Jeter
markj111
Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
From a link on Neyer's website:
NEW YORK—Thanks to his vaunted grace and tremendous skill, Yankees captain Derek Jeter was able Tuesday night to make a pop-up to shortstop look as routine as it actually was. "Look at him effortlessly settle under that ball and close his glove around it as it falls slowly in," gushed Yankees radio announcer John Sterling, who also had the privilege of broadcasting Jeter's catch of a soft humpback liner in 2002. Teammate Robinson Cano added that "watching him day in and day out, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that everyone makes that kind of play all the time… It's a joy just watching him glide up the middle, catch the ball on a stolen base attempt, and lay down the tag as if he's done it a million times before, which he has. What a teammate." Later in the inning, Jeter made an easy play look difficult with that jump-throw thing he doesn't need to do.
NEW YORK—Thanks to his vaunted grace and tremendous skill, Yankees captain Derek Jeter was able Tuesday night to make a pop-up to shortstop look as routine as it actually was. "Look at him effortlessly settle under that ball and close his glove around it as it falls slowly in," gushed Yankees radio announcer John Sterling, who also had the privilege of broadcasting Jeter's catch of a soft humpback liner in 2002. Teammate Robinson Cano added that "watching him day in and day out, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that everyone makes that kind of play all the time… It's a joy just watching him glide up the middle, catch the ball on a stolen base attempt, and lay down the tag as if he's done it a million times before, which he has. What a teammate." Later in the inning, Jeter made an easy play look difficult with that jump-throw thing he doesn't need to do.
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Comments
<< <i>Ohhh here we go with more of Markj111's love of Jeter bashing to show he is overrated. >>
James
<< <i>Another Jeter Man Crush!!! >>
Yeah, markj must really have one - a quick search finds at least 8 threads started by him on Jeter. Again,
James
Now I'm a little jealous too....
<< <i>Then again, it could just be jealousy - after all, as of 2008......Derek Jeter has 6 ex-girlfriends in Maxim's hot 100 list. Jessica Biel, Scarlett Johansson, Mariah Carey, Vanessa Minnillo, Gabrielle Union and Jessica Alba. >>
They left him because he swings a small bat.
James
<< <i>Don't shoot the messenger >>
You're not so much a messenger as you are a broken record - I get it, you and that toolbox Rob Neyer think Jeter is overrated - maybe you could post 100 more links to Neyer's column and someone will care...
<< <i>Don't shoot the messenger. Anyway there are a lot of people other than me who know the Jeter is an awful defensive SS. >>
As if Neyer is so well respected that you feel a need to be a messenger for him LOL
Anyway, there are lots of people who think Jeter has many other great attributes. Anyway, there are lots of people who think Jeter has many other great attributes. Anyway, there are lots of people who think Jeter has many other great attributes. Anyway, there are lots of people who think Jeter has many other great attributes. ............does this sound like a broken record???
(eyeroll)
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>Don't shoot the messenger >>
You're not so much a messenger as you are a broken record - I get it, you and that toolbox Rob Neyer think Jeter is overrated - maybe you could post 100 more links to Neyer's column and someone will care... >>
I do not suppose the fact that you are a Yankee fan prevents you from seeing the obvious reality. If you do not trust Neyer, how about Bill James. He says the same thing, as do BaseballProspectus, baseball-reference.com and STATS Inc. Speaking of tools-how is John Sterling these days?
Please direct me to any analysis that indicates the Jeter is a good defensive SS. Failing that, you can just call me names. The problem you have is that reality is predjudiced against Jeter as a defensive SS.
There is none so blind as he who will not see.
<< <i>I'd rather have the Braves SS (who ever that is)
(eyeroll)
Steve >>
Actually the Braves SS is above average defensively, and is good offensively as well (though not as good as Jeter). Escobar will soon be an overall better SS than Jeter, perhaps as early as next year.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd rather have the Braves SS (who ever that is)
(eyeroll)
Steve >>
Actually the Braves SS is above average defensively, and is good offensively as well (though not as good as Jeter). Escobar will soon be an overall better SS than Jeter, perhaps as early as next year. >>
Getting closer to being true-
bigfische
Collector
Posts: 2279
Joined: Jul 2006
Saturday March 29, 2008 7:04 PM
we'll see.
me thinks you are just a tad over confident.
Yunel will soon be the best ss in the division.
- I took that from a thread before the start of last season. Rollins is about done, Hanley may have to be traded for this to happen though, lol.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
<< <i>
I do not suppose the fact that you are a Yankee fan prevents you from seeing the obvious reality. If you do not trust Neyer, how about Bill James. He says the same thing, as do BaseballProspectus, baseball-reference.com and STATS Inc. Speaking of tools-how is John Sterling these days?
