A grade posting for "originalisbest" and anyone else who might care.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
We had sent this out on a five-day submission to beat the rush before PCGS left for the ANA Convention and the grade posted a short while ago at VG8, precisely where we had assumed it would. There was really never a question about the grade or whether the coin was genuine despite the wild speculation by many others who might consider going and doing a quick edit!!!
In the end, for me at least, I think this entire episode has been a very graphic demonstration of the worst side of quite a few members, spiteful being the word that best describes many of the responses to the original thread in my humble opinion. I feel certain some will see this thread as gloating and that's OK as well as expected.
I bear noone ill will, hopefully we can all just get along a bit better in the future and perhaps be more consistent. I will post a picture as soon as I can.
Alo H.
Order #20321713 / Submission #3935379
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1 15929980 5630 1901-S 25C US VG08
In the end, for me at least, I think this entire episode has been a very graphic demonstration of the worst side of quite a few members, spiteful being the word that best describes many of the responses to the original thread in my humble opinion. I feel certain some will see this thread as gloating and that's OK as well as expected.
I bear noone ill will, hopefully we can all just get along a bit better in the future and perhaps be more consistent. I will post a picture as soon as I can.
Alo H.
Order #20321713 / Submission #3935379
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1 15929980 5630 1901-S 25C US VG08
0
Comments
Nice collectors grade key date Barber there!
Let me be the first to Congrat you, or rather the shop owner I guess. VG8 is a wonderful grade, I'm jealous.
If you hadn't been working for a coin shop, I'd offer a "You Suck" but it appears that it will be your boss thats sucking!
The name is LEE!
for that day during a certain time just is not worth the effort to
track down the old man, eh?
makes me think no one at the store ever had any intention of really
trying to locate the old man. it is very possible to do.. but profits come first.
i really do not care either way.. and do not blame you for not trying..
but whatever. the chance was there to make an old man very happy.
take my word for it, there are several people that were made "happy" from this including my old man who's 83!!! as a matter of fact, i can't think of anyone who knows about it outside of this chatroom who isn't happy. this has all been hashed out in 9+ pages, aren't you done yet?? you really need to get past your long held resentment towards dealers based on a single event.
trust me, that would be good for your soul.
<< <i>the chance was there to make an old man very happy.
take my word for it, there are several people that were made "happy" from this including my old man who's 83!!! as a matter of fact, i can't think of anyone who knows about it outside of this chatroom who isn't happy. this has all been hashed out in 9+ pages, aren't you done yet?? you really need to get past your long held resentment towards dealers based on a single event.
trust me, that would be good for your soul.
Wow what an attitude.
<< <i>
<< <i>the chance was there to make an old man very happy.
take my word for it, there are several people that were made "happy" from this including my old man who's 83!!! as a matter of fact, i can't think of anyone who knows about it outside of this chatroom who isn't happy. this has all been hashed out in 9+ pages, aren't you done yet?? you really need to get past your long held resentment towards dealers based on a single event.
trust me, that would be good for your soul.
Wow what an attitude. >>
Yes, yours speaks volumes.
This old IDIOT comes in without spending the prior god knows how many years methuselah was around before he bothered to try selling these coins to try to have any inkling of what he has. He comes into a busy store and plunks the UNSORTED coins down. Now a busy employee does not have the time to sort them without possibly the god knows how big deal behind him walking to the shop down the street. I might have caught it if I looked at the same deal, but if I didnt I would not have lost any sleep over it.
All of you on your high high horse.
Start a shop.
Run it like you claim is right.
Have fun with your drywall bucket deals that want them sorted in front of them. Will You call them afterwards when you find a $20 coin you bought for $4?
Let us know how swiftly you go under........or change your attitude.
Until youve done it yourself for years and dealt with every manner of humanity that comes in a coin shop shut up! This is not single antique chairs folks, we're talking hundreds or thousands of single coins brought into a ultra busy shop not even sorted by denomination.
Rude on the customers part to even bring it in like that in my opinion. Stupid not to spend the time to look through it even passingly. BULK BROUGHT IN, BULK PRICE PAID OUT........
Try this slight rewriting of your analysis:
This old IDIOT comes in without spending the prior god knows how many years methuselah was around before he bothered to try to determine what his cough is so he has no inkling of what he has. He comes into a busy doctor's office and plunks himself down. Now a busy nurse does not have the time to take a thorough history before possibly the god knows how sick a person walks into the office. The doctor might have caught the patient's (then) curable lung cancer if he looked carefully at the case, but if he didnt I would not have lost any sleep over it.
