<< <i>Well seaeaglecoins, here's how one local dealer I go to has always put it to me:
If you (over the counter customer) cherrypick me (dealer) because I "missed" something, more power to you. I'm a pro and it's my stock, so be it if I missed it and priced it wrong.
If I (dealer) buy from you (over the counter customer) and rip you mercilessly -- there's a special hot place for me (dealer) because you (customer) are sort of relying on me for professional, specialized knowledge.
If another dealer sells or buys to me (a dealer) and one of us "scores" on the other -- buying or selling side -- then so be it, as it's a level playing field -- we're both in this to make a living, and it's "dealer beware." >>
Not sure anyone cares but after a long, long, long read I find that I agree with OIBs synopsis above. As to the finer details of what is right and wrong in these buy/sell scenarios, that is up to the individual with OIB and me falling on one side of the spectrum and Keets, seaeagle and that dealer with the blue sports car avitar on the other side.
Cheers
Edited to add the guy who looks a lot like Ben Franklin with the keets et all group.
No... originalisbest... does not really answer the question I have been asking... not really...
For the record... I am not saying that it is OK to "rip" another... I just wonder at the "judgements" that many feel obligated to mete out on others... how they seem to be so above reproach as to be able to feel justified in judging another...
Enough of this... I'll just add a quote I keep on my desk at work...
"The judgements of others do not really matter... and when people understand the substance of what truly matters they do not judge... "
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
Just a side note, I have only lived in 2 states and sure do not understand how pawn or coin shops get away with buying without getting ID, both states I have lived in require it and even if they don't require it I would want to know who I am buying from incase it ends up being stolen. I mean what if was a stolen collection? I know this does not appply to this thread but in a way it does. AL
<< <i>No... originalisbest... does not really answer the question I have been asking... not really...
For the record... I am not saying that it is OK to "rip" another... I just wonder at the "judgements" that many feel obligated to mete out on others... how they seem to be so above reproach as to be able to feel justified in judging another...
Enough of this... I'll just add a quote I keep on my desk at work...
"The judgements of others do not really matter... and when people understand the substance of what truly matters they do not judge... " >>
I may not be "so above reproach", but I do know right from wrong! And yes, I do feel justified in judging another in some cases: I think Hitler was wrong I think Jeffrey dahlmer was wrong I think a dealer ripping an old man is wrong...
Are you telling me that you don't have the decency to "judge" any of the above? Start being honest with yourself... You do not have to be "so above reproach" or "self righteous" to know right from wrong. It's just common (maybe not so common) decency and morals.
<< <i>No... originalisbest... does not really answer the question I have been asking... not really...
For the record... I am not saying that it is OK to "rip" another... I just wonder at the "judgements" that many feel obligated to mete out on others... how they seem to be so above reproach as to be able to feel justified in judging another...
Enough of this... I'll just add a quote I keep on my desk at work...
"The judgements of others do not really matter... and when people understand the substance of what truly matters they do not judge... " >>
I may not be "so above reproach", but I do know right from wrong! And yes, I do feel justified in judging another in some cases: I think Hitler was wrong I think Jeffrey dahlmer was wrong I think a dealer ripping an old man is wrong...
Are you telling me that you don't have the decency to "judge" any of the above? Start being honest with yourself... You do not have to be "so above reproach" or "self righteous" to know right from wrong. It's just common (maybe not so common) decency and morals. >>
If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself.
<< <i>If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself. >>
If you really think that is right you have a problem. Yes if he'd had done some research he'd have know, but he came to the expert to get he opinion. But what he got was a line of S@@t. JMO but it doesn't take that long to go through coins. Especially barbers in "junk" silver bet he checked every kennedy to see if it was 90% or 40%
<< <i>If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself. >>
If you really think that is right you have a problem. Yes if he'd had done some research he'd have know, but he came to the expert to get he opinion. But what he got was a line of S@@t. JMO but it doesn't take that long to go through coins. Especially barbers in "junk" silver bet he checked every kennedy to see if it was 90% or 40% >>
This line of logic "If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself. " would seem to imply that coin doctors aren't bad guys either, it's up to the collector to educate himself about doctored coins. While I do believe in educating yourself, I do NOT believe that it makes the coin doctor faultless. The counterfeiters in China are also faultless, right? Morals and honesty seem to be fading, must be something in the kool aide...
<< <i>If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself. >>
If you really think that is right you have a problem. Yes if he'd had done some research he'd have know, but he came to the expert to get he opinion. But what he got was a line of S@@t. JMO but it doesn't take that long to go through coins. Especially barbers in "junk" silver bet he checked every kennedy to see if it was 90% or 40% >>
This line of logic "If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself. " would seem to imply that coin doctors aren't bad guys either, it's up to the collector to educate himself about doctored coins. While I do believe in educating yourself, I do NOT believe that it makes the coin doctor faultless. The counterfeiters in China are also faultless, right? Morals and honesty seem to be fading, must be something in the kool aide... >>
Reading things into my quote that I did not say or infer is the reasoning of someone that has no real response.
If you are not blaming the old man for not knowing what he had, what are you trying to say???
