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Thinking about bidding on this raw 21D Merc. Is the obverse hair tooled?

FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
This date is needed for my raw set and does not show up very often. This one looks like it might fit nicely into the set. Do you think its worth bidding eight hundred to one thousand for this coin that is on Ebay? Thanks in advance for your opinion.

imageimage

I think I will put this picture of a well struck early date merc in here just for the heck of it.

image

Ken

Comments

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's about ten times what I paid for a raw piece. Then again, the one you're entertaining is 90 times better than mine. image
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It looks like raw coin. That's always risky on eBay.

    It could grade anywhere from AU-55 if there is a rub on the cheek to a low MS grade like 62 or 63.

    I'd be reluctant to bid a lot on a raw coin. I'd also want to know something about the seller.

    Gray sheet bid ranges from $775 in AU to $1,000 in MS-60. The split bans also might get some bidders turned on.

    This is the type coin that really needs to be certified before it is sold.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "It looks like raw coin. That's always risky on eBay."

    Sound advice on this coin I believe. It is raw with a Buy It Now for $1450.

    Ken
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would pm the seller and ask if he/she would guarantee it to grade genuine(can't expect them to guarantee a numbered grade) If not, then no bid and if yes, then bid away if the seller is reputable.
    Jim

    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • shottakershottaker Posts: 309
    Obverse looks whizzed. Notice the yellow tinge compared with the nice reverse. The divots in the cheeks seem like rounded craters which with the fairly uniform luster make me think somethings up.

    Read more of the origin of this coin and would probably shy away after reading in the auction the original seller of this item. Lot of problem stuff goes through there and the owner of a secondary tpgs.


    BTW nice 1920 merc Looks 64 or better after deciphering the little 2x2 paper bits from the cello. Probably a raw 65 + coin with wonderful color.
  • ajmanajman Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭
    Anytime you're dealing with a raw key date coin especially on eBay, makes one a little leary. I think I would wait for a pcgs or ngc graded example.
    Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
  • shottakershottaker Posts: 309
    Major problem with fleabay is that so many underground troglodyte sellers hyped and overgraded raw material that they made it a puppy mill for problem coins. Sad but true if I sell a common unc widget morgan or something of that order I get more money calling it high grade or not grading at all then if I call it correctly as choice bu or bu or whatever the case may be.
  • abitofthisabitofthatabitofthisabitofthat Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭
    Pass on it. It is a cleaned AU, worth (IMHO) about a third of their BIN price.

    merse

  • kazkaz Posts: 9,209 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I also think it looks cleaned, possibly something else done to the surfaces. Personally, I think it's too risky to buy raw, key-date coins on eBay. The chances of your being satisfied with the transaction are pretty low, imo.
  • droopyddroopyd Posts: 5,381 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It is a cleaned AU. >>



    image
    Me at the Springfield coin show:
    image
    60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
  • JCMhoustonJCMhouston Posts: 5,306 ✭✭✭
    The reverse looks ok, the obverse looks like a problem coin to me.
    JCM-Houston
    World Collection
    British Collection
    German States Collection
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ken, it could be the pic, but I don't like it. I would wait on a nice one. A 21-D is not hard to find, just expensive.

    JMHO
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey are you guys being truthful with me?...image

    This coin looks to be tooled to me. Does anyone else see this also?

    I'll be back later.

    Ken
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Ken, I don't know if you remember the thread on my 1921. I will see if I can find and link it.

    lind to dime post thread

    Ken I put the coin in question between my 21 and 21 d

    edited to add links.
    image

    imageimage

    image

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • dohdoh Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭
    I would avoid a raw coin of that value on eBay. If you want one for your raw set, but a certified one and crack it. My two cents.
    Positive BST transactions with: too many names to list! 36 at last count.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Edited to say that I just can't tell from the picture.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,434 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PASS!!!!!!!!!!!
    All glory is fleeting.
  • kwmorgankwmorgan Posts: 967 ✭


    << <i>I would avoid a raw coin of that value on eBay. If you want one for your raw set, but a certified one and crack it. My two cents. >>



    I wholeheartedly agree with DOH. I won't even consider key coins or old US gold unless it is slabbed by PCGS, NGC, ICG or ANACS.
  • stevendanielsstevendaniels Posts: 378
    It looks cleaned/whizzed...when you look at coins on ebay, you'd think that if this was such a great coin, why wouldn't it be slabbed already. This coin is a problem!!!
    Perfect Transactions-Jamericon, bestclser1, DNADave, CoinAuctionsHelp, cucamongacoin, SeaEagleCoins(2), Walkerguy21D, tigermaroo, stainless, keets, pakasmom(2), ELKevvo, joebb1, bstat1020, Hmann, DRUNNER, BigJohnD
  • shottakershottaker Posts: 309


    << <i>Hey are you guys being truthful with me?...image

    This coin looks to be tooled to me. Does anyone else see this also?

    I'll be back later.

    Ken >>


    Check my post above. Its a whizzy!
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The hair looks very funky.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the pics fcloud. Now I see what I don't like about it. The nine is not right for 21 and the hair aroung the wing is wrong. It's altered from another date.
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Here is a close up of the hair on a 1923.

    image

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fairlaneman, I recall that when I had first joined this board, I bought (off ebay) a raw impaired proof V-Nickel that had been whizzed. From the poor photo, you couldn't really see anything, but even in hand it was difficult to see the hairlines. After I realized my mistake and posted a thread about being ripped, you advised me that I was wrong to buy a raw coin like that off ebay.

    Except for the fact that you are smarter in asking for opinions before making the purchase, what makes this coin different from the one I bought? Fair warning.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,424 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Fairlaneman, I recall that when I had first joined this board, I bought (off ebay) a raw impaired proof V-Nickel that had been whizzed. From the poor photo, you couldn't really see anything, but even in hand it was difficult to see the hairlines. After I realized my mistake and posted a thread about being ripped, you advised me that I was wrong to buy a raw coin like that off ebay.

    Except for the fact that you are smarter in asking for opinions before making the purchase, what makes this coin different from the one I bought? Fair warning. >>



    To answer your question. Absolutely nothing makes this coin different than the one you purchased. The only difference is that I would not even think about bidding on this coin. This was just my way of showing this messed up coin so others might learn a little something. Heck maybe also I could get a few people to call me a dummy for even thinking about bidding on the coin.

    What bothered me at the first of this thread was that the first few posters were concerned that the coin was on ebay and not the fact that the coin has major problems. Heck you could find a coin like this in your local coin shop. Ebay is not the problem the problem is that people with knowledge about coins still knowling buy and sell these. According to the ebay seller of this 21 it was purchased from Centsiles three or four years ago and now the seller is trying to dump the coin.

    Ken

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