Obviously there is a vast difference between a coin shop and a doctor's office. But your reasoning seems to go through in both cases. And, quite frankly, given your attitude toward customers, I sure hope I never accidentally wonder into your shop. And, because I am a generally kind person, I hope you never accidentally wonder in the doctor's office I describe above.
As I recall Keet's initial post, the old gentleman did not have an immense number of coins. There were few enough that Keets was able to go through them that afternoon. Hence this is very unlike the other customer who brought thousands of unsorted cents to Keet's shop. That was truly a bulk deal and if Keets discovered, 3 months after the deal was made, a 1914-D cent in the hoard, then I think it is not terribly unethical to keep that coin for himself (or, actually, the shop's owner keeps for himself) because there was a lot of value-added sorting through thousands of coins. But the silver Keets purchased that day wasn't thousands of coins; it was few enough so that Keets was able to sort it that same afternoon. Plus Keets demonstrated an incredible lack of knowledge that dearly cost the gentleman who brought the coins into the shop because Keets related that he did not know that a 1901-S quarter was a rare quarter until he looked it up. The older man selling the coins was relying on Keet's ethics, professionalism, and knowledge for a fair deal. An ethical, professional, and knowledgeable dealer, quickly scanning the coins, would have spotted the 1901-S, realized what it was, and offered the customer a fair price. I think Keets maybe failed on all three counts. But what I would like to think is that if Keets owned the shop himself, he might have worked a bit harder to locate the customer and that he was constrained in so doing by the actual owner. At least that's what I would like to think....
starting about a week or two ago we had been in some negotiations with a gentleman who had a sizeable collection of mostly Canadian coinage from the mid 1800's to date. there were countless phone calls, fax's, and consultations with another guy who finally agreed to meet this guy in our shop. we cleared a space so things could be done during regular hours so as not to interrupt the flow of normal business.
our "consultant" was there when i arrived at work today and the gentleman with the collection arrived shortly therafter. almost five hours later, after going through everything coin-by-coin and making a fair offer the guy walked away.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
-----then i started a spoof Poll that nobody seemed to "get" with many believing i would really do the "right" thing if they told me to, whatever the "right" thing might be.
-----it seemed the reasonable thing to do was to post the grade in its own thread and allow those who thought it was counterfiet to admit they were wrong
-----yeah, that'll happen!!!
now, fcloud, why not tune us in to why you hold such resentment towards dealers??
<< <i>Drywall bucket deals >>
LOL. I think i've seen this.
I've spent many hours at my local 'good' coin shop and am always amazed at how the owner quickly handles any situation a customer can bring on. Especially if the customers are two deep or more.
The logistics of multiple simultaneous large deals and shows makes ones head spin. Makes me happy i'm just a collector.
It's sublime how the original story has mutated so.
I think it would be fun to work in a coin shop. But i'm not giving up my day job for a while yet.
<< <i>-----well, i deleted the posts to the initial thread and it seemed to me that it would be a little disingenuous to start posting to that thread again.
-----then i started a spoof Poll that nobody seemed to "get" with many believing i would really do the "right" thing if they told me to, whatever the "right" thing might be.
-----it seemed the reasonable thing to do was to post the grade in its own thread and allow those who thought it was counterfiet to admit they were wrong
-----yeah, that'll happen!!!
now, fcloud, why not tune us in to why you hold such resentment towards dealers?? >>
Al,
I have said what I said in the other thread and people can go to the first one to see my comments. My words have been twisted around by some in the threads that if someone want to check what I said they can go there. I didn't delete anything, so my comments are there. If people want to think less of me for my comments, that's just the way it goes. You have linked the thread for them so it is easy to get to.
Tony
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Edited to add: How's that for an analogy?
it sickens me, but it makes my time here easier to navigate knowing how members can really be.
<< <i>Until youve done it yourself for years and dealt with every manner of humanity that comes in a coin shop shut up! >>
I do have one and run it by myself, but wouldnt have missed this coin, I can assure you!!!!
enough said
<< <i>To the earlier poster, " about running a shop"
I do have one and run it by myself, but wouldnt have missed this coin, I can assure you!!!!
enough said >>
I've had a b&m store for over 15 years. And yes I go through thier coins.
I've even called someone back when their coin graded better than expected.
So I'm not on my high horse I'm just telling you what I do.
I would have done my best to locate the old man.
Of course you did didn't you ?
:;
One of the things that I was most puzzled about in your other two threads were the posters who "knew" the coin was counterfeit. I often find it tough to determine if a coin is counterfeit when shown a picture; how someone can make this determination without even a picture simply stuns me. I guess they are sufficiently in tune with all the world's vibrations that they can attend physic fairs without ever even seeing an advertisment for the fair...