My response meant that it is not decent, or morally correct, to take advantage of someone just because they were unaware of what they had. Your response implied that it is okay to cheat someone, as long as they are unaware...
Having muddled through most of the postings on the various threads I can say without any regret that I am so pleased to not know many of you. I've always liked keets even though we don't see eye to eye on every thing. Those who have arrived at a different opinion reread my first sentence.
<< <i>If you are not blaming the old man for not knowing what he had, what are you trying to say???
My response meant that it is not decent, or morally correct, to take advantage of someone just because they were unaware of what they had. Your response implied that it is okay to cheat someone, as long as they are unaware... >>
Nobody took advantage of the old man. Nobody cheated the old man. What part of that don't you understand??
<< <i>Having muddled through most of the postings on the various threads I can say without any regret that I am so pleased to not know many of you. I've always liked keets even though we don't see eye to eye on every thing. Those who have arrived at a different opinion reread my first sentence. >>
<< <i>If you are not blaming the old man for not knowing what he had, what are you trying to say???
My response meant that it is not decent, or morally correct, to take advantage of someone just because they were unaware of what they had. Your response implied that it is okay to cheat someone, as long as they are unaware... >>
Nobody took advantage of the old man. Nobody cheated the old man. What part of that don't you understand?? >>
I guess I don't understand paying $2 for a very valuable coin. I guess I don't understand how many 5 gallon buckets of coins you can get into "a few change purses" I guess I don't understand a dealer who is unaware of rare dates I guess I don't understand how people have posted, in the past, about unethical dealers, but find it "okay" if the same thing happens, but a "prominent" forum member is involved I guess I don't understand how someone with a clear conscience would keep this whole affair alive I guess I don't understand why you didn't answer my questin about what your quote was actually implying I guess I don't understand human nature....
<< <i>If you are not blaming the old man for not knowing what he had, what are you trying to say???
My response meant that it is not decent, or morally correct, to take advantage of someone just because they were unaware of what they had. Your response implied that it is okay to cheat someone, as long as they are unaware... >>
Nobody took advantage of the old man. Nobody cheated the old man. What part of that don't you understand?? >>
I guess I don't understand paying $2 for a very valuable coin. I guess I don't understand how many 5 gallon buckets of coins you can get into "a few change purses" I guess I don't understand a dealer who is unaware of rare dates I guess I don't understand how people have posted, in the past, about unethical dealers, but find it "okay" if the same thing happens, but a "prominent" forum member is involved I guess I don't understand how someone with a clear conscience would keep this whole affair alive I guess I don't understand why you didn't answer my questin about what your quote was actually implying I guess I don't understand human nature.... >>
You certainly have a hard time understanding that most people disagree with you. Oh, and I don't understand what a questin is.
<< <i>If you are not blaming the old man for not knowing what he had, what are you trying to say???
My response meant that it is not decent, or morally correct, to take advantage of someone just because they were unaware of what they had. Your response implied that it is okay to cheat someone, as long as they are unaware... >>
Nobody took advantage of the old man. Nobody cheated the old man. What part of that don't you understand?? >>
I guess I don't understand paying $2 for a very valuable coin. I guess I don't understand how many 5 gallon buckets of coins you can get into "a few change purses" I guess I don't understand a dealer who is unaware of rare dates I guess I don't understand how people have posted, in the past, about unethical dealers, but find it "okay" if the same thing happens, but a "prominent" forum member is involved I guess I don't understand how someone with a clear conscience would keep this whole affair alive I guess I don't understand why you didn't answer my questin about what your quote was actually implying I guess I don't understand human nature.... >>
You certainly have a hard time understanding that most people disagree with you. Oh, and I don't understand what a questin is. >>
You win, my simple spelling error has caused my demise
Hey Keets, I do have one question for you, and apologize if you've already answered it elsewhere: IF this man should ever return to the shop again, what would happen in regards to the 01s purchase?
wow, you guys have been busy while i've been at work all day. this thread has somehow managed to contain some of the same misunderstandings, missrepresentations and false accusations as the other two, so i'd say i've learned my lesson. i'll certainly not bring anything similar up that happens in the future, that's for sure.
also, one persistent rumor keeps floating around that i'd like to dispel.....................i'm not a dealer, i just work for a dealer in his shop.
Hey I've got a scenario which hasn't been brought up:
A middle aged woman goes into a relatively busy coin shop with her late husbands modest coin collection which consists mainly of proof sets from 1968 to date. There are about 50 or so sets with quantities varying from 5 to 6 sets per year. These are common clad sets so no contact information is left or even asked for.
10% back of grey sheet bid is offered for each set including a sizeable premium for that 2001-S!
Searching later on the sets reveals a 1968-S No Set set and at least 1 1968 Inverted S Kennedy along with several DCAM 1971-S Kennedy's.
What to do?
IMO, this would be a significantly more expensive loss for the lady, which could have been caught but then, who inspects every proof set that crosses the counter other than to insure that all the coins are in each set? Especially if any quantity is brought in?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Would the 50 sets fit into a few "change purses"? That way, the dealer could miss the better sets, not to mention no S ect. Actually, there is a BIG difference in the Proof Set scenario, and a few small change purses of old coins... Anyway, as you posted earlier, we're beating a dead horse. Some people think it's fine, some people don't.
