Does it irritate you when dealers say coin is undergraded in slab?
pennyannie
Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
This is my pet peeve, dealers that list coins for sale in top 2 slabs and make comments that coin is undergraded and priced acording to correct grade. I can see it from time to time but not every 5th coin listed in inventory. If they were so sure why not just have it regraded and be done with it. It causes me to loss faith in the dealer and just label them as greedy in my book.
I just read a dealers home page and he claims he does not even like slabbed coins and likes to sell them raw. I noticed that his inventory list a lot of slabbed coins. LOL Stand up and crack them out!!!!!!
I just read a dealers home page and he claims he does not even like slabbed coins and likes to sell them raw. I noticed that his inventory list a lot of slabbed coins. LOL Stand up and crack them out!!!!!!
Mark
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
0
Comments
Somebody once said that ownership of a coin adds 1.5 grade points. I think that is true.
On the one hand, it does seem silly that people would second-guess top-tier TPGs, but on the other hand, the TPGs are human, too, and sometimes a coin IS undergraded by a tiny bit. Obviously when you're talking micro grade splits a lot of that is a matter of opinion.
And EVERYBODY has an opinion.
<< <i>Unless the piece exhibited really nice color I wouldn't even consider paying very much of a premium over the TPG grade. >>
I take it you pass on a lot of quality coins, then. I pay strong premiums all the time. I also think (and many who have seen them will agree) that my pieces are much better than average examples.
Its a nice coin I paid well over sheet for.
I want to make some money on it.
OR
I bought it thinking it would upgrade
It didnt but I still want to make money on it
See above
Consider the dealer....Some really can grade well.
The question is do you have to pay a big premium for the "CRAP SHOOT" ??
Gardnerville, NV
=========================
Our Website -->Innovation, Native & Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions
So, you get the shaft 2X.
For example, I get regular emails from a vest-pocket dealer with what I consider to be two wooden eyes.
He's a nice enough guy, but a putz as a coin dealer.
Every coin that I have seen ("hand-picked") he lists as above average for the grade, and they are usually "kissed" with light russet toning, or some such. He always asks top dollar.
I look at the occasional coin, hopeful as always, and find them to be pretty darn average.
Often the "kiss" of toning is dip residue. BTW, I can only read a superlative like "kissed" about once in a sales presentation before I get nauseous. 27 times and I'm puking my guts out.
OTOH, Mark Feld, Laura, Rick Snow, Julian - those are folks that don't irritate me with their claims to quality.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>Unless the piece exhibited really nice color I wouldn't even consider paying very much of a premium over the TPG grade. >>
Actually, if the piece didn't exhibit good color I wouldn't be looking at it.
Some dealers I might believe or at least take seriously. For others the term "snake oil" comes to mind, so it depends.
/edit to add: there are also many coins where the next grade up isn't worth the time, expense and trouble to send in for upgrade. The believability tends to go up on those coins.
Second, I bites dem on de arm or leg
Third, I walks away in a huff.
Camelot
<< <i>Eh, it's only human nature.
Somebody once said that ownership of a coin adds 1.5 grade points. I think that is true.
On the one hand, it does seem silly that people would second-guess top-tier TPGs, but on the other hand, the TPGs are human, too, and sometimes a coin IS undergraded by a tiny bit. Obviously when you're talking micro grade splits a lot of that is a matter of opinion.
And EVERYBODY has an opinion. >>
"Possession is nine points in the law and two points in grading."
TD
<< <i>First I punches dem in de nose
Second, I bites dem on de arm or leg
Third, I walks away in a huff.
Do you take the coin with you or leave it behind?
<< <i>Unless the piece exhibited really nice color I wouldn't even consider paying very much of a premium over the TPG grade. >>
I didn't say I didn't pay premiums, I just paid a huge premium for a commem at the Goldberg auction, but not because the dealer said it was undergraded.
<< <i>Does it irritate you when dealers say coin is undergraded in slab? >>
No. I couldn't care less. If I like the coin, and the price, I buy it. If I don't, I don't.
If it's a fact, not really.
I have a cpl on my site that are overgraded and stated as such. Let the coin speak for itself.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>This is my pet peeve, dealers that list coins for sale in top 2 slabs and make comments that coin is undergraded and priced acording to correct grade. I can see it from time to time but not every 5th coin listed in inventory. If they were so sure why not just have it regraded and be done with it. It causes me to loss faith in the dealer and just label them as greedy in my book.
