Where are all the chopmarks?

tradedollarnut

Just glanced at my set and noticed all the higher pop coins. I've been watching for any to come on the market, but they never seem to be there. Where are they all? Chopmarked Trade Dollar Set

oreville

TDN:

You told me to buy as many as I could.

I did.

Hyperion

some rich knucklehead who can write massive checks probably bought them, and they're sitting in a crusty dusty box, unloved and uncared for.

"Investment"

MsMorrisine

looks like you've got some competition

Hyperion

<< <i>TDN:

You told me to buy as many as I could.

I did. >>



see?

stinkinlincoln

Shameless plug for an amazing collection...




JK about the shameless plug part.


Great coins TDN, that set makes me want to look for some chopmarked trade dollars.


Question for you guys that collect these coins, are there any other denoms that have chopmarks? Or just the Trade dollars?

speety

He just told me to buy all the 1875 philly ones I could... I did!




... I'm still at zero...

stinkinlincoln

<<some rich knucklehead who can write massive checks probably bought them, and they're sitting in a crusty dusty box, unloved and uncared for.

"Investment" >>

I didnt read BlindTiger collects chopmarked T$1's... Is there going to be another thread about why he bought them?

lathmach

Wow, nice set.
I agree though, it sure seems that there were more of these around years ago.
Has anyone researched and published the English interpretation or the Chinese meanings of the different chopmarks.
I'd be cool, to see a chopmark and know that in Chinese it means "Shanghai Lukes Fresh Meat Market" or something like that.
Sorta like the counterstamped U.S. coins.

Ray

pmac

I agree that this is a shameless plug for your spectacular collection, but there is one question that I have. I notice that many of those coins are in MS condition. Isn't this a conundrum, a coin that goes to China for trade, gets a 'chopmark'and somehow gets back here in Mint State condition?

BECOKA

I really like the 1875-S and 1876-S,

So no 1875-P?

Is there any way to see the chop mark subset in the pop reports? Are there any 1875?

ricko

There is one publication on Chopmarks. I have it, but it is still packed from my move across country. I will dig it out and put the title etc on here. Cheers, RickO

relicsncoins

<< <i>I agree that this is a shameless plug for your spectacular collection, but there is one question that I have. I notice that many of those coins are in MS condition. Isn't this a conundrum, a coin that goes to China for trade, gets a 'chopmark'and somehow gets back here in Mint State condition? >>



I was thinking the same thing. Maybe instead of uncircualted or mint state they should say "no wear"

savoyspecial

F.M. Rose authored the only useful (in my opinion) book on the subject of Chopmarks......i know for a fact that it is included in the ANA library holdings because that is where i checked it out

TennesseeDave

Pcgs pop report shows only 3 have been graded for the 1875-P .1 in the vg-vf range and 2 in XF-40.My pop report is over a year old so this info may have changed some.

edited for spelling error.

anablep

I'm amazed that chop marked dollars can be considered MS even though they obviously circulated once they were chop marked.

I assumed AU58 was the highest grade for a chop marked coin.

That set is stunning...

BECOKA

<< <i>I'm amazed that chop marked dollars can be considered MS even though they obviously circulated once they were chop marked.

I assumed AU58 was the highest grade for a chop marked coin.

That set is stunning... >>



It is not necessary to circulate after being chopped, they probably had thousands of stacks of these things and not all of them would go out into peoples pockets. Some would just go from seller to seller in bags or boxes etc....

robkool

I still have mine...

anablep

<< <i>It is not necessary to circulate after being chopped, they probably had thousands of stacks of these things and not all of them would go out into peoples pockets. Some would just go from seller to seller in bags or boxes etc.... >>



I guess what I meant to say was: I thought chopping a coin created a circulated coin. I thought it was no longer MS once chopped, regardless of where it went next...

COALPORTER

"..Some would just go from seller to seller in bags or boxes etc.... "

That counts as circulating, even if the coins were not touched or never saw the light of day.

The only true MS coins must go directly from the mint to the collector.
Anything that goes from the mint - tresurary-bank counts as circulated.

BECOKA

<< <i>"..Some would just go from seller to seller in bags or boxes etc.... "

That counts as circulating, even if the coins were not touched or never saw the light of day.

