coin's qualities or eye appeal actually improves over another resulting into an upgrade. Unless, of course, you're collecting a series that has a few red flags dates that you need to be aware of, I guess only then would skepticism begin to sink in. Even the slightest improvements in the strike or the luster must be noted in order to make the gradual improvement of one's collection.
I've been dealing with that for a number of years, making those improvements (dang, there's that word again) to my collection.
When we come across a coin that may be an upgrade, only then do we study that coin more than others. There are a few dates where I have 2 or 3 but I just can't make up my mind which is the better coin. Perhaps that's the coin collector in me......in his finest moments.


Leo

dragon

<<< This does not take in

to consideration the cyclic tighter and looser of standards, >>>



Dr. Bear, Well now if the standards themselves are changing, how could grading consistency possibly be measured over any meaningful period of time? Not even to mention all the many different graders who have worked at PCGS / NGC over the past 22 yrs. each with their own predisposed personal grading standard.


Ok, let's say you have what you think is a nicely original bag toned MS65 Morgan dollar and you take it to a major national show housed in a Capital holder and show it to 25 different well known experienced dealers who deal in dollars (the 'pros'). You offer each dealer a $20.00 bill just to give you a quick, honest and unbiased opinion on how they would grade it and if they think the toning is good. What's gonna happen???

MisterBungle

Are you an idiot an imbecile ,or a top of the line moron?
-----
I'm more of a maroon.




~

lkenefic

I'm pretty good with circulated IHC's and Lincoln Cents.. I'm getting better with early copper.

I too can render a worthless opinion on just about everything else... I'd probably at least be in the ballpark about half the time.

...and, yes.... I too would be eaten whole by the pros...

RaginsteveK

"...What is remarkable to me, is the fact that world class graders are able to do this for so many series and grades with such a high degree of accuracy. That has to be the result of looking at many 10s of thousands and 100s of thousands of coins in a career. My hat is off in salute to those graders in that exalted class. ..."

hugely