Interview with Don Willis – Discussing the Term PQ

SportsModerator2

In this weeks PCGS eCollector Newsletter, we interviewed Don Willis regarding the term PQ.

We decided to direct subscribers to post their thoughts regarding PQ or their comments here on the PCGS Message Boards.

Jaime Hernandez


Link to Article

rgCoinGuy

Pretty interesting observations. I am curious how the 40% markup amount came about from the interviewer and then in Don's response to the question.

Another thought, has PCGS considered doing something like the NGC Star to designate PQ, or Superior Eye Appeal for the grade?

CopperWire

Thanks for the link.

YaHa

I have many coins in my collection that are PQ.. Example, I have a nice ms 66 Georgia quarter that didn't make prooflike but has mirrors.. So, I guess this could be a PQ coin?..

Very nice summary by Don Willis.

ProofCents

I think many sellers use the Term PQ to justfy a high (above market) selling price some are correct most are not

lkeigwin

PQ to me is pretty and undergraded. Here's a not-too-special Lincoln graded PCGS MS63. Although not toned I think it's pretty and I think it's better than a 63. Ha...I own it so naturally I think it deserves a point or more.
Lance.

dizzyfoxx

Don definitely knows his stuff. Anyone who visited his table when he use set up at shows can attest to that.

Regarding the term "PQ", I think that is the most over-used and over-inflated description term in the hobby. I have seen on numerous occasions where stickers on coins in cases at shows are labeled as "PQ" or advertised on the net as "PQ". I would say of all the coins that I have seen that were labeled as "PQ", about 20% or less actually were IMHO.

Best thing to do? ....read Don's article and listen, learn, and understand.

Staircoins

The term 'PQ' can have varying connotations. It can certainly mean that the coin has superior eye appeal, but many sellers use it to mean that the coin is, in their opinion, legitimately undergraded. (Of course, I wouldn't expect DW to refer to any coin in a PCGS holder as being either under- or overgraded. )

Many sellers also validate their claims that their coins are PQ via the liberal application of green beans - CAC's published standards notwithstanding.

ArizonaJack

<< <i>PQ to me is pretty and undergraded. Here's a not-too-special Lincoln graded PCGS MS63. Although not toned I think it's pretty and I think it's better than a 63. Ha...I own it so naturally I think it deserves a point or more.
Lance.

>>



Thats as PQ as it gets Lance, WOW

RedTiger

Good article.

I tend to leave the PQ game to others, the 10% or 20% of collectors with superior grading skills. I don't have the grading chops to play in that league, and I know it. I much prefer average coins at average prices.

What puzzles me is the large number of collectors that claim they collect only quality, when they can't grade their way out of a paper bag. PQ within a single grade point, becomes near meaningless if a person can't get the grade right if the slab label is covered up. For newbies (five years or less), the hunt for PQ often translates into the opposite. A newbie might see the dipped, AT, and otherwise market acceptable coins as the most desirable--coins that veterans tend to avoid, often end up going home with the newbie.

Justacommeman

Don should know....The name of his company afterall was "Premium" Numismatics

JupitarCoins

Very good article Don. PQ to me means premium quality.

bidask

Gus Tiso handles only PQ coins as advertised.

LeeG

Nice interview and thanks for sharing it. I feel the term is overused and doesn't really have a true meaning anymore. It's up to each collector to determine it's meaning to them based on experience in looking at coins in their series. For me, it's above average for the grade, i.e., 67.8, but limiting factors preventing the next higher grade.

As an example, this coin has phenomenal lustre but too many marks for a 67. Was NGC 67 RB and I crossed it to it's current holder, POP 2/0. I even had some thought that it may cross into a 65 holder. I selected 66 as a minimum grade. The lustre carried it into the correct holder.

MikeInFL

Is it possible to have a PQ coin in an overgraded holder?

golfer72

That 26d Lincoln is at least two points undergraded. Great coin

golfer72

If PQ means eye appeal that is completely subjective. I dont need anyone else telling me that a coin has nice eye appeal. A grade is different. That has some objectivity to it although from what i see in various slabs its hard to see a lot of the time.

