Does "PQ for the grade" having any meaning for MS60 or 61 grades and for............

SanctionII

.............. lower circulated grades such as PO-1, FR-2, AG-3 and G-4?

I can not quite get my mind around the concept of a MS60 coin or a FR-2 coin being "PQ for the grade".

Can someone explain this to me?

GoldenEyeNumismatics

It's pretty simple.

If you have a shot MS61 coin in an MS60 holder, or a shot AG03 coin in a FR02 holder, then the coin is PQ for the assigned grade.

pmac

<< <i>It's pretty simple.

If you have a shot MS61 coin in an MS60 holder, or a shot AG03 coin in a FR02 holder, then the coin is PQ for the assigned grade. >>


Is this the equivilent to CAC?

PonyExpress8

Anything can be PQ for any grade. But I tend to agree it is way to overused and something I try not to use often in my descriptions.

Unknown

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BillJones

To "PQ" means superior eye appeal for the grade. Properly used to me it's pretty important. Technical grade, unattractive coins don't have much of an attraction for me.

stinkinlincoln

Yes it does.

Any grade can have premium quality coins, also those same grades can have dreck.


Like BillJones mentioned, its pretty important for me also. Not from the stand point of upgrades, more because I want great coins.

SanctionII

Thinking about this topic and reading the replies posted thus far leads me to invision a linear grading scale that looks sort of like a ruler. It has marks on it from one end to another the numbers 1 - 70 [Sheldon scale] adjacent to some of the marks indicating a jump from say FR-2 to AG-3. Like a ruler, the linear grading scale has additional, smaller marks in between the 2 and 3 indicating separate and further and smaller demarcations [2.1, 2.2, etc.] in the linear grading scale.

If a coin would be assigned a grade of 2.9, it is still a FR-2 and is not an AG-3. Such a 2.9 coin would be considered "PQ" for a FR-2 grade.

PQ could be assigned to any coin graded 1-69 [can there ever be a PQ for the grade MS70 or PF70 coin?, aka are there low end and high end 70 coins?].

Intellectually I can understand this analysis, however, applying it to reality would be tough. Take 100 FR-2 coins (raw or slabbed) and tell me which ones are PQ? From a technical grading standpoint, I would find it difficult since I would think FR-2 coins should, technically, look pretty much the same [assuming no toning, damage, etc. just good honest wear that reduces the coin to FR-2 from a technical analysis]. From a market grading standpoint, since that is so much more subjective, I could more easily see a "PQ" for the grade FR-2 coin that has great eye appeal.

If the hobby ever got to the point where grading was broken down into increments of tenths [i.e. MS 65, 65.1, 65.2........... up to 65.9], do you think that 100 1881P Morgans grading MS 65.6 could, should and would be sorted into those which were PQ for the MS65.6 grade and those which are not PQ for the MS65.6 grade? How far would this phenomena go?

illini420

I think it's a bit different for grades of 60 or 61. Unless we're talking about gold coins or maybe morgan dollars, those grades are very rarely given by the third party graders. So if you have a very very nice looking coin in one of those holders, the thinking might be that it would jump from 60 to maybe 62-63 if cracked and resubmitted??

tresgatos

Interesting question... can a MS-70 coin be found with a CAC sticker? By definition a
MS-70 coin is already perfect. Can you have perfect +?

Mowgli

<< <i>.............. lower circulated grades such as PO-1, FR-2, AG-3 and G-4?

I can not quite get my mind around the concept of a MS60 coin or a FR-2 coin being "PQ for the grade".

<< <i>

I'm in the same boat with you. An MS 60 is generally not a pretty coin so how can it be PQ? I'm not arguing with other comments so much as questioning how can someone have a premium quality PO-1?? Even if it is on the holder (which begs why anyone would holder a PO-1) how can anyone know a PO-1 is really special for the grade. Maybe this is something they do for super rarieties or expensive coins...?

MacCrimmon

I'm thinking of starting a "PQ for the grade" Newcomb variety set of LC in AU50-55.

In 'EAC-speak', an AU55 copper would have the sharpness (technical degree of wear) required for a very slightly circ. copper and no fingerprints, freckles, carbon spots, cu-oxide spotting, and be virtually smooth, and have it's original color. Essentially, an old EAC hand would grade such fantasy coin as AU55; Choice Oh yeah, it still possesses 70-80% of it's original luster.

A coin such as this would likely reside in a PCGS MS62BN or MS62RB slab; and MS64 plastique, ATS.

An even bigger challenge would be assembling a strict EF40 copper set with the surfaces choice condition.....ALL WEAR, NO HITS!!

pheh

<< <i>

<< <i>.............. lower circulated grades such as PO-1, FR-2, AG-3 and G-4?

I can not quite get my mind around the concept of a MS60 coin or a FR-2 coin being "PQ for the grade". >>



I'm in the same boat with you. An MS 60 is generally not a pretty coin so how can it be PQ? I'm not arguing with other comments so much as questioning how can someone have a premium quality PO-1?? Even if it is on the holder (which begs why anyone would holder a PO-1) how can anyone know a PO-1 is really special for the grade. Maybe this is something they do for super rarieties or expensive coins...? >>



Is your rational due to your opinion of the grade or the grade on the holder? There are PQ 60s for sure if you are judging by the grade on the holder. Though for many of those 60s I suspect it is arguable that they are MS at all and may actually be PQ 58s. IMHO it is also far more common to see this occur in gold vs. silver. I'm can't recall having seen 60 Morgan I'd call PQ, but I've seen a few 62 PLs I'd call PQ.

Edited: Killed the open ended [QUOTE TAG] madness.

ColonialCoinUnion

Let's try to make this simple.

If I hand you two 1881-S Morgans in identical MS60 holders, I'm guessing you're going to like one of them more than the other.

PerryHall

<< <i>To "PQ" means superior eye appeal for the grade. Properly used to me it's pretty important. Technical grade, unattractive coins don't have much of an attraction for me. >>



Agree. A Fair-2 coin that has no problems, nice uniform original color, minimal marks, and just plain even honest wear is definitely PQ in my opinion.

BECOKA

I agree with CCU and Perry, I believe it has little to do with the grade, if they are both accurately graded then it comes down to which one looks better and is more original.

I look for nice even wear, original aged color, lack of distracting marks in high visual areas etc...

A Low circulated coin that has been dipped and has a scare in a prime focal area is not PQ but the opposite may be.

Tip

I despise the use of PQ and other personal feeling descriptions of coins both raw and certified. I dismiss them and look for the real description of the coin. If I don't see what I want or the photo is not good, I ask questions and all the sellers have been very good in the answers. No matter the grade, buyers want to know all the details.
Tip

stinkinlincoln

<<Interesting question... can a MS-70 coin be found with a CAC sticker? By definition a
MS-70 coin is already perfect. Can you have perfect +? >>


I thought a green bean meant the coin was graded correctly? Not PQ?


<<An even bigger challenge would be assembling a strict EF40 copper set with the surfaces choice condition.....ALL WEAR, NO HITS!!>>

I know of a collection of these coins that are amazing. All raw, including several raw 1793 Chain cents. Bought over the last 50 years and not touched since.