A dilema that I need to seek advice on.
MORGANHUNTER2
Posts: 4,473 ✭
I won a few auctions last night (7) from the ebay, and I read all of the sellers listing in regards to shipping, etc.
I won all the auctions from 1 person. I ask for a combined cost with shipping and seller sends me the total. In his auction he states he charges $1.99 for each additional item won within the same week, etc. 1st item cost to ship- $2.99 and they will send it 1st class mail or priority mail. Well total of shipping comes to $14.93.
In the email to me regarding the shipping costs he states that shipping is not only the cost, but the time and material it takes him to send. ( I am paraphrasing this - but it is what I read). I'm pretty sure that ebay sez- no no to the cost of your time and material part- am I wrong?
I sent the seller a response that a small priority flat rate box costs $4.95 and you can load the crap out of it as long as it does not exceed 4 pounds for international shipping (no this person is stateside) so that has no bearing. I also quoted that a flat rate envelope is the same cost of $4.95, and even if he added a Sig Conf. the total shipping is $7.30.
Was I wrong in asking for a lower rate on the shipping? The total of the items do not amount to more than $62.00 so insuring them is my choice in the matter and it would not be prudent to insure it since the sig conf is his ace in the hole if I were to screw him, which I have never done.
I'm awaiting there reply, but is this wrong of me to ask the seller to recalculate the shipping.
I for the record did place my highest bid on the item, but they did not sell for what should have been reasonable money. The seller did take a whipping on this one unfortunately.
So any advice or comments appreciated.
I won all the auctions from 1 person. I ask for a combined cost with shipping and seller sends me the total. In his auction he states he charges $1.99 for each additional item won within the same week, etc. 1st item cost to ship- $2.99 and they will send it 1st class mail or priority mail. Well total of shipping comes to $14.93.
In the email to me regarding the shipping costs he states that shipping is not only the cost, but the time and material it takes him to send. ( I am paraphrasing this - but it is what I read). I'm pretty sure that ebay sez- no no to the cost of your time and material part- am I wrong?
I sent the seller a response that a small priority flat rate box costs $4.95 and you can load the crap out of it as long as it does not exceed 4 pounds for international shipping (no this person is stateside) so that has no bearing. I also quoted that a flat rate envelope is the same cost of $4.95, and even if he added a Sig Conf. the total shipping is $7.30.
Was I wrong in asking for a lower rate on the shipping? The total of the items do not amount to more than $62.00 so insuring them is my choice in the matter and it would not be prudent to insure it since the sig conf is his ace in the hole if I were to screw him, which I have never done.
I'm awaiting there reply, but is this wrong of me to ask the seller to recalculate the shipping.
I for the record did place my highest bid on the item, but they did not sell for what should have been reasonable money. The seller did take a whipping on this one unfortunately.
So any advice or comments appreciated.
0
Comments
Steve
However, as far as your trying to renegotiate shipping after the fact, that's wrong IMO. You read the auction and saw his terms before you bid, and though I'm sure there will be a host of responses to the contrary saying this guy is a thief, trying to make it back on shipping, etc., my opinion is that by bidding you agreed to his terms of sale... and I think it is unethical to try to renegotiate AFTER you win. The time to talk about a better shipping price was BEFORE you bid. Ebay rules allow for reasonable handling costs as part of shipping by the way, and the numbers quoted don't really seem out of line.
Of course the way ebay works now, sellers have no rights anyway...so he'll likely cave in to your wishes just to save himself a negative.
Edited for typo.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>He is charging you what he said he would. You bid knowing the shipping charges. >>
Yup. He is charging you what was determined before the sale.
If you wanted to see if the seller would do different, you could have asked before you bid.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>As far as him taking a beating, that's the chance he took selling the items so I wouldn't feel guilty about getting a good deal.
However, as far as your trying to renegotiate shipping after the fact, that's wrong IMO. You read the auction and saw his terms before you bid, and though I'm sure there will be a host of responses to the contrary saying this guy is a thief, trying to make it back on shipping, etc., my opinion is that by bidding you agreed to his terms of sale... and I think it is unethical to try to renegotiate AFTER you win. The time to talk about a better shipping price was BEFORE you bid. Ebay rules allow for reasonable handling costs as part of shipping by the way.
Of course the way ebay works now, sellers have no rights anyway...so he'll likely cave in to your wishes just to save himself a negative. >>
Wait a minute- from the sounds of this you get the impression I would neg the guy on his shipping? Never- unless it was outrageous. Lets try this for a moment- say I pay the 14 bucks to have it shipped and then he decides to use the flat rate of $4.95- what would you say or do in that situation?