Please direct me to any analysis that indicates the Jeter is a good defensive SS. Failing that, you can just call me names. The problem you have is that reality is predjudiced against Jeter as a defensive SS.
There is none so blind as he who will not see. >>
I dont see anyone saying that Jeter is the best SS in the league. Are you missing the point in that everyone already knows this but yet you toss up thread after thread about Jeter not being the best? So what? Yankees fans are happy with what they have with Jeter.
Just as jlbsquared said, this is just a broken record by you.
No one has provided any statisitical analysis that Jeter is a good defensive SS. I suspect it is because none exists.
<< <i>Sounds more like you are trying to convince YOURSELF of what Jeter is and what he is not. The rest of us already know. >>
The rest of us? Who are the rest of us? Jeter lovers have responded with a lot of name calling and zero facts.
Please direct me to any analysis that indicates the Jeter is a good defensive SS
How about you direct us to one that claims he is so terrible?
Mark, people are jealous of Jeter and all he has done, is he the best SS ever? No he is not.
Is he a legit MLB SS? Yes, to say otherwise shows ignorance.
Even the 30th best SS in baseball is considered good. Now if you want to say, he, In your opinion ranks 30th out
of 30 SS then that is your opinion but please don't insult our intelligence by claiming the guy does not belong in the majors.
Because every time you mount one of these campaigns that is what people think you are implying.
And as for the Braves SS I doubt he will ever achieve what Jeter has.
As for the name calling I did not see any of that.
Steve
<< <i>How about you direct us to one that claims he is so terrible?
>>
Google - Jeter defense
It is my belief that Jeter has an abysmal first step. Truth is though I'm not sure how much it matters. On pop ups he typically has time to get to the ball. In most other cases he can compensate with superior positioning and knowledge of the league.
Additionally as pointed up by most objective writers, his offense is so much superior to most short stops that his defense simply doesn't matter.
I do think the Yanks bungled it when they moved A-Rod to third and didn't transition Jeter to center. I think they potentially could have strengthened three positions defensively after Jeter learned what he was doing out there.
<< <i>The rest of us? Who are the rest of us? Jeter lovers have responded with a lot of name calling and zero facts. >>
The only name calling I see is where I said you sounded like a broken record. Again, a search of "Jeter" on these boards finds 8 really similar sounding threads started by you, most of them linking to Rob Neyer, stuff anyone could find on espn. Sorry, but that's pretty much the definition of sounding like a broken record. The fact is, Jeter has a handful of rings (and Yunel Escobar will never have even 1) and his "horrible defense" seems to get the job done. Despite what the stat nerds say, winning is the only thing that truly matters.
<< <i>BTW, Neyer did not right the article, he just linked to it. >>
BTW, it's "write".
eta: sagard, nice post above me. Thanks for offering an informed, thought-out opinion and not just parroting your favorite stat guy
<< <i>...Despite what the stat nerds say, winning is the only thing that truly matters... >>
I agree and as I alluded to in the above post, the Yanks may have won more since the A-Rod trade with Jeter in center, A-Rod at short, and a $10-$15 third baseman. It seems like the Yanks have been soft up the middle for a few years now.
The Yanks have a great team this year though, as long as they don't have to open with Angel's in the playoffs they are my pick to win the WS.
Then we would have Mark posting how horrible Jeter plays center field.
Steve
<< <i>Jeter to center.
Then we would have Mark posting how horrible Jeter plays center field.
Steve >>
There you go again, attacking me for what I would say in a hypothetical situation. You are either unable or unwilling to put forth any statistical analysis that says Jeter is a good defensive SS. You made deragotory statments about the Braves SS, which are irrelevant. I have not said that Jeter is a bad SS. I had him on my fantasy the day he first appeared in the bigs. He is an easy HOFer, but he is still a lousy defensive SS. See the 2008 Bill James Gold Mine. See either edition of the Fielding Bible. Go to billjamesonline.com (sub. required). BTW, I pointed you to several sources that offer ANALYSIS that he is lousy in the field. You can obfuscate, try to redirect the argument, and do all the name calling you want. What you can not do is offer statistical analysis to show that he is a good fielder. It does not exist.
What difference do the rings make? Is Charlie Silvera one of the great catchers of all time because he has six WS rings? Of course not.
Did Jeter get worse after 2000 when the Yankees quit winning? No.
<< <i>Jeter to center.
Then we would have Mark posting how horrible Jeter plays center field.
Steve >>
The Jeter hater rallies around this over hyped notion that Derek is a bad defensive shortstop because it is the one and only part of his game that may be average to just above average if you dig deep enough for goofball articles and you twist numbers to your liking. It really is pathetic.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>What difference do the rings make? >>
I'd say that too if I was a Braves fan.
<< <i>
<< <i>Jeter to center.
Then we would have Mark posting how horrible Jeter plays center field.