<< <i>Would the 50 sets fit into a few "change purses"? That way, the dealer could miss the better sets, not to mention no S ect. Actually, there is a BIG difference in the Proof Set scenario, and a few small change purses of old coins... Anyway, as you posted earlier, we're beating a dead horse. Some people think it's fine, some people don't. >>
Duh! I meant to change that to a couple of hundred sets.
But, you really need to define "change purse" since these do come in varying sizes and coupled with a bunch of jewelry.............
...................... it may not be as obvious as some folks envision in their minds.
Perhaps if Al could provide us with a relative count on the number of coins actually turned in, it might get a little clearer as to what quantity was involved.
Oh, BTW, does every 1968 Proof set you look at get checked for the Inverted or No S coins? Or do you not look at these sets for whatever reasons?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I agree that it would be easy to just buy Proof sets, and a mistake could happen. I do think that any obsolete coins would be given the "once over" at most shops. As to the "few change purses", the question has come up a number of times in these threads, and it seems that a lot of people just wanted to envision it as "a few 5 gallon buckets". I really tried to just let it go, though I personnally felt that an old man was taken advantage of, but when the OP started calling people "self righteous" just because they felt it was unjust, I just couldn't help but open my big mouth...
<< <i>I agree that it would be easy to just buy Proof sets, and a mistake could happen. I do think that any obsolete coins would be given the "once over" at most shops. As to the "few change purses", the question has come up a number of times in these threads, and it seems that a lot of people just wanted to envision it as "a few 5 gallon buckets". I really tried to just let it go, though I personnally felt that an old man was taken advantage of, but when the OP started calling people "self righteous" just because they felt it was unjust, I just couldn't help but open my big mouth... >>
I fully agree that this was no where near the "5 Gallon bucket" scenario but my life's experience views it as "an old man missed an opportunity". Granted, few folks even know what questions to ask or where to go much less ask the right questions or go to the right place, which could have resolved all this before it ever started. A simple, "See anything important in there?" while picking up each coin may have brought the 01-S to light. Had it been a single coin or even 3 coins, hten it might have brought the 01-S to light.
But, that just didn't happen way and I don't preceive it as anybodies fault. Its just one of those things that happen to happen.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>I agree that it would be easy to just buy Proof sets, and a mistake could happen. I do think that any obsolete coins would be given the "once over" at most shops. As to the "few change purses", the question has come up a number of times in these threads, and it seems that a lot of people just wanted to envision it as "a few 5 gallon buckets". I really tried to just let it go, though I personnally felt that an old man was taken advantage of, but when the OP started calling people "self righteous" just because they felt it was unjust, I just couldn't help but open my big mouth... >>
I fully agree that this was no where near the "5 Gallon bucket" scenario but my life's experience views it as "an old man missed an opportunity". Granted, few folks even know what questions to ask or where to go much less ask the right questions or go to the right place, which could have resolved all this before it ever started. A simple, "See anything important in there?" while picking up each coin may have brought the 01-S to light. Had it been a single coin or even 3 coins, hten it might have brought the 01-S to light.
But, that just didn't happen way and I don't preceive it as anybodies fault. Its just one of those things that happen to happen. >>
<< <i>Its just one of those things that happen to happen >>
Stuff happens, people make mistakes because they're human, and we have posters here that think the whole damn world must revolve around what they "think."
the thread(s) that keep on giving.....this may make 100 yet.............MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I like Al, I really do. However, I also agree completely with the post quoted below:
<< <i>Well seaeaglecoins, here's how one local dealer I go to has always put it to me:
If you (over the counter customer) cherrypick me (dealer) because I "missed" something, more power to you. I'm a pro and it's my stock, so be it if I missed it and priced it wrong.
If I (dealer) buy from you (over the counter customer) and rip you mercilessly -- there's a special hot place for me (dealer) because you (customer) are sort of relying on me for professional, specialized knowledge.
If another dealer sells or buys to me (a dealer) and one of us "scores" on the other -- buying or selling side -- then so be it, as it's a level playing field -- we're both in this to make a living, and it's "dealer beware." >>
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
Thanks Mike! That was just how that dealer put it to me -- he's a straight shooter, and I like him -- it made sense to me when he said it, and it still does.
<< <i>Hey I've got a scenario which hasn't been brought up:
A middle aged woman goes into a relatively busy coin shop with her late husbands modest coin collection which consists mainly of proof sets from 1968 to date. There are about 50 or so sets with quantities varying from 5 to 6 sets per year. These are common clad sets so no contact information is left or even asked for.
10% back of grey sheet bid is offered for each set including a sizeable premium for that 2001-S!
Searching later on the sets reveals a 1968-S No Set set and at least 1 1968 Inverted S Kennedy along with several DCAM 1971-S Kennedy's.
What to do?
