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Do carbon spots actually grow?

ScavengerScavenger Posts: 987
in U.S. Coin Forum
I'm currently watching an auction on a very nice PCGS graded coin but there is a tiny carbon spot on the obverse. The coin is rather expensive and I'm afraid that this spot could enlarge over time and lower the grade of the coin. Anyone have experience with this?

Comments

  • maddogalemaddogale Posts: 859 ✭✭
    YES, in my experience they do grow, albeit slowly, if in the proper environment....but still, they do grow.
    "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on; I don't do these things to other people, I require the same from them."
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The deficiencies you see will always be a deficiency. No matter if it doesn't grow, you will see it as a bigger problem down the road. I believe you solved the riddle in your question.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since it wasn't there when minted and is now of non-zero size, yes, they grow. They also don't shrink.
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "Carbon spots" can continue to grew if what caused them is still active, or if the item is stored improperly in a moist environment.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    ........i wonder if the spot was there when slabbed?
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • itsnotjustmeitsnotjustme Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭
    It depends what you feed them. This is said as a joke, but likely holds some truth.... environment could affect this, but I am no expert.
    Give Blood (Red Bags) & Platelets (Yellow Bags)!
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bought this Zincoln on the cheap, with no spotting.
    Then out of the blue, a spot was born, and now is double in size.
    Purchased thinking it was a candidate for an upgrade, not a mark anywhere under 5x magnification.
    Now what? Sell as Lincoln shot in the neck? image

    image

    image
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • BcsicanBcsican Posts: 1,068
    Part of the reason I no longer collect Lincolns, have had to many with spots that just keep getting larger, and can happen to a brand new looking coin over time....
    BCSICAN

    "Because I can"

    myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,214 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is unpredictable. It is a chemical reaction, and all chemical reactions require that the reactants are present. Once used up however, the reaction will no longer take place. So... if the contaminant spot still has unreacted offending compounds in it.... then yes, it can continue to react... and grow.

    If it is an old spot, that no longer has any unreacted materials in it... then it may possibly not grow.

    The question is... is it an old (and relatively stable spot)... or a newer spot (that probably will continue to grow)? I would go by the assumption that the spot will continue to grow.
    ----- kj
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,247 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Part of the reason I no longer collect Lincolns, have had to many with spots that just keep getting larger, and can happen to a brand new looking coin over time.... >>



    A wise move.

    The spotting problems have always been a risk with the solid bronze cents. Now that they are only zinc with a copper coating, it's much worse. Zinc is not a good coinage metal because it's so reactive. It's one the reasons why some people think that in 100 years there will almost no pristine 1943 steel cents. Those coins were coated with zinc, and it tends to oxidize. I don't think it's quite that bad given proper storeage, but it's still risky to put big bucks into high grade modern Lincoln cents given the instability of the metal.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,894 ✭✭
    Yes
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    ........i wonder if the spot was there when slabbed?
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 13,035 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Part of the reason I no longer collect Lincolns, have had to many with spots that just keep getting larger, and can happen to a brand new looking coin over time.... >>




    ......hear you loud and clear.

    I'm thinking that with my '09-present Lincoln set I have to either embrace my dual role as collector and gardener (constantly weeding out the pieces that spot and buying/growing replacements) or else just retire the set and stick with the more stable wheat cents.

    Just thinking out loud today.

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

  • shottakershottaker Posts: 309


    << <i>........i wonder if the spot was there when slabbed?[/qTHE SPOT wasnt , but notice the little "nugget" in the center? It's a miniature piece of scrap metal that stuck to the coin after/during the stamping process. Can't tell you how many of those Nuggets we've picked off of older copper. Most carbon spots are post mint contamination, but this one appears to be mint caused. The different type of metal stuck on top is causing a type of electrolosis reaction if you will.
  • BcsicanBcsican Posts: 1,068


    << <i>The spotting problems have always been a risk with the solid bronze cents. Now that they are only zinc with a copper coating, it's much worse. Zinc is not a good coinage metal because it's so reactive. It's one the reasons why some people think that in 100 years there will almost no pristine 1943 steel cents. Those coins were coated with zinc, and it tends to oxidize. I don't think it's quite that bad given proper storeage, but it's still risky to put big bucks into high grade modern Lincoln cents given the instability of the metal. >>



    Good information to new collectors of Lincolns paying higher dollars what can happen to new coins over time...its a major concern...



    << <i>......hear you loud and clear.

    I'm thinking that with my '09-present Lincoln set I have to either embrace my dual role as collector and gardener (constantly weeding out the pieces that spot and buying/growing replacements) or else just retire the set and stick with the more stable wheat cents.

    Just thinking out loud today. >>



    Frustrating when the hobby takes on the role as curator to new coins...image
    BCSICAN

    "Because I can"

    myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
  • diamondmandiamondman Posts: 2,020


    << <i>Bought this Zincoln on the cheap, with no spotting.
    Then out of the blue, a spot was born, and now is double in size.
    Purchased thinking it was a candidate for an upgrade, not a mark anywhere under 5x magnification.
    Now what? Sell as Lincoln shot in the neck? image

    Sell it as the magic bullet error theory.

    image
  • mcgrovermcgrover Posts: 209 ✭
    Related to this, some different products using what they're calling the Intercept Shield have been marketed as a way to prevent damage due to chemical reactions. Anyone here that can testify one way or another?
    "If someone says 'A penny for your thoughts' and you give them your 2 cents worth, what happens to the extra penny?" G.Carlin
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭✭✭
    <<Related to this, some different products using what they're calling the Intercept Shield have been marketed as a way to prevent damage due to chemical reactions. Anyone here that can testify one way or another? >>

    My posted Zincoln was in a Intercept Shield sleve, in a Intercept box, and then the dreaded spot appeared.
    I've had horrible luck with Lincolns, even some in my Dansco have spotted.
    The only solution, don't collect Lincolns.
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,446 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>"Carbon spots" can continue to grew if what caused them is still active, or if the item is stored improperly in a moist environment. >>



    The above is right and is the best, most useful, reply to the original question so far.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    I wonder, if one can grow

    carbon spots fore a living?

    Sorta like mushrooms.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    If the coin is in a slab for a long time without spotting then it's less likely to spot but still possible.


    Ed
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    SPOTS can grow, but a spot comprised of carbon in general will not

    K S

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