The only true MS coins must go directly from the mint to the collector.
Anything that goes from the mint - tresurary-bank counts as circulated. >>



So 99% of all Pre-1933 MS coins are not MS? That does not sound right. Banks transfered coins back and forth in bags all the time and the stuff inside is considered by 99+% of collectors as MS if it meets the criteria.

BECOKA

<< <i>

I guess what I meant to say was: I thought chopping a coin created a circulated coin. I thought it was no longer MS once chopped, regardless of where it went next... >>



You are right, technically they should be considered damaged but this was such a common part of commerce that many collectors consider the chop marks as a novelty and they are ignored in the grading process and there is a reason why PCGS boldly states on the slab "Chop Mark" for those that don't agree and they can see the slab insert and move to the next coin.

ricko

Yep... found my book.... it is titled 'CHOPMARKS' BY F.M. Rose.... as far as I know it is the only publication devoted to chopmarks. $20.00 is the price. Cheers, RickO

lcoopie

An interesting subset of trade dollar collecting. Trade dollars were minted with the purpose of exporting silver to China in mind. When received in trade,

Chinese merchants would assay the coins to ensure proper silver content.

They would then affix their mark, or chop, to the coins verifying the value for future acceptance. The majority of chopped trade dollars were eventually shipped to India in trade and melted for their silver.


.....How did they assay the coins to ensure proper silver content???

pmac

<< <i>An interesting subset of trade dollar collecting. Trade dollars were minted with the purpose of exporting silver to China in mind. When received in trade,

Chinese merchants would assay the coins to ensure proper silver content.

They would then affix their mark, or chop, to the coins verifying the value for future acceptance. The majority of chopped trade dollars were eventually shipped to India in trade and melted for their silver.


.....How did they assay the coins to ensure proper silver content??? >>


My guess would be proper weight vs. volume. I have a late 1800s peso from Chile with file markings on the edge that somehow confirmed the silver content.

ColinG

Seated half dollars turn up from time to time as well as other dollar coins [Morgans, Heraldic Eagles, Seated Liberties] but these are FAR rarer. Basically anything that made its way to the Orient got chopped.

ColinG

Besides Rose's book 'Chopmarks' the chopmarked collectors club newsletters are a 'must have' for anyone interested in chopmarked coins. Some can be read on-line from the clubs web site, otherwise, a print copy can be ordered from the past president Mr. Everett Jones. They can be easily found in a Google search.

ColinG

You can but it more cheaply from Scott Semans in Washington directly [see his web site]. It usually goes for $20 on Ebay 'Buy it Now' sellers.

tradedollarnut

Welcome!

TwoSides2aCoin

Chinese numismatists have stronger family ties and that makes stronger bonds. This would probably make stronger hands through the generations of well disciplined and intellectually advanced collectors.
No government will take from the people what is the people's.

(maybe I'm wrong, but that's where I think many of the best specimens remain. In China )

pmac

And if they don't have them, they'll just make them.

ColinG

Thank you! I've often visited Tradenutdollar's home page. You collect Trade $ like you should - chopped and unchopped.

ColinG

Actually I live in Taiwan and have been to the Hong Kong coin show and know several dealers here and the general feeling is that the most serious chopmarked collectors are in the US. Of course there are some serious collectors here too [I'm one of them - I currently only collect chopmarked coins] but surprisingly few local Taipei dealers want anything to do with chopmarked coins.

CaptHenway

I want an 1883 chopmark..........

ColinG

Is there any 'must have' books dealing with the Trade Dollar series? I collect only chopmarked coins [not exclusively T$] but would like to read more on the series.

lkeigwin

Trade dollars are fascinating. Behind them lies a great history, rife with sordid politics and financial manipulation. From the time they were thrust into production by silver mining interests, intended for trade as superior coins -- "420 grains!" -- to Spanish and Mexican alternatives, resented at home by workers who couldn't get full value, and resisted abroad because they really contained less silver due to lower fineness. They were chop-marked in China for authenticity, used in India to buy opium, were legal-tender in the US for a while and then not so. Lordy, what a mess! And all in what...about a dozen years?

Reminds me of politics in the 21st century. I just had to have one.
Lance.