I have had several people ask me for a shipping discount when they won more than one item- and if it does not require an added cost to ship it in a bulk mailer- hell I'll spare the person the added cost- it is business ethics 101.
and I don't consider it 'caving' for christ sake- it is a simple request of the seller- not trying to force him into anything.
My advice for the future would be to discuss a "super-saver" rate with the seller in advance if you anticipate winning a large number of items. I have done this berfore and the transaction went very smoothly.
Best of luck.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
<< <i>You bid knowing the shipping charges. If I were the seller I would be irritated that you are now trying to negotiate a lower shipping charge. I would also be on alert that you were going to pull something after the coins were shipped.
My advice for the future would be to discuss a "super-saver" rate with the seller in advance if you anticipate winning a large number of items. I have done this berfore and the transaction went very smoothly.
Best of luck.
Lane >>
So you are telling me it was unethical of ME to ask for a reduced shipping rate on the batch that I won after the auction was over, not knowing that I was for sure to win all the items? I see how some of the minds think here truly I do.
I have had only 2 bad experiences on ebay in my entire time that I have been playing that game- none as a seller- y'all can take a look at that, but as a buyer is where I have had the difficulty with the silliness of shipping fees! With the dawn of the internet and the postal service being on line, one just has to point and click and get a lot of useful information- like pricing- hey trust me it works great. Even a few folks here have bought from me and noticed that sometimes I undercharged on the shipping, but I did not tell the person you owe me... It happens from time to time, and normally I am within 3 cents of what I gave as a cost on shipping, so I know I'm not making money for the delivery of the item.
Amazing minds, I love it..keep them coming..
<< <i>Wait a minute- from the sounds of this you get the impression I would neg the guy on his shipping? Never- unless it was outrageous. Lets try this for a moment- say I pay the 14 bucks to have it shipped and then he decides to use the flat rate of $4.95- what would you say or do in that situation? >>
I'd say you agreed to the terms and it's wrong to try to change them. If you feel his shipping costs were too high there is a way to say that in feedback.
It really irks me when customers do stuff like this. If you don't like the terms don't bid/buy!
Lance.
<< <i>
<< <i>He is charging you what he said he would. You bid knowing the shipping charges. >>
Yup. He is charging you what was determined before the sale.
If you wanted to see if the seller would do different, you could have asked before you bid. >>
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
And, it sounds like you will be. You're one of the good guys.
peacockcoins
John
No offense intended. Just stating my viewpoint.
To answer the OP's question; no, you certainly were not 'wrong' to ask the seller to recalculate. Communication is key and a seller has to be ready to answer all kinds of questions on ebay.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
I have had several people ask me for a shipping discount when they won more than one item- and if it does not require an added cost to ship it in a bulk mailer- hell I'll spare the person the added cost- it is business ethics 101.
and I don't consider it 'caving' for christ sake- it is a simple request of the seller- not trying to force him into anything."
Not once in my post did I say you were intending to neg him... I was looking at it from the seller's POV. He doesn't know that, and as others have stated he's now likely miffed you are trying to renegotiate after the fact... I know I would be...and knowing ebay's anti-seller stance in most things, my surmise is that he will be thinking that to forestall a potential neg or some other hassle, he'll probably accede to your wishes.
Speaking personally, we don't charge anything more than the actual USPS costs, and we combine shipping in a similar manner to what you stated, putting them all into one box, etc....and I personally don't like sellers who want to be paid for everything down to the last paper clip...but that's me, and different sellers have different policies. Like this one, for instance.
Bottom line, you bid, you won, you agreed to his terms in so doing, so man up and honor your commitment. THAT is business ethics 101.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Additionally, as long as the combined rates, which he states within his auctions, are correct, you really have no business telling him what YOU could ship them for. Its obvious that $1.99 is NOT what it costs to through another itenm in the shipping container but you did agree on his terms.
I'd just let it go and ask him ahead of time before you bid the next time.
The name is LEE!
And yet you feel the need to beat him up an additional $5 on shipping?
Hoard the keys.
He did state the terms of sale and shipping costs, so if I was the winner, I would abide by his terms. I might email the seller after receiving the coins and tell him he lost a customer, but it is his business.
I know that I charge 2.75 + .75 for each additional coin and have had a couple buyers tell me I charged to much.
I always think it is funny that no one ever complains about the shipping costs that the grading companies charge?