I just read a dealers home page and he claims he does not even like slabbed coins and likes to sell them raw. I noticed that his inventory list a lot of slabbed coins. LOL Stand up and crack them out!!!!!! >>
I don't like slabbed coins either. I would much rather buy raw coin too. The only reason I send coins in for grading is because there are so many collectors that rely on someone else's opinion and won't pay as much unless a complete stranger has graded it. I think the TPG's are a joke. The reason these guys (myself included) don't crack the coins out to be sent back in is it is a big waste of money. The TPG's are so inconsistent that there's no telling how it will grade the second time, or if it will even grade at all.
Both NGC and PCGS overgrade, undergrade, and slab AT coins (although NGC is easily the most inconsistent). I've sent in about a dozen crack outs, and not one single time has a coin ever come back with the same grade. If the "experts" are that inconsistent I would figure that at the very least, 33% of all slabbed coins are undergraded. There's a lot of them I've seen out there graded too high also. I prefer not to buy graded coins without seeing them in hand first. Sorry it it is your pet peeve, but the reality is that most of the people that state a coin is graded too low are probably not lying.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>Eh, it's only human nature.
Somebody once said that ownership of a coin adds 1.5 grade points. I think that is true.
On the one hand, it does seem silly that people would second-guess top-tier TPGs, but on the other hand, the TPGs are human, too, and sometimes a coin IS undergraded by a tiny bit. Obviously when you're talking micro grade splits a lot of that is a matter of opinion.
And EVERYBODY has an opinion. >>
......enter the cac.
<< <i>I dislike 99% of dealers in general. I have met a few that I like but the rest just irritate me. My most recent run in with an irritating dealer was at the chicago coin expo. I walk up to the table and start to take a look. I see a decent looking toned morgan for sale. So I ask the lady behind the counter if I can take a look at the coin. She goes to ask someone else to come over and help me. Well here comes mr know it all dealer. I dont normally buy raw coins but this one had some nice color so I figured it was worth a look. Well I get the coin in hand and on the 2x2 it states Ms65 Dpml, I actually laughed out loud on accident. Then I look at the price, low and behold its 4x pcgs list price. I ask if he is flexible on the price considering its not graded. He then begins to argue with me about how it will grade and blah blah. I let him know I am not a fan of the slab game and that pcgs is a bit tough right now. He then stops talking and says he is going to run the coin over to pcgs to have it graded. Well he makes a B line for the grading table. I for some reason stand there and wait for him to get back. When he gets back he begins to treat me like I am wasting his time. I ask if he has any coins on his website. He is rude and states that I should check out his website as thats where all the cheap coins under 200.00 are. Needless to say I will never buy from this dealer nor look at his website again. Considering I had a little over 4k in my pocket and a book of blank checks it was a costly mistake on his part. >>
Who was the dealer?
Individuals, collectors or dealers, may value another aspect as more important.
The bottom line is what does the purchaser think.
Obviously, if the purchaser is not an expert in his own right and just accepts what the TPG has as gospel, anything that is said other than what is printed just seems like hype.
Experienced numismatists know all about the coins and just use the TPG opinion as just that, an opinion!!
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
Whats worse is the dealers that still promote Cac green beans as meaning PQ for the grade.
Well stated. As a dealer I would add one additional point, price guides are an opinion as well.
The vast majority of slabs are accurately graded, yet I did this exercise with a bulk submission I had recently of some buffalo nickels. There were dozens of 65's, similar of 64's and 6 66's. I grouped them together and then went through each grade grouping and within the same graded group there were definite differences. In the 66's since that was the smallest sample there were 2 coins I really liked and wondered if they weren't 67's, 3 that I thought were solid 66's and one that I thought was a bit less then the other 5.
The same exercise for the 65's and 64's resulted in similar groupings within the grade. So whether they are undergraded or not isn't so much the issue as whether they are nicer than average for the grade or not. As in Julian's comments, I tend to have a thing for strike so a well struck coin appeals to me more and I place more importance on strike then perhaps a surface hit or two. Every one has their preferences.
I do agree with the OP that this does tend to get overused, or PQ. I try and save that for coins I really like and are special for whatever reason.
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
<< <i>Have you ever had a dealer show you a slabbed 65 and tell you that it is overgraded? >>
I'm going to retract this statement, it does happen, sorry.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>Not true. Many coins have small differences in value between grades that do not warrant regrading. >>
If this is the case, then why is it worth mentioning that it's undergraded? IMO, sometimes when a coin is mentioned as undergraded it's to back up the reasoning why the coin is priced higher than the price of the slabbed grade.
Example: Someone isn't going to sell a slabbed MS64 coin for MS62 money if they believe it is of MS65 quality, right?
I understand completely that there are honest experienced dealers and collectors who know the coin is of higher grade and do mention it with all honesty when selling. And if the buyer agrees then both parties are happy. But at the same time I do believe there are people that try to exaggerate the quality of the coin knowing it isn't there just to bump up the price.