What's the most heavily counterfeited bullion coin?

PerryHall

I'm guessing the British gold sovereign. I've seen quite a few of these.

Weiss

Modern sovereign or classic? I know the classics were counterfeited big time for awhile. But if we're talking classic pieces, weren't American $3 gold pieces and similar mid-1800 pieces counterfeited in Lebanon and the region in the 1970s?

Not quite bullion, but if I understand the story right, they weren't counterfeited in the usual sense. They are good quality gold, just made into a form that people would appreciate and accept. So they were in essence bullion pieces...


Lebanon gold pieces 1970s

The Lebanese Connection
In the early 1970's, a large number of superbly produced counterfeit coins were produced in The Lebanon. These fooled a number of major dealers, collectors, museums, mints and governments for a number of years before they became fully exposed. One day in the 1970's, two dealers offered us an 1887 gold five pound coin in mint condition at a knockdown price. We believe that if something is too good to be true, then it's usually because it's not true. While we were suspiciously examining the coin, the dealers brought out a tube containing 25 or 50 identical coins, and asked how many we wanted. They then fell about laughing. It was clear to us that they had almost certainly never intended to deceive us, and were being quite open about the nature and source of the coins. They also told us about a number of other coin dates and denominations which they knew were available as forgeries. Perhaps misguidedly, these dealers appeared to believe there was no harm in selling these forgeries as long as their customers knew the truth. Unfortunately, as the fakes travelled along the supply lines, they would have come into the hands of smaller dealers and members of the public who would have no such scruples, and it was obvious that unsuspecting collectors and dealers would eventually have been duped and defrauded. A number of dealers who had been importing these fakes were eventually prosecuted, convicted and jailed. We were asked to give evidence against them which we did, although we were and still are able to see and understand their viewpoint as well as that of the authorities. Perhaps they were being slightly naive in expecting the whole supply chain to be as open and honest as they were being with us. We still speak to and deal with a number of these dealers to this day, and they now run perfectly honest and respectable businesses, having paid the price for errors of their past. None of these dealers are members of the British Numismatic Trade Association, as their history precludes them for eligibility.

gecko109

The Chinese silver pandas are a nightmare if you dont know what you are doing. Its really, really, REALLY hard to counterfeit a gold bullion coin without using actual gold. Therefore, the coin would have to have crossed over into the realm of a "numismatic" piece rather than a true "bullion" piece.

CaptHenway

<< <i>I'm guessing the British gold sovereign. I've seen quite a few of these. >>



I would agree. There was a great article on counterfeit sovereigns in The Numismatist in July or August of 2004, that tell how a British Royal Mint official happened to be on vacation in Italy in the mid-1950s, and saw a gold trader with bowls of sovereigns that were selling at different prices. He asked why the prices were different, and the owner of the store said "Because these were made in London, and these were made in Milan, and these were made in Beirut, etc." The Brits complained, and were told that those countries had no laws against making uncurrent coins. That was why the Brits resumed making sovereigns in 1957.

I love the counterfeits made in Saudi Arabia that come counterstamped with the karat fineness, 22, in Arabic numbers so that everybody knows they are getting good gold in their coin!

TD

PerryHall

<< <i>Modern sovereign or classic? I know the classics were counterfeited big time for awhile. But if we're talking classic pieces, weren't American $3 gold pieces and similar mid-1800 pieces counterfeited in Lebanon and the region in the 1970s? >>



I was asking about bullion coins so classic U.S. gold are not within the scope of the question. Gold $3 coins are certainly not bullion. Most counterfeit classic U.S. gold is dated from about 1880 to the end of the classic U.S. gold series with a concentration in the smaller sized coins which carry a higher premium to their melt value. Most high quality counterfeit gold coins are struck from quality transfer dies made from high grade genuine coins which is why most fakes are dated from about 1880 to the end of the series since high grade pre-1880 coins are scarce and generally not available to the counterfeiters.

Cladiator

<< <i>The Chinese silver pandas are a nightmare >>

Why does that not surprise me?

MrOrganic

anyone have a good link or resource to detect B. sovereign fakes?