<< <i> - say I pay the 14 bucks to have it shipped and then he decides to use the flat rate of $4.95- what would you say or do in that situation? >>
Nothing except star position 3 simply because his rates would then appear neither reasonable nor unreasonable. Better yet, use a 2 if you felt his rates were unreasonable but for sure the shipping would not warrant a 4 (reasonable) nor 5 (very reasonable).
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>You bid knowing the shipping charges. If I were the seller I would be irritated that you are now trying to negotiate a lower shipping charge. I would also be on alert that you were going to pull something after the coins were shipped.
My advice for the future would be to discuss a "super-saver" rate with the seller in advance if you anticipate winning a large number of items. I have done this berfore and the transaction went very smoothly.
Best of luck.
Lane >>
So you are telling me it was unethical of ME to ask for a reduced shipping rate on the batch that I won after the auction was over, not knowing that I was for sure to win all the items? I see how some of the minds think here truly I do.
I have had only 2 bad experiences on ebay in my entire time that I have been playing that game- none as a seller- y'all can take a look at that, but as a buyer is where I have had the difficulty with the silliness of shipping fees! With the dawn of the internet and the postal service being on line, one just has to point and click and get a lot of useful information- like pricing- hey trust me it works great. Even a few folks here have bought from me and noticed that sometimes I undercharged on the shipping, but I did not tell the person you owe me... It happens from time to time, and normally I am within 3 cents of what I gave as a cost on shipping, so I know I'm not making money for the delivery of the item.
Amazing minds, I love it..keep them coming.. >>
Wow...you ask for advice and then lash out when you get advice you don't like. I never used the word "unethical," you did. Having a bad day?
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>So you are telling me it was unethical of ME to ask for a reduced shipping rate on the batch that I won after the auction was over, not knowing that I was for sure to win all the items? >>
Not from my standpoint! There is nothing wrong in asking or even suggesting but the best way would have been to ask ahead of time. If the seller agrees then great, if not then just accept it and address the issue from a seller rating if the shipping charged is not reasonable.
The name is LEE!
As far as insurance goes, it's been proven many times on this forum that insurance protects the seller not the buyer. Insurance is necessary and leaving it out of any calculations is silly.
Excessive Shipping Charges Policy
When listing an item using eBay’s shipping calculator, or specifying a shipping cost in categories for which eBay does not set maximum shipping and handling charges, sellers may charge reasonable shipping and handling fees to cover the costs of mailing, packaging, and handling. eBay will rely on member reports and its own discretion to determine whether or not a seller’s shipping, handling, packaging, and/or insurance charges are excessive. Shipping and handling fees may not be listed as a percentage of the final sale price.
Shipping and handling charges may include:
*
Actual Shipping cost: This is the actual cost paid to the carrier (i.e. postage) for shipping the item.
*
Handling Fee: Actual packaging material costs may be charged. A handling fee in addition to actual shipping cost may be charged if it is not excessive. THIS IS A NO BRAINER.
Insurance: Sellers may offer buyers insurance and extra services provided through the carrier at actual cost. These services include, but are not limited to: Certificate of Mailing, Certified Mail, Collect on Delivery, Delivery Confirmation, Insured Mail, Registered Mail, Restricted Delivery, Return Receipt, Signature Confirmation and Special Handling.
Charges not allowed in Shipping & Handling:
*
Tax: Only actual applicable federal, state, country, city, VAT, and equivalent taxes may be charged.
*
Additional insurance protection: No additional amount such as “self insurance” may be added. Sellers who do not use a licensed 3rd party insurance company may not require buyers to purchase insurance. This is a violation of state law.
*
Tariffs and duties: For cross border transactions, sellers may not collect tariffs and duties. However, buyer may be responsible for actual tariffs and duties as required by country laws.
*
Fees related to Shipping & Handling: Gasoline, mileage, time spent at a carrier, time spent packaging the item, eBay and PayPal fees may not be added. THIS WAS STATED TO ME IN HIS EMAIL PREVIOUS TO MY REQUEST.
Categories with maximum shipping charges:
In some categories, eBay sets maximum shipping and handling charges. When listing in these categories, the only time when sellers are allowed to charge more than the maximum is when using the shipping calculator to set the actual size and weight of the item, including packing materials. When using the shipping calculator, sellers should make sure the calculated cost isn’t higher than the actual shipping cost or it will be considered excessive shipping.
Free shipping:
Sellers may offer free shipping to select or all destinations. For a destination denoted as free shipping, no others fees related to shipping, handling, or packaging may be charged.