IMO, this would be a significantly more expensive loss for the lady, which could have been caught but then, who inspects every proof set that crosses the counter other than to insure that all the coins are in each set? Especially if any quantity is brought in? >>
My response: How the hell does the nature of the material being presented have any bearing on wether or not verifiable ID is obtained from a seller? In the coin shop where I am employed, EVERY seller is required to provide verifiable ID. No exceptions. What is so difficult about making that S.O.P.? The policy provides a basic, legitimate way of claiming that good title has been passed in the event of a L.E. investigation, and it certainly eliminates the excuse of a buyer that "there is no way to reconnect with the seller". Well Al, how about it?
<< <i>Hey I've got a scenario which hasn't been brought up:
A middle aged woman goes into a relatively busy coin shop with her late husbands modest coin collection which consists mainly of proof sets from 1968 to date. There are about 50 or so sets with quantities varying from 5 to 6 sets per year. These are common clad sets so no contact information is left or even asked for.
10% back of grey sheet bid is offered for each set including a sizeable premium for that 2001-S!
Searching later on the sets reveals a 1968-S No Set set and at least 1 1968 Inverted S Kennedy along with several DCAM 1971-S Kennedy's.
What to do?
IMO, this would be a significantly more expensive loss for the lady, which could have been caught but then, who inspects every proof set that crosses the counter other than to insure that all the coins are in each set? Especially if any quantity is brought in? >>
My response: How the hell does the nature of the material being presented have any bearing on wether or not verifiable ID is obtained from a seller? In the coin shop where I am employed, EVERY seller is required to provide verifiable ID. No exceptions. What is so difficult about making that S.O.P.? The policy provides a basic, legitimate way of claiming that good title has been passed in the event of a L.E. investigation, and it certainly eliminates the excuse of a buyer that "there is no way to reconnect with the seller". Well Al, how about it? >>
I wouldn't hold my breath ..... he's made his choice. Ala 'tis better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt' not thinking there might be an adverse reaction to bragging about this big rip, well, I think all should be happy he posted so they can make their own judgement.
buying Rhode Island Nationals please email, PM or call 401-295-3000
<< <i>Hey I've got a scenario which hasn't been brought up:
A middle aged woman goes into a relatively busy coin shop with her late husbands modest coin collection which consists mainly of proof sets from 1968 to date. There are about 50 or so sets with quantities varying from 5 to 6 sets per year. These are common clad sets so no contact information is left or even asked for.
10% back of grey sheet bid is offered for each set including a sizeable premium for that 2001-S!
Searching later on the sets reveals a 1968-S No Set set and at least 1 1968 Inverted S Kennedy along with several DCAM 1971-S Kennedy's.
What to do?
IMO, this would be a significantly more expensive loss for the lady, which could have been caught but then, who inspects every proof set that crosses the counter other than to insure that all the coins are in each set? Especially if any quantity is brought in? >>
My response: How the hell does the nature of the material being presented have any bearing on wether or not verifiable ID is obtained from a seller? In the coin shop where I am employed, EVERY seller is required to provide verifiable ID. No exceptions. What is so difficult about making that S.O.P.? The policy provides a basic, legitimate way of claiming that good title has been passed in the event of a L.E. investigation, and it certainly eliminates the excuse of a buyer that "there is no way to reconnect with the seller". Well Al, how about it? >>
I wouldn't hold my breath ..... he's made his choice. Ala 'tis better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt' not thinking there might be an adverse reaction to bragging about this big rip, well, I think all should be happy he posted so they can make their own judgement. >>
What a totally ignorant statement. He works in a coin shop. He doesn't run it or make or change the rules. Some of you people need to truly read what you type before hitting the reply button.
someone cautioned me via PM to just shut-up and not say another word about this incident, the best advice yet. what has happened from the beginning just continues, character assassination, inuendo and supposition by members who think they know all about me. please keep the thread going because you're teaching me more about yourselves than you realize.
strangely, i feel that through no effort on my part to do so, i have irreparably damaged my credibility here, a very strange thing indeed. members i have trusted have seen fit to hammer away while some forum names i don't even recognize have joined the fight. worst of all, there are some that i thought i had a good relationship with through BST transactions and general interaction in threads who have cast doubt on that due to their very judgemental attitudes.
i can't say this LOUD enough------all over one incident that's been picked apart. and to think, i have noone to blame but myself for bringing it up in the first place.
What a totally ignorant statement. He works in a coin shop. He doesn't run it or make or change the rules. Some of you people need to truly read what you type before hitting the reply button. >>
Hi there knucklehead - point me to where he posted that he had any queasy feelings for how this customer was 'treated' and I will gladly apologize to him. Otherwise just go back to what you seem to do best - wasting PCGS bandwidth space with your consistantly huge empty air posts
buying Rhode Island Nationals please email, PM or call 401-295-3000
<< <i>Hey I've got a scenario which hasn't been brought up:
A middle aged woman goes into a relatively busy coin shop with her late husbands modest coin collection which consists mainly of proof sets from 1968 to date. There are about 50 or so sets with quantities varying from 5 to 6 sets per year. These are common clad sets so no contact information is left or even asked for.
10% back of grey sheet bid is offered for each set including a sizeable premium for that 2001-S!
Searching later on the sets reveals a 1968-S No Set set and at least 1 1968 Inverted S Kennedy along with several DCAM 1971-S Kennedy's.
