Nightmare Shipping Scenario...What Am I Missing?

RichR

Ok...here's my stay awake at night nighmare shipping scenario...

I've also never sold an item on eBay worth more than $500. However, in the near future I would like to sell some expensive (modern gold Eagles) on eBay....and my question is this:

Although I plan to use the USPS (registered mail with full insurance and signature upon delivery), how do I protect myself against a person claiming that they received an empty box and demanding a refund via eBay's extremely buyer friendly (biased) rules? In a scenario such as the one outlined, the USPS also wouldn't pay on the insurance since they would say that they delivered the package, case closed, correct?

Am I missing something here? Am I paranoid? Do I have a overly suspicious mind?

I'm really on edge because with my luck I'll find the bad apple in the bunch.

Thoughts?

Greeniejr

Why on Earth would you sell a gold eagle on eBay. Fees will kill you.

Connecticoin

<< <i>Why on Earth would you sell a gold eagle on eBay. Fees will kill you. >>



Yeah, try the BST first lots of gold bugs looking for bullion -- offer them at your expected ebay price less 3% or so -- you will probably get some bites, and come out ahead after ebay fees.

Greeniejr

Or even.... ::::gasp:::: go into a coin store.

RichR

Ok...Ok...points well taken...

But getting back to my shipping question...is this a valid concern...or am I worrying too much?

Can anything be done to close this potential loophole in my belt and suspenders approach?

Connecticoin

<< <i>Ok...Ok...points well taken...

But getting back to my shipping question...is this a valid concern...or am I worrying too much?

Can anything be done to close this potential loophole in my belt and suspenders approach? >>



Just make sure you use Signature Confirmation, even with Registered Mail. Yeah, it's a waste of money, but Paypal requires it.

RichR

<<Just make sure you use Signature Confirmation, even with Registered Mail. Yeah, it's a waste of money, but Paypal requires it. >>

Will do...always use signature confirmation.

But how does that prevent some scum from signing for the package, removing the coins, and then claiming the box was essentially empty?

And the USPS insurance won't make good for it if they deliver it, correct?

PerryHall

Rich---Try the BST forum first. It's free so what have you got to lose? Also, on the Precious Metals forum here, there is a monthly BST thread for PM's and related material.

nankraut

IMHO, the scenario you've outlined is EXTREMELY rare. I've sold over 2000 separate items on ebay, and never had the problem you are worried about. Hey....relax. Life is too short.

ormandh

Turn your PM function on. -Dan

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>But how does that prevent some scum from signing for the package, removing the coins, and then claiming the box was essentially empty? >>

It's not possible to stop someone from trying. The best you could do in that event is insist that they take the package they received to the post office and have it weighed. If the weight doesn't match the weight on your receipt, it's clear something's missing. Whether or not PayPal would accept any of that as evidence is another story. And there's no way to insure that the buyer, upon being requested to have the packaging weighed, wouldn't reply that he had already thrown it away.

<< <i>And the USPS insurance won't make good for it if they deliver it, correct? >>

With registered mail, that's a safe bet.

Bottom line- if you accept payment through PayPal, there is probably no way to guarantee with 100% assurance that you will never get cheated.

pmac

I want to hear replys on what to do if the person claims to have received an empty box. It doesn't seem to matter how he sells it via internet sales, the problem still exists. My only thoughts would be to sell only in person.

RYK

You do not appear to have the stomach for selling online.

lathmach

I live in a small town, and get along good with the PO workers.
If I had concerns and this were me, I'd have the Postmaster witness my placing the coin in the envelope. Maybe even have it scanned on PO stationery.
Then if this sort of claim is made, the scammer will be talking to a Postal inspector.
Airplanenut (Jeremy), had his Postmaster witness his opening a package, in which the coin he had bought was switched to a lower value coin by the seller. I think he had bought a one ounce Platinum coin and received a one ounce Silver coin.
The Postmaster scanned the coin that was in the package, as well as stating that he had witnessed the package being opened and that was what the contents were.
I don't know if he posted what the outcome was.

Ray

Smittys

<< <i>You do not appear to have the stomach for selling online. >>



Sold for years without a problem (knock on wood)

cars

I've sold many multi-thousand dollar items on eBay with paypal payment and shipped them. This has always been in back of my mind also but I've never had a problem. You just have to trust mankind. I think the reasoning behind Signature conf. is a buyer wouldn't sign for a package if it felt empty or looked suspect.

gecko109

I have sold at least 25 items on ebay with values in excess of $1,000 each (some as high as $2,000). I too have been worried about a scamster taking advantage of Paypal's idiotic policies. I have had just a single "chargeback" in over 400 sells on Ebay, and it was a measly $135 coin. The chargeback came almost 3 months after the sale AND after positive feedback had been left for me! I called Paypal and they requested the Delivery Conf number of the package I sent. Thankfully I still had it. 10 minutes later, my Paypal account was reinstated with the $135 they had automatically deducted. My only advice for you is to make sure any high dollar items are shipped FULLY insured and with Signature confirmation. If you do happen across a scamster who says they got an empty package, at least you have recourse with the USPS in recovering your money (just might take awhile, and some work).

