Early Copper Books
rsdoug81
Posts: 682 ✭✭
I got bitten by the copper bug, and I need a book recommendation. Ultimately, I'd like to add the Noyes two volume set to my library, but I can't swing the $200 + price tag at the moment. What's the next best thing? Sheldon? Breen? Newcomb?
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Comments
Both are good for cutting your teeth on Early Copper.
Besides the books you and Broadstruck have listed, I'd also recommend tracking down auction catalogs of big copper collections, notable from Superior Galleries (McAwley-Grellman handles the large cent sales), and Heritage (like the Rasmussen collection).
Penny Whimsy is a definite. What is the latest edition?
Also, does anyone know anything about Cooper Quotes by Robinson? Good investment?
Since your talking Early Copper wouldn't it make sense to get an insight to the collecting methods of the earliest custodians first
Add the Noyes volumes when you can. They are great attribution guides.
Penny Whimsy as already mentioned - I have the 1965 printing of the 1958 edition. Stay aware from the Durst reprints.
Breen's Encyclopedia of Early United States Cents edited by Mark Borckardt......some historical information, census information from Del Bland, good information on die states.
Newcomb is a better fit for the more advanced collector. A ggod book for the library, not a god book for attributing. Newcomb covers the middle-late dates
John Wright's THe Cent Book - great attributtion guide on the Middle Dates
Bob Grellmans attribution guide of United States Large cents 1840-1857 for the late dates.
Auction catalogs are important resources. A few of note - Superior's 1986, 1996, and 2002 Robinson S. Brown catalogs; Superiors's 1989 Jack Robinson Sale; Superior's 2003 Wallace Lee and C. Doug Smith Collections; Superior's 2001 JR Frankenfield Sale; Superior's 2004 September Pre-Long Beach Sale; Stacks 1988 Herman Halpern; Heritage's 2005 Wes Rasmussen Sale; 2006 Jules Reiver Sale; 2008 Walter Husak Sale; Goldbergs; Feb 2009 Ted Naftzger Sale and Pre-Long Beach Sale
CQR - Copper Quotes by Robinson (Jack Robinson). EAC pricing guide. EAC grading and pricing guide for all HC and LC varieties and by condition - proced in choice, average plus, average, average minus, and scudzy condition. Most recent edition is the 19th edition.
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Penny Whimsy is a definite. What is the latest edition?
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I heard the latest edition isn't as good as the photos aren't as nice as the older editions. So I bought an old copy from the '60s at a local show and was excited about it. Then, when I started to look at it I realized that the pages with the photos of all of the 1794 cents were missing!!!!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I'm a pretty strong middle class collector, but unless I was going to stick with problem and low grade coins, I would not last very long in the Sheldon die variety field. I collected half cents by die variety in the 1980s and early '90s. That was hard enough, and large cents are far more difficult.
There's nothing wrong with gaining knowledge on series you don't collect...
My Library is jam packed with books I've enjoyed reading yet never purchased a single coin.
<< <i>Unless you are going be the type of collector who reads the books but does not collect the coins
There's nothing wrong with gaining knowledge on series you don't collect...
My Library is jam packed with books I've enjoyed reading yet never purchased a single coin. >>
So is mine, but the trouble with early copper is that it is not longer a poor man's or even a middle class man's game any more. Given the mintages and the number of surviving pieces, it should be more collector friendly, but the market for it has left most of us choking in the dust. That's one of the reasons why the middle and late date large cents have gained so much popularity.
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<< <i>
My Library is jam packed with books I've enjoyed reading yet never purchased a single coin. >>
So is mine, but the trouble with early copper is that it is not longer a poor man's or even a middle class man's game any more. Given the mintages and the number surviving pieces, it should be more collector friendly, but the market for it has left most of us choking in the dust. That's one of the reasons why the middle and late date large cents have gained so much popularity. >>
I started collecting early copper literature about three months ago and am rapidly coming to the same conclusion. I had photos of a number of early large cents from an institutional collection that I wanted to attribute. Noyes' books are superb for that, esp. the ones in color. But as for actually buying the coins......it seems that early copper collectors are willing to put up with a lot more problems than the rest of us. So if you want anything with reasonable detail and attractive eye appeal the prices are steep. I think I'll stick w/the books for now, they are already pricey enough.
If you have a goal of collecting early copper but uncertain as to what area, e.g. middle dates, late dates, Turban, 1794s etc. then a recommendation...