What to do?
IMO, this would be a significantly more expensive loss for the lady, which could have been caught but then, who inspects every proof set that crosses the counter other than to insure that all the coins are in each set? Especially if any quantity is brought in? >>
My response: How the hell does the nature of the material being presented have any bearing on wether or not verifiable ID is obtained from a seller? In the coin shop where I am employed, EVERY seller is required to provide verifiable ID. No exceptions. What is so difficult about making that S.O.P.? The policy provides a basic, legitimate way of claiming that good title has been passed in the event of a L.E. investigation, and it certainly eliminates the excuse of a buyer that "there is no way to reconnect with the seller". Well Al, how about it? >>
My Counter-Response: Simply because Al's shop does not require it as there obviously is no LAW governing it.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Comments
<< <i>Well seaeaglecoins, here's how one local dealer I go to has always put it to me:
If you (over the counter customer) cherrypick me (dealer) because I "missed" something, more power to you. I'm a pro and it's my stock, so be it if I missed it and priced it wrong.
If I (dealer) buy from you (over the counter customer) and rip you mercilessly -- there's a special hot place for me (dealer) because you (customer) are sort of relying on me for professional, specialized knowledge.
If another dealer sells or buys to me (a dealer) and one of us "scores" on the other -- buying or selling side -- then so be it, as it's a level playing field -- we're both in this to make a living, and it's "dealer beware." >>
Not sure anyone cares but after a long, long, long read I find that I agree with OIBs synopsis above. As to the finer details of what is right and wrong in these buy/sell scenarios, that is up to the individual with OIB and me falling on one side of the spectrum and Keets, seaeagle and that dealer with the blue sports car avitar on the other side.
Cheers
Edited to add the guy who looks a lot like Ben Franklin with the keets et all group.
For the record... I am not saying that it is OK to "rip" another... I just wonder at the "judgements" that many feel obligated to mete out on others... how they seem to be so above reproach as to be able to feel justified in judging another...
Enough of this... I'll just add a quote I keep on my desk at work...
"The judgements of others do not really matter...
and when people understand
the substance of what truly matters
they do not judge...
RYK, if I were Freudian I might suggest Keets is self flaggelating to address latent guilt brough on by his 12K score.
Cheers
AL
<< <i>No... originalisbest... does not really answer the question I have been asking... not really...
For the record... I am not saying that it is OK to "rip" another... I just wonder at the "judgements" that many feel obligated to mete out on others... how they seem to be so above reproach as to be able to feel justified in judging another...
Enough of this... I'll just add a quote I keep on my desk at work...
"The judgements of others do not really matter...
and when people understand
the substance of what truly matters
they do not judge...
I may not be "so above reproach", but I do know right from wrong! And yes, I do feel justified in judging another in some cases:
I think Hitler was wrong
I think Jeffrey dahlmer was wrong
I think a dealer ripping an old man is wrong...
Are you telling me that you don't have the decency to "judge" any of the above? Start being honest with yourself...
You do not have to be "so above reproach" or "self righteous" to know right from wrong. It's just common (maybe not so common) decency and morals.
Heh.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>
<< <i>No... originalisbest... does not really answer the question I have been asking... not really...
For the record... I am not saying that it is OK to "rip" another... I just wonder at the "judgements" that many feel obligated to mete out on others... how they seem to be so above reproach as to be able to feel justified in judging another...
Enough of this... I'll just add a quote I keep on my desk at work...
"The judgements of others do not really matter...
and when people understand
the substance of what truly matters
they do not judge...
I may not be "so above reproach", but I do know right from wrong! And yes, I do feel justified in judging another in some cases:
I think Hitler was wrong
I think Jeffrey dahlmer was wrong
I think a dealer ripping an old man is wrong...
Are you telling me that you don't have the decency to "judge" any of the above? Start being honest with yourself...
You do not have to be "so above reproach" or "self righteous" to know right from wrong. It's just common (maybe not so common) decency and morals. >>
If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself.
<< <i>If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself. >>
If you really think that is right you have a problem.
Yes if he'd had done some research he'd have know, but he came to the expert to get he opinion.
But what he got was a line of S@@t.
JMO but it doesn't take that long to go through coins.
Especially barbers in "junk" silver
bet he checked every kennedy to see if it was 90% or 40%
<< <i>
<< <i>If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself. >>
If you really think that is right you have a problem.
Yes if he'd had done some research he'd have know, but he came to the expert to get he opinion.
But what he got was a line of S@@t.
JMO but it doesn't take that long to go through coins.
Especially barbers in "junk" silver
bet he checked every kennedy to see if it was 90% or 40% >>
This line of logic "If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself. " would seem to imply that coin doctors aren't bad guys either, it's up to the collector to educate himself about doctored coins. While I do believe in educating yourself, I do NOT believe that it makes the coin doctor faultless. The counterfeiters in China are also faultless, right? Morals and honesty seem to be fading, must be something in the kool aide...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself. >>
If you really think that is right you have a problem.
Yes if he'd had done some research he'd have know, but he came to the expert to get he opinion.
But what he got was a line of S@@t.