RedTiger

<< <i>Is it possible to have a PQ coin in an overgraded holder? >>



There is an interview question that sort of addresses that. I vote: PQ for the grade, no. PQ for the series or date/mintmark, certainly. If the opinion is "overgraded," by definition the coin can't be PQ for the grade on the label. That doesn't preclude the coin from being a nice example, a nice addition to a collection, for some that answer would depend on the relative pricing.

scottgardener

I get the impression that PQ implies both eye appeal and "solid for the grade" coins--those that are exemplary for their currently assigned grade but didn't quite make the next grade up. The problem is, those are two different concepts. With the first, a coin that is re-graded the next step up can remain branded PQ, because eye appeal is something you've either got or not. With the second, upgrading to the next number can not only yank out the PQ label, but can reduce the coin to "barely made it" status.

For this reason, I tend to avoid use of the term "PQ." It means too many different things.

Eye appeal is subjective. I love toning, but there are plenty of others out there who don't. NGC did a good thing by introducing the star designation, which allows the grader to recognize a certain special appeal that distinguishes a coin from others of the same grade. But, eye appeal is not only subjective; it's also highly variable. If one coin can have good eye appeal, another can have great eye appeal, and yet another can have better eye appeal. Also, we don't see an NGC "!" designation for ugly coins, the ones that tend to get passed from vendor to vendor in the sight-unseen trading, while collectors invariably ask if the seller has any others.

For the "MS64-and-a-half" coins that almost make the next grade, there's the sticker guys, the "fourth party" grading services that grade already graded coins--because coin grading isn't confusing enough as-is. I'll consider that a stickered coin is "PQ," though the system that Scott Travers describes in the Coin Collector's Survival Manual is a bit more precise. Within a given grade, say, MS64, there are "A" coins, "B" coins, and "C" coins. MS64-A coins are coins that are almost MS65-worthy; MS64-B coins are more typical representatives of the grade. And, MS64-C coins barely make the grade. They're still good enough to qualify, and grading them MS63 is a disservice that could be corrected by having the coin regraded (and then, it would seem, sold for profit). This is admittedly an arbitrary subdivision, as some "A" coins are better than other "A" coins. And, when one splits each grade into three sub-grades, then that increases the variability in the eyes of one grader to the next--it's a lot harder to get a dozen coin experts to agree on where to put the coin if instead of eleven uncirculated slots you've got 31. (I'm going to assume that MS70 has no A, B, or C, since you can't be "just barely perfect" or "almost more than perfect".) And, I'm probably being a bit ambitious with my own skills, since I'm still training my eyes to recognize the eleven grades of MS. But, the A, B, and C system is indeed an objective system, whereas "PQ" is less precise. Maybe it's my biological sciences and medical upbringing; I just like knowing whether someone's "doodlebug" is an ant lion or a rolly polly, or when someone is "dizzy" if they're experiencing vertigo or nausea.

"PQ" is also a heavily abused marketing term. It's not quite as bad as "brilliant uncirculated," but it's headed in that direction. Ever once see someone advertise a coin that's "dull uncirculated"?

ThePennyLady

I enjoyed reading Don's interview, and yes he knows his coins. He used to set up at my monthly show in Anaheim and always had beautiful high end coins, and definitely knows the coin business - I'm sure that's one of the reasons why PCGS snagged him! I agree with his take on the use PQ in the coin business and believe it can help define a coin's grade with more specificity. Of course, grading is quite subjective, so perhaps PQ is overused by some dealers. To me, part of the validity in identifying a coin as PQ is that you need to trust the person who is using the term PQ to be qualified and an accurate grader of that coin series.

I had special stickers made that say "PQ!" in red print and use them sparingly on some of my coins for sale. There are coins, both circulated and uncirculated, that are really nice, have exceptional eye appeal and a great strike as Don mentions, and/or have minimal distractions and marks for the grade given, but that coin might not quite meet the criteria for the next grade - so those coins to me would qualify as PQ. And, therefore, coins that are PQ should qualify for a higher markup, especially PQ RB coins that are closer to 90+% red, or coins that probably would upgrade.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>I think many sellers use the Term PQ to justfy a high (above market) selling price some are correct most are not >>



So if they are correct, then isn't a PQ coin worth more than the same coin that's average or a dog?

lkeigwin

<< <i>Ever once see someone advertise a coin that's "dull uncirculated"? >>

I've done that, in a sense. In fact I have an ebay aution going on right now where I say "I'm not crazy about this Lincoln. Sure, it's in remarkable shape with original, unmessed with color, a solid strike, and very few hits. It should be, as a PCGS 66RD. What bothers me is eye appeal. With decent light it looks just fine. But under ordinary lighting it looks very average with some splotchy shadows."

This isn't going to win me a great auction price on a $500 coin. But it does help me sleep at night. And it says a bit about other coins for sale I praise.
Lance.