You don't like how most people viewed the transaction.
You deleted all your posts/comments from the first thread you created.
You created a "spoof" thread/poll to poke at people.
Now you created this thread.
You just want to rub salt in the wound, for those that didn't agree with how things went down, don't you?
Not sure why you couldn't/can't just let it drop unless you want the attention....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>you guys can't know how happy i am to know that you never make any mistakes and always, always, always can find the time to search 1000% of everything, not to say having the time to set all your work aside and track down an anonymous customer. i applaud you. >>
They just take bigger doses of
<< <i>keets is an attention whore, it's as simple as that. >>
<< <i>Keets, about the guy walking away after your shop looking through his stuff for 5 hours? That's just a matter of having the right policies in place. I can tell you that dealers I know wouldn't spend such an amount of time without first making clear that they either get a shot to buy the deal, or if not, that's fine but then they'll be owed something for their time, or a percentage of the value stated, etc. It doesn't need to be extravagant, just something that's fair, and clearly posted on a sign in the shop behind the counter, etc. Most reasonable would-be sellers won't have a problem with this. >>
Local dealer, around here, has a policy that if you bring in too much for him to look at at one time, or that he needs a specialist, then he asks you to leave the coins and he won't make an immediate offer...he will wait until they are gone through (Renton Coin Shop).
Saw him do that a few times when I was in his shop on the weekend.
So, each shop has different policies and some seem more fair than others.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
People get screwed all the time, just look at the seller of the Bueregard dime for $200. But you know what that is America. Use knowledge to your advantage and win. No one did anything unethical, no one intentionally screwed anyone in either case.
While we can feel sorry for those who lost out on opportunity, they likely have no clue what happened and could care less.
I guess one could ask directed towards Keets, "would you want the same outcome if you were on the selling end of this deal"? My answer would be no, BUT in defense of Keets and most trustworthy dealers alike, knowing that old coins someone had could be very valuable and not doing some research ahead of time is the seller's fault. Sure, there were things that could have been done a little differently such as get a name/phone #, but if the customer decides he doesn't want to deal with that, what can you do?
I bet some that flamed away right off the bat doesn't understand what some ultra-busy B&M shops have to deal with on a daily basis. Not the one's that have 10-20 customers/day, but the lined up customers with drywall buckets full of stuff......probably junk most of the time.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
Current Coin World has an article on Pg 5... seems a Vermont collector into "Darkside" material...spotted a nice coin in a lot up for auction... bid on and won the lot for under $30...knowing the one coin was worth hundreds...
THEN...found out that another old coin in the lot was worth approx. $15,000... he is applauded for his "cherrypicking" and luck... no mention in the article of giving more to the auction house or trying to find the consignor of the lot in order to share the bounty...
Also, just looked to see if any threads were started over on "that" forum...but did not see one...
To my experience... many, if not most, darkside collectors/dealers use their knowledge as leverage over other's lack thereof...
Seems that the general "rule of thumb" and "consensus" by many here on the US Coin Forum is... it is OK to cherrypick and/or score a rip ONLY IF you are a collector and you only score on a dealer (who should always know better because they are in business)... BUT (CAPITALIZED AND UNDERLINED WITH EXCLAMATION MARKS) ... a dealer should never cherrypick or try to score a rip EVER... {edited to add --- or ever make a mistake or an oversight...ever}
I do wonder, though... is it OK for a dealer to cherrypick or rip another dealer? Or is that only reserved for collectors? Just asking...
...and a note to Al ... I tend to agree with your assesment of some of the population here in this little microcosmic Universe... there are many here who, if they behave in "real life" as they behave here, I would just as soon not meet them... some because they are self-righteous and rude ... others because they would intimidate me with their incredible perfection...
If you (over the counter customer) cherrypick me (dealer) because I "missed" something, more power to you. I'm a pro and it's my stock, so be it if I missed it and priced it wrong.
If I (dealer) buy from you (over the counter customer) and rip you mercilessly -- there's a special hot place for me (dealer) because you (customer) are sort of relying on me for professional, specialized knowledge.
If another dealer sells or buys to me (a dealer) and one of us "scores" on the other -- buying or selling side -- then so be it, as it's a level playing field -- we're both in this to make a living, and it's "dealer beware."
You're losing objective credibility buddy. If you want to stand on the highest mountain top singing "Dealers do no wrong!", then do it, but to insult our intelligence with your own pot stirring? Pretty sad.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Seaeagle, I know you are a dealer and that you really take offense to it whenever people (usually collectors) post something that isn't flattering about dealers, but, come on. You bring up examples that aren't even apple to apple.