Steve >>
The Jeter hater rallies around this over hyped notion that Derek is a bad defensive shortstop because it is the one and only part of his game that may be average to just above average if you dig deep enough for goofball articles and you twist numbers to your liking. It really is pathetic. >>
Again, there is no evidence. I am not a Jeter hater. I wish he had been a Brave. That said I do not worship at his feet, and I recognize his limitations. Where is the evidence that he is average to above average as a SS?
<< <i>
<< <i>What difference do the rings make? >>
I'd say that too if I was a Braves fan. >>
Let me clarify. It is possible to be a lousy ballplayer and win a lot of rings. Jeter is a great ballplayer, but not because of the rings. He would still be a great ballplayer if he had zero rings. Ernie Banks was great, but has no rings. Ted Williams had no rings. You can be great and have no rings, you can be a journeyman and have one or more. Stuff happens.
Luc Longley won three NBA championships; Sir Charles won none. Which was the better player? Jeter contributed to the titles, but so did 24 other guys.
<< <i>Jeter is a great ballplayer, >>
Cool. Agree to agree - now maybe that could be the topic of your next 8 Jeter threads?
No name calling from here and Im not getting into a statistical debate as we've seen it all on these boards about Jeter. Sounds like a bunch of whining mumbo jumbo at this point.
<< <i>This is exactly what mark wants....a debate on Jeter's ability. Stupid to continue this beaten dead horse. Again, Yankees fans are for the most part perfectly happy having Jeter right where he is. There is little doubt that Jeter will not end his career at SS.
No name calling from here and Im not getting into a statistical debate as we've seen it all on these boards about Jeter. Sounds like a bunch of whining mumbo jumbo at this point. >>
3,000 plus hits and probably MANY more, a GREAT baserunner, a bonafide team leader, a superb post season performer with the bat and in the field, combined with the fact that he NEVER has been a liability at SS regardless of the detractors who want to boil Jeter's career down to just defensive stats versus the rest of MLB's shortstops will in the end render these voices MUTE.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i>This is exactly what mark wants....a debate on Jeter's ability. Stupid to continue this beaten dead horse. Again, Yankees fans are for the most part perfectly happy having Jeter right where he is. There is little doubt that Jeter will not end his career at SS.
No name calling from here and Im not getting into a statistical debate as we've seen it all on these boards about Jeter. Sounds like a bunch of whining mumbo jumbo at this point. >>
3,000 plus hits and probably MANY more, a GREAT baserunner, a bonafide team leader, a superb post season performer with the bat and in the field, combined with the fact that he NEVER has been a liability at SS regardless of the detractors who want to boil Jeter's career down to just defensive stats versus the rest of MLB's shortstops will in the end render these voices MUTE. >>
Yet another voice singing his defensive prowess with squadoosh to support it. Where are the FACTS that show Jeter is a good defensive SS? Is that question so difficult to understand? It must be as no one is attempting to answer it. Everyone has an opinion, but no one has any facts.
The FACT is that Jeter is still playing more than a decade later and is still near the top of his game. His defense isn't that of Vizquel, but then neither was Tejada or Ripken. But Jeter has proven to be a winner. He doesn't make the highlight plays, but then again, I recall him diving face first into the stands to stab a foul pop against the Red Sox. I recall him being in position to make a flip to Posada to save a playoff game against the A's. I recall him firing a strike to nail Timo Perez at the plate in the World Series. There are many key plays he's made in critical situations. A great defensive shortstop? Not by definition, but he makes the plays he needs to make and seems to find a way to be in the right place at the right time and he's been doing in day in and day out for nearly 14 seasons.
He'll surpass 3000 hits before he's through and will become the first Yankees player in their history to do that. Ruth didn't. Gehrig didn't. DiMaggio didn't. Mantle didn't.
Is Jeter the best player to ever put on a uniform? Heck no, but I'd take him on my team any day.
Jeter is what every manager wants on their team. He's a GAMER!!! You can have the flash, the pizzaz, the outrageous stats. I'll take a team of GAMERS every day of the week!
<< <i>Yet another voice singing his defensive prowess with squadoosh to support it. Where are the FACTS that show Jeter is a good defensive SS? Is that question so difficult to understand? It must be as no one is attempting to answer it. Everyone has an opinion, but no one has any facts. >>
Jeter’s strength, according to James’s system, is his ability to cleanly field balls he reaches. He led all shortstops last year with just 17 defensive misplays in 1,259 innings at short. Even when you count errors — which James claims were not counted in Defensive Misplays, so there’s no doubling up — Jeter comes out as the best shortstop in the majors.