TwoSides2aCoin

There's an old saying that "something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it".
PQ is what's necessary to convince 'em of this fact.

WoodenJefferson

Through out the years, PQ has always meant an early die struck coin along with minimal amount of nicks or tics in the focal points. It did not matte what year or which mint it came from, but was usually associated with business struck coins, but proofs can also be included.

I’ve never associated PQ with heavy mottled toning, but a nice subtle tone improves the eye appeal of a coin, be it silver or nickel compositions. The over all appearance, a coin that just stands out from the rest is PQ in my eyes.

Good article, opinions sway heavily in this hobby, so anything positive is a re-enforcement for this hobby.

messydesk

Given 6 coins of a specific grade, the one that's PQ is the coin that 4 out of 5 people would prefer 9 times out of 10.

ricko

PQ is really a sales term, although there is no doubt it has practical application in some cases. With the advent and acceptance of TPGrading, it can only apply to those with the nebulous 'eye appeal' features. I say nebulous since all do not find the same attributes attractive. For example, some find toning attractive (for some inexplicable reason) while I do not (in case that is not generally known).
It is unlikely that the term will go away since so many are involved in 'selling' coins...... and each little descriptor (grade, bean, PQ) becomes part of the pitch. It is all about the money - although, there are truly some PQ coins. Cheers, RickO

Steve27

Unless and until I see the term "PQ" placed by PCGS on their slabs, it's just another meaningless term used to hype coin sales.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>Given 6 coins of a specific grade, the one that's PQ is the coin that 4 out of 5 people would prefer 9 times out of 10. >>



I like that, John.

lkeigwin

<< <i>

<< <i>Given 6 coins of a specific grade, the one that's PQ is the coin that 4 out of 5 people would prefer 9 times out of 10. >>



I like that, John. >>

But what if all six are truly outstanding in condition, grade and appearance?
Lance.

DrPete

I like Don's answers and explanations about "PQ". It is certainly a subjective term and is overutilized by certain individuals. I know I have seen ads in numismatic publications of coins for sale by dealers where virtually all coins are listed at "PQ". I find this problematic and think that such situations are probably not true. The term loses its meaning when over-done, like so many other things in life.

It is interesting to see that there have been a variety of commercial efforts to flag certain coins as "PQ" and that includes the star designation by NGC, the "eagle eye" designation for FE/Indian cents, and the little green (and gold) stickers that have arrived more recently. Whether or not PCGS chooses to go this route is an interesting concept, but to my knowledge no specific product or project has come forward.

My take is to educate yourself as to what coins you want to collect and get smarter by studying as many coins as possible, study auction lots, attend coin shows, take grading courses, talk to expert dealers, and find a comfort zone where you want to be; and keep learning. As a physician I am used to the concept of a lifetime of learning. I utilize one dealer for most all of my transactions and he has a very good eye and we work well together. Subjective opinions as to how many of my coins are "PQ" are interesting, but not the main driving force in my collecting habits.

grip

Pick one good looking women out of six good looking women.

I dont believe i could sticker just one.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Given 6 coins of a specific grade, the one that's PQ is the coin that 4 out of 5 people would prefer 9 times out of 10. >>



I like that, John. >>

But what if all six are truly outstanding in condition, grade and appearance?
Lance. >>



Then all 6 are PQ. If one has a coin thats really nice in strike and eye appeal for a given grade then what term or terms does one use to describe it? Is the same coin at the same grade in the same plastic that's a just made it ugly POS anti-PQ?

Walmann

I weigh the word of the seller calling a coin PQ lightly, but give great weight when the coin itself calls out PQ.

It is better to let your own eyes do the judging versus word or label.

MilesWaits

PQ = Perceptual Quotient.

Any measurement is based off of a numerical Pissing Qontest; thus, my 2009 UHR and 2008 $50 Proof Platinum are the Ultimate PQ.

All else fall below, regardless of eye appeal or "under grading" criteria and the subsequent feeling of PQ or Perceptual Quotient i.e. "overcompensation due to feeling less worthy than others."

Miles

dizzyfoxx

<< <i>Unless and until I see the term "PQ" placed by PCGS on their slabs, it's just another meaningless term used to hype coin sales. >>

roadrunner

PQ = CAC "gold"

There are no dealers who sell just PQ coins. However, in their minds and advertisements they may think/state otherwise. Doesn't matter what you call them: upgrade candidates, pq, monster, top 5% for grade, etc. Ironically, it make have been the old B&M who started all this back in the 1970's when they started using the term "BU with rub." Nothing has been the same since.

roadrunner

commoncents123

Isn't this PQ?

