Sold a mint card on ebay and now buyer wants a refund.

Allen

I sold a new pack pulled card on ebay for $40. Ship it fast and in a one touch magnetic with the arrowhead corners. The buyer sends me this message today.

"Your auction didn't mention that the left lower corner was bent(chipped) do you take returns? thanks ruben"

I am looking at the scan and it is a new black border card with no signs of damage at all. I also state no returns as my return policy now since ebay makes you state one. So do I smile and give the guy his money back? I am thinking if there is any chipped corner it would almost have to happen by his own clumsy hand. So do I end up with a damaged card that I cannot sell again or do I risk the negative feedback? I would not be so annoyed if it was not for the fact that I know the card was mint and that in the holder it was in there was no damage done during transit.

MULLINS5

Give the person the refund only because if you do not, and he makes a paypal claim, he's going to get his money back anyway...even if your listing clearly states "no returns"

eBay, in their effort to get rid of fraudulent sellers, has created fraudulent buyers. Scammers will always be lurking.


Patrick

SDavid

Is it a 2009 issue? Any chance of getting a replacement card?

lawnmowerman

Is the card serial #'d? If not, he may be playing the switch game on you. Not much you can do though.

EagleEyeKid

What's the point of putting something in the return policy?
No return means nothing.

PoppaJ

Hi Allen,

Sorry to hear about the card!

It has helped me in the past by simply calling the New eBay Resolution Center @ 1-866-643-3720.

Explain what happened, just like you did here, and all your questions will be answered.

You might want to use Toolhaus to see if the buyer has a fraudulent history of this type.

Good luck and hope everything works out for you,

PoppaJ

p.s. Ruben's comment "Your auction didn't mention that the left lower corner was bent(chipped) do you take returns? thanks ruben" doesn't sit well with me for some reason. It's just the way he said it. Sounds too sarcastic!

Allen

EagleEye, a new ebay policy will not allow you to list an item without specifying a return policy. No returns is one of the options you can specify.

EagleEyeKid

I understand that no return is one of the option, but it's lame.
It's irrelevant. In the end, you will be accepting returns and providing
a refund after they file a claim. What I meant to say earlier is that "no return"
shouldn't even be in there.

SDavid

It's probably still relevant for sellers who have merchant accounts and don't accept paypal.

otwcards

The "No Return" policy DOES apply to select items. With respect to our hobby, third party graded cards meet the criteria for "No Returns." Ungraded or raw cards AND unopened material DO NOT fit the criteria regardless of any disclaimer the seller may put in the auction. This fact should help those buying unopened and finding that the material has been tampered with (assuming that the buyer does not open the material).

With regard to the OP's situation, a refund is in order regardless of the disclaimer and regardless of the buyer's feedback history. This is just the way it is on eBay and with the acceptance (reluctantly in most cases) of payments made through PayPal.

WinPitcher

If that is the case then why not make the buyer work for his refund?

make him file and go through all the hoops then.


Steve

swartz1

throw up the link and let the members see the corner for an unbiased opinion... maybe you are missing something...

storm888

<< <i>If that is the case then why not make the buyer work for his refund?

make him file and go through all the hoops then.

Steve >>



//////////////////////

Prolly best.

Sometimes, sellers can win SNAD-claims on raw items,
but it is usually more work than it is worth.

I suspect that the "buyer" is into the switcheroo, based
on the OP's report of packing details.

..................


Nonsense that might deter an amateur thief.......



Dear Buyer:

If the card is damaged, it could only have happened
in one of two ways:

1. Damage after the card was removed from the professionally
packaged holder.

2. Damage by the postal service during transit.

If you have a good-faith belief that the card was damaged
in transit, I will galdly file an insurance claim. If I do that,
I will expect you to cooperate with the claim investigators.

Thank you.

seller


The guy will either vanish or file a PP-SNAD.

///////////////////////


ecrater.com

is a MUCH safer venue for sellers. It is NOT much cheaper,
because you have to buy adwords to make it work well.
BUT, "buyers" cannot pull the kind of carp they do on EBAY.

elsnorto

eBay sellers have little recourse available to them these days. You can say "no returns" all you would like, but if they pay and file a claim with Paypal, your stated policy means virtually nothing.

It's eBay's sandbox unfortunately.

Best to "cheerfully" provide a refund and move on... might even result in a positive feedback instead of a negative. There is nothing gained by playing hardball with this buyer when eBay has given them ALL the leverage.

Have you considered offering a partial refund and just being done with it all together?

Snorto~

wrestlingcardking

you could have put a tamper proof seal on the card......one consideration for the future.

storm888

<< <i>you could have put a tamper proof seal on the card......one consideration for the future. >>



//////////////////

It is a worthwhile thing to do, but it does not "guarantee" that the seller will
defeat a bogus SNAD-claim.