<< <i>another fact - I just saw, with my own two eyes, Jeter make two stellar defensive plays to secure yet another win... >>
They were two excellent plays with a hell of alot of range. One on a well hit ball to his glove side and another on a looper that the caught well out into left field. I wonder when the sector of dopey Jeter haters will get their faces out of stat sheets and watch the game.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
Yet another voice singing his defensive prowess with squadoosh to support it. Where are the FACTS that show Jeter is a good defensive SS? Is that question so difficult to understand? It must be as no one is attempting to answer it. Everyone has an opinion, but no one has any facts. >>
Watch the games grasshopper. Perhaps you would not come off as such a half wit. Stop being such a stat geek, and a bad one at that, and actually watch the BALLPLAYER PLAY. What a concept huh?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i>Yet another voice singing his defensive prowess with squadoosh to support it. Where are the FACTS that show Jeter is a good defensive SS? Is that question so difficult to understand? It must be as no one is attempting to answer it. Everyone has an opinion, but no one has any facts. >>
Jeter’s strength, according to James’s system, is his ability to cleanly field balls he reaches. He led all shortstops last year with just 17 defensive misplays in 1,259 innings at short. Even when you count errors — which James claims were not counted in Defensive Misplays, so there’s no doubling up — Jeter comes out as the best shortstop in the majors. >>
Here is Bill James' ranking of Jeter: The last five years he has ranked 32, 34, 34, 34, and 31. He is up to 14 this year. Tell me again how the Bill James system has him as the best defensive SS in baseball. At least you made an attempt.
Shortstop
GROUND DP PLUS/MINUS
GIDP Runs Outs To His Straight To His Runs
Year Team Inn Opps GIDP Pct Saved Rank Made Right On Left GB Air Total Saved Rank
2004 NYY 1341.2 146 85 .582 0 12 456 -24 +5 -5 -25 +9 -16 -12 32
2005 NYY 1352.2 156 84 .538 -2 31 526 -18 +3 -25 -39 +5 -34 -26 34
2006 NYY 1292.1 131 75 .573 -1 27 450 -10 +1 -10 -19 -3 -22 -17 34
2007 NYY 1318.1 152 98 .645 3 2 420 -14 -6 -14 -33 -1 -34 -26 34
2008 NYY 1258.2 106 58 .547 -1 24 430 -18 +9 -1 -10 -1 -11 -8 31
2009 NYY 722.2 75 37 .493 -2 35 235 +1 +5 -2 +4 0 +4 3 14
<< <i>
<< <i>
Yet another voice singing his defensive prowess with squadoosh to support it. Where are the FACTS that show Jeter is a good defensive SS? Is that question so difficult to understand? It must be as no one is attempting to answer it. Everyone has an opinion, but no one has any facts. >>
Watch the games grasshopper. Perhaps you would not come off as such a half wit. Stop being such a stat geek, and a bad one at that, and actually watch the BALLPLAYER PLAY. What a concept huh?
I have watched 1000s of games on TV and hundreds in person. I look at all the facts and study the game. I am aware that all teams have a SS, not just the Yankees. All are marvelous athletes, and almost all of them are better defensively than Jeter. I am not blinded by being such a homer that I think my guy must be the best.
Why am I a bad stats geek? Let me guess-it's because you do not like what the stats say.
Who the heck is touting Jeter as the "best" SS in the game? You can't possibly be as dumb as you look on a computer screen. Perhaps you are. One thing I do know FOR A FACT .... is that you spend 99% of your time with your nose in stats then you do watching the game. Naive and young ones tend to do that. If you are not young then you are just plain ol stupid
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>another fact - I just saw, with my own two eyes, Jeter make two stellar defensive plays to secure yet another win... >>
Gee whiz, let's throw out 14 years of statistics because Jeter made two nice plays. No other SS has ever made nice plays so Jetes must be the best. In God we trust, every one else must be verified. You have given me absolutely nothing other than opinion and insult. When you have no facts on your side, make an ad hominem attack.
<< <i>
I have watched 1000s of games on TV and hundreds in person. I look at all the facts and study the game. I am aware that all teams have a SS, not just the Yankees. All are marvelous athletes, and almost all of them are better defensively than Jeter. I am not blinded by being such a homer that I think my guy must be the best.
Why am I a bad stats geek? Let me guess-it's because you do not like what the stats say. >>
I guess this clown IS that stupid
listen little boy mark, you don't have to LIE that you have watched "1000s" of games on the boob tube. You don't have to tell tall stories about "studying" the game. As much as you cry your 15 year old eyes out about Yankee fans being homers, you are simply a hater in the same level. Nothing more and nothing less. Please don't insult this boards intelligence and try and come off as a "student" of the game.
You are a Yankee hater just the same as a Yankee fan is a Yankee fan. If you are blind enough to continue to bash a guy who will more then likely wind up in the top five all time hit leaders who plays a STEADY SS then their is no use debating with your dense head.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>You have given me absolutely nothing other than opinion and insult >>
Where did I insult you again?