Broadstruck

IMHO a PQ coin is a coin solid for the grade with eye appeal and strike well beyond it's grade point, an example that just jumps out from the crowd as something special.

soty27

The term PQ is thrown around like air. Watch now you will see a 40% markup online due to PQ quality coins that are really not PQ.

RBinTex

Seems like a golden opportunity for PCGS to capitalize on a bean/star/"pq" designation of their own.

Us shareholders say GO!!!

Or was this article the pre-cursor?

tradedollarnut

PQ = CAC "gold"

Certainly CAC gold stickered coins are indeed PQ, but there's a huge percentage of coins that don't qualify for a gold sticker that are still PQ. However, it's my opinion that a lot of PQness is inherently eye appeal related and thus subject to individual interpretation.

BAJJERFAN

I think it would be interesting to go to a show and hand DW a box of 20 slabbed coins and a checklist and ask him to designate which are PQ and which aren't. Then go around and ask 9 or 10 others the same thing.

Fairlaneman

"However, it's my opinion that a lot of PQness is inherently eye appeal related and thus subject to individual interpretation."

Thats the bottom line folks.

Ken

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>"However, it's my opinion that a lot of PQness is inherently eye appeal related and thus subject to individual interpretation."

Thats the bottom line folks.

Ken >>



Unless it's an A-Box toner there is no way in hell to give a ms 60 or 61 Morgan enough eye appeal to make it PQ.

tradedollarnut

<< <i>

<< <i>"However, it's my opinion that a lot of PQness is inherently eye appeal related and thus subject to individual interpretation."

Thats the bottom line folks.

Ken >>



Unless it's an A-Box toner there is no way in hell to give a ms 60 or 61 Morgan enough eye appeal to make it PQ. >>



I disagree. A coin on the line between 60 and 61 may look like crap overall, but it's still a PQ 60.

Yachtsman

Thanks for the link and the interesting discussion regarding PQ coins.
It appears that becoming proficient in recognizing PQ coins that are not labeled as such, can add another dimension to the cherry picking activity that many astute collectors enjoy. I had not previously considered this aspect of cherry picking, and I find it very interesting.

Thanks

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>"However, it's my opinion that a lot of PQness is inherently eye appeal related and thus subject to individual interpretation."

Thats the bottom line folks.

Ken >>



Unless it's an A-Box toner there is no way in hell to give a ms 60 or 61 Morgan enough eye appeal to make it PQ. >>



I disagree. A coin on the line between 60 and 61 may look like crap overall, but it's still a PQ 60. >>



Well, I suppose anything can be PQ for what it is, but unless it's a truce scarce or rare coin, it's probly not of much interest. A PQ dog is still a dog.

TwoSides2aCoin

Premium Quality

That's the bottom line. There's little to explain with such simple terms.

morgansforever

PQ when your selling, harshly cleaned or baggy when your buying.
Interpretation will vary, one mans PQ piece, may not be mine, or visa versa.
I believe it to mean, solid for the assigned grade, coupled with outstanding eye appeal.
Thanks for the link.

RaginsteveK

<< <i>

<< <i>Ever once see someone advertise a coin that's "dull uncirculated"? >>

I've done that, in a sense. In fact I have an ebay aution going on right now where I say "I'm not crazy about this Lincoln. Sure, it's in remarkable shape with original, unmessed with color, a solid strike, and very few hits. It should be, as a PCGS 66RD. What bothers me is eye appeal. With decent light it looks just fine. But under ordinary lighting it looks very average with some splotchy shadows."

This isn't going to win me a great auction price on a $500 coin. But it does help me sleep at night. And it says a bit about other coins for sale I praise.
Lance. >>



I've sold an MS65 Morgan that "bothered" me, as an UNC "with a problem". I'm sure it cost me, but I didnt want to risk someone coming back saying it was a lousy looking MS65, in hand- worse than the photo indicated.

Recently bought 2 1918 Lincoln commems- MS 64- which TO ME are more appealing than the MS65s I've seen, including one that I returned for a refund.
Also have a Lafayette MS61 which appeared nicer than the MS64 the dealer had available.

Are these PQ coins? to me they are.

MikeInFL

Has anyone heard the term PQ when two collectors are discussing coins that aren't necessarily for sale? Or is PQ only used when it comes time to sell a coin?

Just wondering...Mike