JMO but it doesn't take that long to go through coins.
Especially barbers in "junk" silver
bet he checked every kennedy to see if it was 90% or 40% >>
This line of logic "If anybody ripped the old man, it was the old man himself. " would seem to imply that coin doctors aren't bad guys either, it's up to the collector to educate himself about doctored coins. While I do believe in educating yourself, I do NOT believe that it makes the coin doctor faultless. The counterfeiters in China are also faultless, right? Morals and honesty seem to be fading, must be something in the kool aide... >>
Reading things into my quote that I did not say or infer is the reasoning of someone that has no real response.
My response meant that it is not decent, or morally correct, to take advantage of someone just because they were unaware of what they had. Your response implied that it is okay to cheat someone, as long as they are unaware...
<< <i>If you are not blaming the old man for not knowing what he had, what are you trying to say???
My response meant that it is not decent, or morally correct, to take advantage of someone just because they were unaware of what they had. Your response implied that it is okay to cheat someone, as long as they are unaware... >>
Nobody took advantage of the old man. Nobody cheated the old man. What part of that don't you understand??
<< <i>Having muddled through most of the postings on the various threads I can say without any regret that I am so pleased to not know many of you. I've always liked keets even though we don't see eye to eye on every thing. Those who have arrived at a different opinion reread my first sentence. >>
Hi Mike!!
<< <i>Nobody took advantage of the old man. Nobody cheated the old man. What part of that don't you understand?? >>
-- I respectfully, strongly, disagree with this.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you are not blaming the old man for not knowing what he had, what are you trying to say???
My response meant that it is not decent, or morally correct, to take advantage of someone just because they were unaware of what they had. Your response implied that it is okay to cheat someone, as long as they are unaware... >>
Nobody took advantage of the old man. Nobody cheated the old man. What part of that don't you understand?? >>
I guess I don't understand paying $2 for a very valuable coin.
I guess I don't understand how many 5 gallon buckets of coins you can get into "a few change purses"
I guess I don't understand a dealer who is unaware of rare dates
I guess I don't understand how people have posted, in the past, about unethical dealers, but find it "okay" if the
same thing happens, but a "prominent" forum member is involved
I guess I don't understand how someone with a clear conscience would keep this whole affair alive
I guess I don't understand why you didn't answer my questin about what your quote was actually implying
I guess I don't understand human nature....
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If you are not blaming the old man for not knowing what he had, what are you trying to say???
My response meant that it is not decent, or morally correct, to take advantage of someone just because they were unaware of what they had. Your response implied that it is okay to cheat someone, as long as they are unaware... >>
Nobody took advantage of the old man. Nobody cheated the old man. What part of that don't you understand?? >>
I guess I don't understand paying $2 for a very valuable coin.
I guess I don't understand how many 5 gallon buckets of coins you can get into "a few change purses"
I guess I don't understand a dealer who is unaware of rare dates
I guess I don't understand how people have posted, in the past, about unethical dealers, but find it "okay" if the
same thing happens, but a "prominent" forum member is involved
I guess I don't understand how someone with a clear conscience would keep this whole affair alive
I guess I don't understand why you didn't answer my questin about what your quote was actually implying
I guess I don't understand human nature.... >>
You certainly have a hard time understanding that most people disagree with you. Oh, and I don't understand what a questin is.
<< <i>You certainly have a hard time understanding that most people disagree with you >>
Some disagree, some agree with him.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If you are not blaming the old man for not knowing what he had, what are you trying to say???
My response meant that it is not decent, or morally correct, to take advantage of someone just because they were unaware of what they had. Your response implied that it is okay to cheat someone, as long as they are unaware... >>
Nobody took advantage of the old man. Nobody cheated the old man. What part of that don't you understand?? >>
I guess I don't understand paying $2 for a very valuable coin.
I guess I don't understand how many 5 gallon buckets of coins you can get into "a few change purses"
I guess I don't understand a dealer who is unaware of rare dates
I guess I don't understand how people have posted, in the past, about unethical dealers, but find it "okay" if the
same thing happens, but a "prominent" forum member is involved
I guess I don't understand how someone with a clear conscience would keep this whole affair alive
I guess I don't understand why you didn't answer my questin about what your quote was actually implying
I guess I don't understand human nature.... >>
You certainly have a hard time understanding that most people disagree with you. Oh, and I don't understand what a questin is. >>
You win, my simple spelling error has caused my demise
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>Not sure what that means Ken, but kudos to you for doing your part to keep the thread at the top. >>
Always keep your target in sight.
also, one persistent rumor keeps floating around that i'd like to dispel.....................i'm not a dealer, i just work for a dealer in his shop.
A middle aged woman goes into a relatively busy coin shop with her late husbands modest coin collection which consists mainly of proof sets from 1968 to date. There are about 50 or so sets with quantities varying from 5 to 6 sets per year. These are common clad sets so no contact information is left or even asked for.
10% back of grey sheet bid is offered for each set including a sizeable premium for that 2001-S!
Searching later on the sets reveals a 1968-S No Set set and at least 1 1968 Inverted S Kennedy along with several DCAM 1971-S Kennedy's.