Having said all that, I'd listen to Greenie Jr on this particular situation though. A common, modern gold eagle will probably sell for right at, or just below melt once Ebay/Paypal fees are factored in. Any honest coin shop worth its salt will pay you melt on a walk-in. Any semi-honest shop will pay you 97%. Either way, its good funds in hand without the worry of a "chargeback" slapping you in the face down the road. Ebay has its place as far as selling, but its not the place to sell common bullion IMO.

19Lyds

<< <i>Am I missing something here? Am I paranoid? Do I have a overly suspicious mind? >>



No, Yes, Yes

Don't even bother with the BST since you'll have to mail it anyway and then worry about whether or not you're gonna get ripped off by some scum lurker or nefarious individual.

If you are this worried, sell it somewhere else where you can hand the coin to the individual who in turns hands you CASH. Either a coin dealer or a coin show.
Don't accept a dealers check either since it could bounce!
Don't accept a money order either since it could be fake.
Don't trade it for something since what you receive just might be counterfeit!

Cash and CASH only.

BTW, you might want to pick up one of those "counterfeit" detecting pens since there's a lot of counterfeit currency floating around out there.

And while you're at it, "buckle up" cause you just never know when you'll need that extra protection.

Now get some sleep!

TomB

If this very small probability truly worries you, and if you have a good relationship with your postal clerk and trust the person, you can have them witness you placing the coin into the package and then sign a declaration that the coin was included. You would keep the declaration and would not have to tell anyone that you went to such a length. Alternatively, you could film yourself packaging the coin at the post office and handing it over to the clerk.

coindeuce

<< <i>I want to hear replys on what to do if the person claims to have received an empty box. It doesn't seem to matter how he sells it via internet sales, the problem still exists. My only thoughts would be to sell only in person. >>



The actual weight of the package as recorded by the U.S.P.S. is published on your tape receipt for the transaction. The Postal inspectors are experienced enough to know what the expected weight of a similar package would be if it became necessary to reconstruct one. For an addressee to claim empty package would be a big mistake. If the addressee opens a package out of the presence of a Postal clerk and then claims it empty, they have no way to claim theft by means of tampering either.

lkeigwin

You worry a lot. Here's some more to keep you up:

- Suppose you get robbed on the way to the PO
- What if the buyer returns it and the coin is different
- Imagine if the auction ended you couldn't find the coin
- PayPal could go belly-up before you withdraw your money

It could happen, I'm telling you.
Lance.

PerryHall

<< <i>You worry a lot. Here's some more to keep you up:

- What if the buyer returns it and the coin is different

It could happen, I'm telling you.
Lance. >>



How's this a problem? You keep the coin and his money.

RichR

Thanks for all the suggestions...

I've never had a problem with moderate sized ($500+/-) sales...but making a larger one was always worrysome to me.

doh

It's usually a good idea not to go into a situation expecting the worst. It's good to prepare for it and all, but if you're really that worried about getting screwed, don't use eBay.

BECOKA

<< <i>Thanks for all the suggestions...

I've never had a problem with moderate sized ($500+/-) sales...but making a larger one was always worrysome to me. >>



Like everything in life, the more you do it the less you worry.

Amigo

I haven't had any problems sending coins YET. Did have a problem with a new cell phone last year. Purchased an upgrade thru Verizon 1 800 number. They only send to street addresses, in which case I used a UPS store near the house. The tracking number indicaated it arrived, I went down to pick it up. The clerk said he never heard of me so he returned it back on the next truck a couple hrs later. It never showed up at Verizon. What the clerk had done, was re-address it to a friend on the other side of the Country, he removed the phone and then re-addressed it to me. The package arrived Empty. I was smart enough to open the package in front of the Mgr before leaving.
Verizon refused to cover it because it had been signed for by the shop on first delivery. I put up a big stink at Fedex because the Shop Mgr and I figured it was a dishonest Driver ...... It took about a Mth and a lot of stress, finally the UPS store reimbursed me.

I think it would be near impossible to recover thru Paypal chargeback and USPS insurance if the crook stuck rocks the same weight and claimed that was what was in the Box once he opened at Home.
The USPS is not in the business of verifying what's in every package ...... nor the time to sit there and watch you package and wrap with Brown Cloth tape ........ not gonna happen. Not to mention everyone in the Post Office witnessing you sending valuable coins and wondering what else you may have at home.

I for one can think of no way to prevent this in real life when mailing packages. I guess the only thing one can do is limit how much in Value is mailed to any one person in a certain time period. A lengthly time period since some scum bags don't do a Chargeback til some time later.

Any other ideas ?

yellowkid

<< <i>

<< <i>You do not appear to have the stomach for selling online. >>



Sold for years without a problem (knock on wood) >>

Res

<< <i>

<< <i>You worry a lot. Here's some more to keep you up:

- What if the buyer returns it and the coin is different

It could happen, I'm telling you.
Lance. >>



How's this a problem? You keep the coin and his money. >>



I'm not one for worrying, but to be fair, this isn't really a problem for the buyer, especially if he paid with a credit card.