1. Early American Cents / Penny Whimsy can find cheap copy somewhere less than $50 I'd imagine
2. Superior Galleries Brown (1986) and Robinson (1989) catalogs probably get both for $100 or cheaper - get Stacks Herman Halpern too if you can
3. As stated join EAC $15-$25 for membership and one of the best, if not the best numismatic publication PennyWise
4. CQR Copper Quotes by Robinson $20 I think correction $40 thanks 1798CentCollector
My guess is you can get 1-4 above for around $200 and the $200 will provide countless and fruitful evenings of enjoyment and learning. At a minimum get CQR, join EAC, join the Region8 newsletter and get the CDROM anthology of past PennyWise magazines (check with EAC to see if still available); this alone will keep you busy for 2-3 years and should provide you with enough lore, pricing data etc. to point you in an ad hoc copper-collecting direction.
CQR will cost you $40 new.
I'll also suggest you seek out one of the major copper dealers at a show, get a bit of advice, and look at his inventory to see what's available in price ranges you can live with - middle or late dats, grade, condition, etc. Tom Reynolds, Doug Bird, and Chris McCawley/Bob Grellman, all have extensive inventories of early copper and don't mind sharing their expertise.
Bill Jones has a good point, if you are thinking about collecting early coppers. There will be some very expensive areas, particularily the Early Dates, especially prior to 1800, high condition/grades, and rare die states. There are some more opportunities in the late dates mid-grade range. There are many ways you can collect, but determining your collecting strategy is important in early copper.
Since the Cents and Half Cents, were the first (1793) coins minted at the Philadelphia Mint, and have been collected and studied the longest, the background information one can learn is tremendous.
Spend part of your funds on books (and other references) and you will lose less money on the bourse floor!
<< <i>RTS makes a good point about the EAC Anthology. A CD ROM of all back issues of Penny-Wise, since 1967, is provided to all members. This is a treasure in and of itself. I believe it's still being sent to all new members. >>
I agree. You can spend a few months just reading and digesting this material.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>With all due respect, if you are having trouble swinging $200 for the books, how far do you think you are going to go in early copper? Unless you are going be the type of collector who reads the books but does not collect the coins, you are looking at very hard row of stumps.
I'm a pretty strong middle class collector, but unless I was going to stick with problem and low grade coins, I would not last very long in the Sheldon die variety field. I collected half cents by die variety in the 1980s and early '90s. That was hard enough, and large cents are far more difficult. >>
No offense taken, Bill. You raise a very valid point, so let me explain...
The reason why I said I can't swing the $200 right now is that my coin budget was blown for a couple months on a low grade wreath cent that I've purchased from Shawn Yancey. It's in a genuine holder due to some porosity/light corrosion, but it has AG3 details on the obverse and reverse details that are close to VG. It's a wonderful coin for a budget set, and I can't wait to get it in hand. I do, however, have a $50 gift card that I received for Father's Day. That's going to be my book money.
I have no delusions about putting together a Sheldon variety set. I would like to put together a copper type set, however, and I figure that familiarity with varieties and knowledge of the history of early copper can't hurt.
When I put together my set of copper cents I used 'United States Copper Cents' by Howard Newcomb. Very good descriptions of all the varieties and rarities. Lots of photos too to help.
Tip
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<< <i>With all due respect, if you are having trouble swinging $200 for the books, how far do you think you are going to go in early copper? Unless you are going be the type of collector who reads the books but does not collect the coins, you are looking at very hard row of stumps.
I'm a pretty strong middle class collector, but unless I was going to stick with problem and low grade coins, I would not last very long in the Sheldon die variety field. I collected half cents by die variety in the 1980s and early '90s. That was hard enough, and large cents are far more difficult. >>
No offense taken, Bill. You raise a very valid point, so let me explain...
The reason why I said I can't swing the $200 right now is that my coin budget was blown for a couple months on a low grade wreath cent that I've purchased from Shawn Yancey. It's in a genuine holder due to some porosity/light corrosion, but it has AG3 details on the obverse and reverse details that are close to VG. It's a wonderful coin for a budget set, and I can't wait to get it in hand. I do, however, have a $50 gift card that I received for Father's Day. That's going to be my book money.
I have no delusions about putting together a Sheldon variety set. I would like to put together a copper type set, however, and I figure that familiarity with varieties and knowledge of the history of early copper can't hurt. >>
RTS--Awesome coins and thanks for the advice! You, too Tip.
Here are Shawn Yancey's images of the wreath cent that I am purchasing. It's one of the nicer low grade wreath cents that I've seen, and I can't wait to have it in hand. And just a word about Shawn...he's a great guy to deal with!