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
*
Listing cancellation
*
Limits on account privileges
*
Account suspension
*
Forfeiture of eBay fees on cancelled listings
*
Loss of PowerSeller status
NOTE: I didn't make up the rules, but if a seller tells me that he includes his gas and time in the handling costs to ship one package- then he has yet to look at how he conducts his program.
I will be more than happy to pay his full price of shipping- but IF he pulls the scenario that I stated earlier- then I will be PO'd. The small flat rate box is FREE, the costs to pack can be old newspaper for all I care- that is FREE (actually he would have had to pay .50 to read the paper).
and to think- I could in essence charge for all the bubble wrap and the time to go get supplies and gas etc... and just ad it to my 'handling' fee.
<< <i> (whom you hounding) >>
Huh?
I'd equate that to "communicating".
<< <i>I always think it is funny that no one ever complains about the shipping costs that the grading companies charge? >>
Do a forum search. Thats probably one of the biggest complaints.
The name is LEE!
The seller has met his original terms. Now it's up to the buyer to abide by that contract. If I rip a seller on an item that they somehow let go too cheap, I don't bad mouth them for not supplying free shipping or having the lot encased in a custom made $5 capital holder. When you get a good deal, accept it rather than nibble for more.
roadrunner
and she is visiting for the 4th . The seller realizes you ( the buyer) is his sisters neighbor ,
and asks her to take your package with her back home . She hand delivers it the next day with no
refund on shipping . Do you feel you are entitled to a refund ? Is it Your great fortune that it's a small
world ? ............. You (the buyer) entered into a contract for X + Y = total price . The seller's obligation
is to deliver merchandise to you that is as stated in said contract . In this case as stated above
it would be the seller's great fortune that his sister is your neighbor , case closed..........................
Dan
Wow...you ask for advice and then lash out when you get advice you don't like. I never used the word "unethical," you did. Having a bad day?
Lane >>
No I don't think I'm having a bad day, and I don't see it as 'lashing' out at the comments. What I'm seeing is folks that view things only in black and white, no shade of gray. 1- it never hurts to ask about a discount on an item (it seems to be the new wave in the stores now), nor does it hurt to ask for a discount on shipping as in an alternative fashion- if he says no- not a problem, I'll pay it, move on and look elsewhere- there are plenty of you sellers out there that get slightly ripped once in awhile (and some of you come here and complain about it).
we all have at some point done exactly what I have done- placed bids on several items from one person, not knowing fi you are going to win all or none or some, and we all see the shipping costs etc., it still does not hurt to ask.
I hit R&I (Tomaska) back a few weeks ago on 4 items- low cost on the bids won, they shipped all four items for the price of one, and when I got the package- it showed that he actually paid a bit more to ship than what I had paid, and that was the second time I have bought from him, will I go back- you bet I will.
If you want a repeat customer- don't gouge him on something so trivial as shipping, when in doubt always ask, all they can say is sorry can't do it this time.
and I'm not trying to put words in folks head ie- unethical, lashing, etc.
<< <i>Lets say it's a small world . It turns out your neighbor is this guys sister ,
and she is visiting for the 4th . The seller realizes you ( the buyer) is his sisters neighbor ,
and asks her to take your package with her back home . She hand delivers it the next day with no
refund on shipping . Do you feel you are entitled to a refund ? Is it Your great fortune that it's a small
world ? ............. You (the buyer) entered into a contract for X + Y = total price . The seller's obligation
is to deliver merchandise to you that is as stated in said contract . In this case as stated above
it would be the seller's great fortune that his sister is your neighbor , case closed..........................
Dan >>
This might get poofed- but here goes..
Can I do the sister if she is cute? If so I'll buy from that seller everyday and not complain...
Dan >>
This might get poofed- but here goes..
Can I do the sister if she is cute? If so I'll buy from that seller everyday and not complain... >>
If you marry the sister you might get a lot of FREE coins!
edit for typo
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Look at the bright side, I doubt he will ignore you for over a month and not ship the things
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>There's another way to put it: I once "ripped" a great variety at a super price, that was 25 cents into the next higher insurance rate. Well I asked for a new invoice, requesting it be insured at the lower rate and the seller refused. I hounded him, explaining to him that it didn't make any sense, it spend $1.25 for the 25 cents worth of product; he responded that it was HIS auction, and I had bid under HIS terms.... Yeah I paid the extra $$, received the piece and ended up being blocked.... >>
You "ripped a great variety at a super price" and burned your bridge at the same time ??
This is information I would keep to myself ................................