JackWESQ

A quick and somewhat related question.

To what extent, if any, can a "minimalist description" help you defeat a SNAD claim? For example, what if your item title was "Hank Aaron Baseball Card" and the item description only stated, "You are bidding on a Hank Aaron baseball card." I'd imagine it would be difficult to argue that the item is NOT SIGNIFICANTLY as described (as long as the card pictured, if any, is what is delivered.)

For myself and in practice, I go with a very basic description; essentially what is printed on the PSA label, to wit:

Title: "1981 81 Topps Joe Montana PSA 9 MINT # 216"

Description: "You are bidding on a 1981 81 Topps Joe Montana PSA 9 MINT # 216." Nothing more and nothing less. And if the card is raw, then I would state, "You are bidding on a 1981 81 Topps Joe Montana # 216." And from there I go into my spiel about S/H, Paypal, etc.

I've never had someone file a SNAD claim against me, but I wonder if such a description (or something similar) could assist in defeating a SNAD claim.

/s/ JackWESQ

storm888

<< <i>A quick and somewhat related question............

To what extent, if any, can a "minimalist description" help you defeat a SNAD claim?..........
/s/ JackWESQ >>



///////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////

As can be seen by the "definitions" that are part of the PayPal UA,
the key to defeating an unjustified SNAD-claim rests in "words."

The words used in your listing, AND the words used to state your
defense in the dispute/claim will help win/lose any claim.

Vagueness in a description, by itself, would NOT create a viable defense,
IF it was found to be intended to deliberately mislead a buyer. (The mere
raising of that issue by a buyer, can tip the scale in favor of the buyer.)
While simple is good, it is not a license to steal from idiots.

Accuracy - and disclosure - in a description is usually the best defense
to an unwarranted SNAD-claim.

For our purposes - in collectibles - any language used as a modifier
to describe the condition of a non-TPGd item, would be held against
the seller, in general.

"Not bad," "nice shape," and similar phrases will be held against the
seller, if the buyer claims/shows a condition to the contrary.

Usually, a seller can win if he knows how to make his position FIT
the definitions in the UA. However, the same can be said about a
slick/crooked/smart buyer.

Sadly, the fact that either party "might win" is, in part, what allows
PP to continue to get away with their nonsense.

..........

There is something very wrong with a commerce system that requires
this level of sophistication to operate. A studied person can prevail
on either side of ANY given complaint; that makes the system dangerous
for all but the slickest of participants.

It is "morally wrong" that by merely knowing what the correct answers are - and
how to phrase those answers - folks that study the "rules" can prevail in their
claims/defenses...... NO MATTER what the truth of the matter is.

Somehow, I doubt that Pierre had all this stuff in mind when he started EBAY
as a venue on which his gf could sell her PEZ dispensers.

...........


13.7 SNAD Definition

What is Significantly Not as Described (SNAD)?

An item is Significantly Not as Described if it is materially different than what the seller described in the item listing. Here are some examples:

•You received a completely different item. Example: You purchased a book and received a DVD or an empty box.

•The condition of the item was misrepresented. Example: The listing said "new" and the item was used.

•The item was advertised as authentic but is not authentic.

•The item is missing major parts or features which were not disclosed in the listing.

•You purchased three items from a seller but only received two.

•The item was damaged during shipment.


An item is not Significantly Not as Described if it is materially similar to the seller’s item listing description. Here are some examples:

•The defect in the item was correctly described by the seller.

•The item was properly described but you didn't want it after you received it.

•The item was properly described but did not meet your expectations.

•The item has minor scratches and was listed as used condition.


/////////////////////////////////////

The PP UA has been officially updated to include the newest method for
crooks to steal designer-fashion items. The scam will soon be used to steal
HIGH VALUE cards and other collectibles.


How is the Claim resolved?

Once a Dispute has been escalated to a Claim, PayPal will make a final decision in favor of the buyer or the seller. You may be asked to provide receipts, third party evaluations,

police reports, or anything else that PayPal specifies. PayPal retains full discretion to make a final decision in favor of the buyer or the seller based on any criteria PayPal deems

appropriate. In the event that PayPal makes a final decision in favor of the buyer or seller, each party must comply with PayPal’s decision. PayPal will generally require the buyer

to ship an item that the buyer claims is Significantly Not as Described back to the seller (at the buyer’s expense), and PayPal will generally require a seller to accept the item

back and refund the buyer the full purchase price plus original shipping costs. In the event a seller loses a Claim, the seller will not receive a refund on his or her PayPal or eBay

fees associated with the transaction. If you lose a Significantly Not as Described Claim because the item you sold is counterfeit, you will be required to provide a full refund to

the buyer AND you will not receive the item back (it will be destroyed).

.....
In PP/EBAY jargon, the word "destroyed" often means
"sent to one of our service partners" AND resold at a profit
in which we share.