You're losing objective credibility buddy. If you want to stand on the highest mountain top singing "Dealers do no wrong!", then do it, but to insult our intelligence with your own pot stirring? Pretty sad. >>
Really?...I'm not standing on a mountain top... nor saying that dealers do no wrong... as I attempted in another thread a week or so ago... simply trying to find the defining dividing line between a "You suck!"
Let's say keets had done the deal... but never checked the coins and then the coins were sold in a bulk lot to a walk-in for a small mark up... (and these kind of things do happen...or else why would that dealer of originalbest say what they did?)
Now...based on what I've gathered here...it is OK to get a rip from a dealer... so OK... now the person gets that bag home and finds the 1901-S and comes here to the forum to celebrate their score... atta boys and you sucks all around and off to where ever tired threads go when they're done and an addition to someone's sig line...(I got a you suck on ....)
Again...where is this elusive moral and righteous "do the right thing" line?
edited to add ... is it OK to score the 1901-S in the above hypothetical... with the dealer as unknowing middleman? Only if found by the dealer is there a moral obligation to do "the right thing"? When someone scores off the dealer, there is no need to consider that if the dealer missed it before you got it, they also missed it when they bought it from Aunt Sue or Uncle Joe...??? Where is the "line"?
You're the one who said it was "a few change purses"
"i'm wondering where originalisbest is at??? after all his critcism and his "suggestion" and willingness to BET that the coin was a counterfiet i thought he'd at least be a gentleman and come admit he was wrong. perhaps he just hasn't seen the thread......................... "
I think people were saying it MAY be counterfeit to give you an "out" as to taking advantage of the old guy!
You need to learn to let sleeping dogs lie! If it was your old mother, or old father, who was ripped off (yes, I finally said it) by a dealer, would you applaud the dealer and make excuses as to why it was perfectly acceptable? I've been kind of quiet on this subject, but when it turns into an attack on people WITH MORALS (self righteous, ect.), then it's time to call a spade a spade! All of the defenders of this "rip off", should think about what they may have posted in the past about dealers cheating an old lady "right in front of me!", "..should I have spoken up?", and on and on. Am I the last honest person alive? Or, maybe, one of the few who won't except this behavior, just because the perp is a "regular". Keets, if your conscience isn't bothering you, why do you keep bringing it up? Go ahead, flame away, but I'm happy with my morals, and I sleep good at night.....
edited because I never spell "quiet" right the first time...
<< <i>What if the "old man" in the original scenario actually stole the group of coins years ago and is just now cashing in? >>
That's another excellent reason for a dealer to rip off a customer, "maybe they are stolen coins!"
Now on the other hand (to repeat myself from the other thread) if I'm going through some coins for say, a nice old neighbor lady, and I find a '14-D, I don't pocket it, or buy it from her for a nickel and laugh all the way home. Rather, I place it in a holder for her and explain the value. This is an actual example of something I once did when 14 years old.
Oh and here's other examples of my dealings with a local dealer: we were shooting the bull and it was a lazy Saturday when I was going through empty old albums he had for sale in a box, your choice $5. Flipping through an empty type Dansco, from between the pages popped out a decent fine 1866 nickel three cent piece. I gave it to him and he said "hey, thanks for your honesty." It was no big deal and felt better than if I'd just bought the album and kept the coin. It went unnoticed by him, and likely unnoticed by whomever gave/sold the album to him, not a big deal in any case -- but then, we're not talking about a $10,000 coin that we remember the party who sold it to us, either.
Another example, a couple I can think of, in fact. I was going through his "cheap" box of coins recently and noticed not one, but two decent VG 05-O micro dimes priced at like $3-4 each. I advised him to reprice both -- he said "oh, that's cool" and didn't realize the variety was a little better. He said to me keep the better for $3, and I suppose he repriced the other one -- it was sold next time I went in.
Went in again not long ago, and there in the box was another micro O '05-O. Pointed it out again, and again he said "huh -- well, whatever, $3 is fine." He had no interest in marking me up and I got another good deal.
In all honesty, this particular dealer I go to all the time? If it ever happened that he had an 01-S quarter in a junk box and I bought it for say, $2.50 -- I'd offer to have it graded and sold and I'd give him whatever part of the windfall. Maybe I'd offer half the profits, and maybe he'd say oh no, that's too much -- but that's very nice of you -- how about $1000? And it would probably work out as something like that. I have no way of knowing exactly -- as it's all theoretical. But something like that is how it would go with me.
Hope that answers your questions.