What to do?
IMO, this would be a significantly more expensive loss for the lady, which could have been caught but then, who inspects every proof set that crosses the counter other than to insure that all the coins are in each set? Especially if any quantity is brought in?
The name is LEE!
Actually, there is a BIG difference in the Proof Set scenario, and a few small change purses of old coins...
Anyway, as you posted earlier, we're beating a dead horse. Some people think it's fine, some people don't.
<< <i>Would the 50 sets fit into a few "change purses"? That way, the dealer could miss the better sets, not to mention no S ect.
Actually, there is a BIG difference in the Proof Set scenario, and a few small change purses of old coins...
Anyway, as you posted earlier, we're beating a dead horse. Some people think it's fine, some people don't. >>
Duh! I meant to change that to a couple of hundred sets.
But, you really need to define "change purse" since these do come in varying sizes and coupled with a bunch of jewelry.............
...................... it may not be as obvious as some folks envision in their minds.
Perhaps if Al could provide us with a relative count on the number of coins actually turned in, it might get a little clearer as to what quantity was involved.
Oh, BTW, does every 1968 Proof set you look at get checked for the Inverted or No S coins? Or do you not look at these sets for whatever reasons?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I agree that it would be easy to just buy Proof sets, and a mistake could happen. I do think that any obsolete coins would be given the "once over" at most shops. As to the "few change purses", the question has come up a number of times in these threads, and it seems that a lot of people just wanted to envision it as "a few 5 gallon buckets". I really tried to just let it go, though I personnally felt that an old man was taken advantage of, but when the OP started calling people "self righteous" just because they felt it was unjust, I just couldn't help but open my big mouth... >>
I fully agree that this was no where near the "5 Gallon bucket" scenario but my life's experience views it as "an old man missed an opportunity". Granted, few folks even know what questions to ask or where to go much less ask the right questions or go to the right place, which could have resolved all this before it ever started. A simple, "See anything important in there?" while picking up each coin may have brought the 01-S to light. Had it been a single coin or even 3 coins, hten it might have brought the 01-S to light.
But, that just didn't happen way and I don't preceive it as anybodies fault. Its just one of those things that happen to happen.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>I agree that it would be easy to just buy Proof sets, and a mistake could happen. I do think that any obsolete coins would be given the "once over" at most shops. As to the "few change purses", the question has come up a number of times in these threads, and it seems that a lot of people just wanted to envision it as "a few 5 gallon buckets". I really tried to just let it go, though I personnally felt that an old man was taken advantage of, but when the OP started calling people "self righteous" just because they felt it was unjust, I just couldn't help but open my big mouth... >>
I fully agree that this was no where near the "5 Gallon bucket" scenario but my life's experience views it as "an old man missed an opportunity". Granted, few folks even know what questions to ask or where to go much less ask the right questions or go to the right place, which could have resolved all this before it ever started. A simple, "See anything important in there?" while picking up each coin may have brought the 01-S to light. Had it been a single coin or even 3 coins, hten it might have brought the 01-S to light.
But, that just didn't happen way and I don't preceive it as anybodies fault. Its just one of those things that happen to happen. >>
<< <i>Its just one of those things that happen to happen >>
Stuff happens, people make mistakes because they're human, and we have posters here that think the whole damn world must revolve around what they "think."
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Well seaeaglecoins, here's how one local dealer I go to has always put it to me:
If you (over the counter customer) cherrypick me (dealer) because I "missed" something, more power to you. I'm a pro and it's my stock, so be it if I missed it and priced it wrong.
If I (dealer) buy from you (over the counter customer) and rip you mercilessly -- there's a special hot place for me (dealer) because you (customer) are sort of relying on me for professional, specialized knowledge.
If another dealer sells or buys to me (a dealer) and one of us "scores" on the other -- buying or selling side -- then so be it, as it's a level playing field -- we're both in this to make a living, and it's "dealer beware." >>
<< <i>Hey I've got a scenario which hasn't been brought up:
A middle aged woman goes into a relatively busy coin shop with her late husbands modest coin collection which consists mainly of proof sets from 1968 to date. There are about 50 or so sets with quantities varying from 5 to 6 sets per year. These are common clad sets so no contact information is left or even asked for.
10% back of grey sheet bid is offered for each set including a sizeable premium for that 2001-S!
Searching later on the sets reveals a 1968-S No Set set and at least 1 1968 Inverted S Kennedy along with several DCAM 1971-S Kennedy's.
What to do?
IMO, this would be a significantly more expensive loss for the lady, which could have been caught but then, who inspects every proof set that crosses the counter other than to insure that all the coins are in each set? Especially if any quantity is brought in? >>
My response: How the hell does the nature of the material being presented have any bearing on wether or not verifiable ID is obtained from a seller? In the coin shop where I am employed, EVERY seller is required to provide verifiable ID. No exceptions. What is so difficult about making that S.O.P.? The policy provides a basic, legitimate way of claiming that good title has been passed in the event of a L.E. investigation, and it certainly eliminates the excuse of a buyer that "there is no way to reconnect with the seller". Well Al, how about it?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey I've got a scenario which hasn't been brought up:
A middle aged woman goes into a relatively busy coin shop with her late husbands modest coin collection which consists mainly of proof sets from 1968 to date. There are about 50 or so sets with quantities varying from 5 to 6 sets per year. These are common clad sets so no contact information is left or even asked for.