Dan
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
So your definition of a really good seller is one where you can rip the item, and then get it shipped to you at less than his cost... and since R&I messed up and did that once, seems you evidently expect it from others as well. Good to know.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
This is information I would keep to myself "
Yeah Dan, that was the point; "don't burn your bridges".... It was over 5 years ago, but I remember the lesson well.
No big deal, as I should have made prior inquiry as to combined shipping. Lesson learned.
many sellers broadcast low value items understanding the only way they will make any money is with shipping
<< <i>"I hit R&I (Tomaska) back a few weeks ago on 4 items- low cost on the bids won, they shipped all four items for the price of one, and when I got the package- it showed that he actually paid a bit more to ship than what I had paid, and that was the second time I have bought from him, will I go back- you bet I will."
So your definition of a really good seller is one where you can rip the item, and then get it shipped to you at less than his cost... and since R&I messed up and did that once, seems you evidently expect it from others as well. Good to know. >>
Hmmm, had to think this one through for a moment. if the item won was sadly low and no bidders then that to me is not a rip, that may be considered to be a rip, but maybe the market is waning. As for the getting it shipped for less than what it cost and expecting it from others- I believe you are reading more into what I said than what I wrote, so in essence NO I do not 'expect it to happen with every seller.
I can not help it if the item listed did not sell for moon money, my gain- sure, but would I consider myself lucky in this situation- yes. As I said- if he says no to my request he gets his money no matter what, and I move on. if he waxes me on the cost of shipping it will tell in the stars and the comment section ( I did win 7 in all).
I am not being unreasonable here by any means- I'm like a lot of coin collectors- cheap.
and Bochiman- you are a bad man- bad- shame on you....
Well, I most certainly dispute the "a lot" part; based on my experiences over the last quarter century as a dealer I would think "some" is a more accurate descriptor, thank goodness. But kudos for at least admitting what I suspected was the truth behind the original post from the get go. You're cheap. It wasn't enough that you got a good deal; you also want to chisel down the stated shipping that you already agreed to by bidding... and what's worse, you see nothing wrong in doing so, and that's sad. Plus, if things don't go your way you may not neg him but you'll certainly ding him on stars, which is as bad because DSRs affect things such as auction search placements. No offense, but buyers who can't grasp the concept of "ask before you bid"... I personally don't need or want. Welcome to my BBL.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>If he waxes me on the cost of shipping it will tell in the stars and the comment section ( I did win 7 in all).
>>
You're not gonna hit him for overpriced shipping when you read his terms ahead of time.
He's doing nothing wrong and yet you'll do that. Doesn't say much for you.
<< <i>
<< <i>If he waxes me on the cost of shipping it will tell in the stars and the comment section ( I did win 7 in all).
>>
You're not gonna hit him for overpriced shipping when you read his terms ahead of time.
He's doing nothing wrong and yet you'll do that. Doesn't say much for you. >>
---------
<< <i>The seller clearly stated his fees and you agreed to them by bidding. You have no grounds for complaint. >>
A lot of whining going on for which you agreed to b4 making the purchase. I have asked prior to the auctions ending. Asking for a reduction after is fine, but holding the terms to which one agreed to against him is a poor reflection on this buyer.
I have seen you on these boards and we seem to agree on most discussion topics here on the forum. But you are asking for input so here is mine:
I must start with one point of clarification. If I understand you correctly the seller is already taking a "beating" on the coin. I don’t know if this includes eBay/other listing costs, PayPal fees etc?
In addition, I believe you mentioned that EBAY says or at the very least discourages any charges outside of actual postage costs. So, in light of that fact/belief you have sent him an email requesting he reduce his shipping charges to reflect the actual postage charges only. You sent this email because according to your understanding of eBay policy, the seller must pay for the cost of shipping materials and all other extenuating costs (Gas, Travel Time, Packaging Time etc) relative to sending out eBay package winnings.
With that said here are my direct comments regarding the situation:
First, I think you were out of line. (Auction clearly stated the shipping costs and you are trying to renegotiate after the fact).
Second, My personal shipping costs are fair in the "real world" but high in the "eBay world" but I have never had anyone try to renegotiate shipping.
Third, as an eBay seller, I do everything I can to make my customers happy. If you sent me an email and pointed this out, I would drop my costs to what you requested with a smile because I try to maintain a high level of customer service and transactional satisfaction. In addition, I want all my clients to walk away satisfied with the "purchase experience" they had with my "company".
Fourth, although I want all of my customers to have a great buying experience with my “company”, I also want to develop long-term relationships with collectors that are mutually beneficial to both parties. Therefore, in the future I would attempt to stay clear of conducting business with you as a buyer or a seller. JMHO.
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."