10% back of grey sheet bid is offered for each set including a sizeable premium for that 2001-S!
Searching later on the sets reveals a 1968-S No Set set and at least 1 1968 Inverted S Kennedy along with several DCAM 1971-S Kennedy's.
What to do?
IMO, this would be a significantly more expensive loss for the lady, which could have been caught but then, who inspects every proof set that crosses the counter other than to insure that all the coins are in each set? Especially if any quantity is brought in? >>
My response: How the hell does the nature of the material being presented have any bearing on wether or not verifiable ID is obtained from a seller? In the coin shop where I am employed, EVERY seller is required to provide verifiable ID. No exceptions. What is so difficult about making that S.O.P.? The policy provides a basic, legitimate way of claiming that good title has been passed in the event of a L.E. investigation, and it certainly eliminates the excuse of a buyer that "there is no way to reconnect with the seller". Well Al, how about it? >>
I wouldn't hold my breath ..... he's made his choice. Ala 'tis better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt' not thinking there might be an adverse reaction to bragging about this big rip, well, I think all should be happy he posted so they can make their own judgement.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey I've got a scenario which hasn't been brought up:
A middle aged woman goes into a relatively busy coin shop with her late husbands modest coin collection which consists mainly of proof sets from 1968 to date. There are about 50 or so sets with quantities varying from 5 to 6 sets per year. These are common clad sets so no contact information is left or even asked for.
10% back of grey sheet bid is offered for each set including a sizeable premium for that 2001-S!
Searching later on the sets reveals a 1968-S No Set set and at least 1 1968 Inverted S Kennedy along with several DCAM 1971-S Kennedy's.
What to do?
IMO, this would be a significantly more expensive loss for the lady, which could have been caught but then, who inspects every proof set that crosses the counter other than to insure that all the coins are in each set? Especially if any quantity is brought in? >>
My response: How the hell does the nature of the material being presented have any bearing on wether or not verifiable ID is obtained from a seller? In the coin shop where I am employed, EVERY seller is required to provide verifiable ID. No exceptions. What is so difficult about making that S.O.P.? The policy provides a basic, legitimate way of claiming that good title has been passed in the event of a L.E. investigation, and it certainly eliminates the excuse of a buyer that "there is no way to reconnect with the seller". Well Al, how about it? >>
I wouldn't hold my breath ..... he's made his choice. Ala 'tis better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt' not thinking there might be an adverse reaction to bragging about this big rip, well, I think all should be happy he posted so they can make their own judgement. >>
What a totally ignorant statement.
strangely, i feel that through no effort on my part to do so, i have irreparably damaged my credibility here, a very strange thing indeed. members i have trusted have seen fit to hammer away while some forum names i don't even recognize have joined the fight. worst of all, there are some that i thought i had a good relationship with through BST transactions and general interaction in threads who have cast doubt on that due to their very judgemental attitudes.
i can't say this LOUD enough------all over one incident that's been picked apart.
and to think, i have noone to blame but myself for bringing it up in the first place.
others,then they are prepared to do themselves.
It is somewhat like a politician demanding moral
ethics of others, while they are cheating on their
wife.
This incident is merely one of 10,000 that occur
every day. What folks declare they would do in a
hypothetical situation, is often quite different then
they would do in real life.
Camelot
<< <i>
What a totally ignorant statement.
Hi there knucklehead - point me to where he posted that he had any queasy feelings for how this customer was 'treated' and I will gladly apologize to him. Otherwise just go back to what you seem to do best - wasting PCGS bandwidth space with your consistantly huge empty air posts
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey I've got a scenario which hasn't been brought up:
A middle aged woman goes into a relatively busy coin shop with her late husbands modest coin collection which consists mainly of proof sets from 1968 to date. There are about 50 or so sets with quantities varying from 5 to 6 sets per year. These are common clad sets so no contact information is left or even asked for.
10% back of grey sheet bid is offered for each set including a sizeable premium for that 2001-S!
Searching later on the sets reveals a 1968-S No Set set and at least 1 1968 Inverted S Kennedy along with several DCAM 1971-S Kennedy's.
What to do?
IMO, this would be a significantly more expensive loss for the lady, which could have been caught but then, who inspects every proof set that crosses the counter other than to insure that all the coins are in each set? Especially if any quantity is brought in? >>
My response: How the hell does the nature of the material being presented have any bearing on wether or not verifiable ID is obtained from a seller? In the coin shop where I am employed, EVERY seller is required to provide verifiable ID. No exceptions. What is so difficult about making that S.O.P.? The policy provides a basic, legitimate way of claiming that good title has been passed in the event of a L.E. investigation, and it certainly eliminates the excuse of a buyer that "there is no way to reconnect with the seller". Well Al, how about it? >>
My Counter-Response: Simply because Al's shop does not require it as there obviously is no LAW governing it.
The name is LEE!