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1857 Large Cent - Please comment.

sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I just picked this up today and would like to get some feedback on it. What do our large cent folks think?

I am sorry for the not-so-great pics:


image

image

Comments

  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is an 1857, you are right about that! image
  • jessecarlkjessecarlk Posts: 646
    i like it...it would fit nicely into my collection
    imageimageimage
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It is an 1857, you are right about that! image >>



    Thank you for your vote of confidence!image
  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,330 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>It is an 1857, you are right about that! image >>



    Thank you for your vote of confidence!image >>



    Honestly?

    If you got a deal on'er than good for you.

    One the other hand, I hope you did not pay to much and it was in your ballpark.

    Ray
  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really hate to be the first to reply to a thread, so here you go sumnom.................



    If it was up to me I would not buy the coin, but that's just me.
    I'm a rank amature and I can tell the coin has been put through the gauntlet!

    If you are happy than so am I! image

    Ray
  • cartwheelcartwheel Posts: 845 ✭
    Sorry; maybe it's the lighting, but it looks harshly cleaned to me.

    Cartwheel
    Cartwheel's Registry Sets

    Cartwheel's Showcase Coins
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    I will try to get better pictures. I don't think it's been harshly cleaned but I can see how the over exposure would make it look that way. Let me see what I can do to take better pics tomorrow.
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
    I don't think it's been cleaned. The harsh light emphasizes the hits and makes it hard to tell color but I'd say it is just a well circulated example of a tougher year. --Jerry
  • ArizonaJackArizonaJack Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭
    It's a nice coin, prolly seen some coin care or blue ribbon, but not bad on the eyes
    " YOU SUCK " Awarded 5/18/08
  • StubbyMcNumbthumbsStubbyMcNumbthumbs Posts: 1,259 ✭
    Hey, I like it! A nice low mintage year with 2 major types.


    I had one, but sold it, along with all my other large cents, a few years back. I was never real happy with it, but it was the only one I had seen available (that was pre-ebay).

    Here it is, liver spots and all...
    image
  • joecopperjoecopper Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭
    I agree with notwilight
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,437 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks cleaned with excessive marks for the grade.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    Net Fine. Decent collector grade. No sticker, though. image
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    perhaps,
    too clean for it's amount of circulation??
    LCoopie = Les
  • 78750Aggie78750Aggie Posts: 417 ✭✭
    291fifth - please expand on your observation...you've noticed something. What grade do you believe the coin will grade? It looks F-15 to me with many bag or other coin marks. Do you consider this unusual? Please explain, some on this forum are learning, including me.
    Aggie
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,437 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>291fifth - please expand on your observation...you've noticed something. What grade do you believe the coin will grade? It looks F-15 to me with many bag or other coin marks. Do you consider this unusual? Please explain, some on this forum are learning, including me. >>



    In terms of wear I would agree with F-15. While these coins lived a hard life, this one seems have had it harder than most (though the photographic lighting may make it look even worse than it is in hand.) Choice coins have fewer marks than normal for the grade and choice is what collectors should want.

    Regarding cleaning ... based on the photos this coin looks well scrubbed. In hand it may look very different.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
    F15 net VG. Still a tough date, and one that is in demand in all grades, with or without problems. Earlier this year I sold a VF that had a chunk taken out of it for > $150.

    Solid-for-the-grade examples can bring quite high prices across the board.
    Numismotography

    1/2 Cents

    U.S. Revenue Stamps

    image
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    F-15 details, net VG

    The coin has numerous rim bumps and based on the "halos" around the devices, it has been cleaned.

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i>F-15 details, net VG

    The coin has numerous rim bumps and based on the "halos" around the devices, it has been cleaned.

    Lane >>



    There is some crud around the devices-- this is where crud accumulates. Next to the crud are areas of normal wear. If there were areas of less wear/different surface appearance, that would indicate crud had been removed. --Jerry
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>F-15 details, net VG

    The coin has numerous rim bumps and based on the "halos" around the devices, it has been cleaned.

    Lane >>



    There is some crud around the devices-- this is where crud accumulates. Next to the crud are areas of normal wear. If there were areas of less wear/different surface appearance, that would indicate crud had been removed. --Jerry >>



    Hi Jerry-

    I would have to look at the coin in-hand. From the images it has the earmarks of a cleaned coin. I am not only referring to the protected areas near the start, but some of the stars appear to have lightened areas around the crud. Who knows, it could all be an artifact of the imaging.

    The surfaces look awfully reflective - even more so that the typical glossy brown cent. Again...could be the imaging.

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    Thank you all for the very informative responses. I have taken some better pictures this morning that give a more accurate representation of the color. The obverse is more accurate than the reverse pic. The halos come out quite prominently in these pics. I will have to agree that it looks cleaned. I still like it though.

    I probably overpaid. I am a little embarrassed to say how much. What might be a fair price for this piece?

    image

    image
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    Although I believe the coin has been cleaned/recolored, this date is in high demand, and the coin remains relatively attractive.

    TPGs would grade VF details, Net F.
    EAC would be a grade tougher -- F details, net VG.
    A fair price would be between $100 and $150.

    All of the above IMO....Mike
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    Arizona mentioned "Coin Care" and I have only recently heard about it. I heard a glowing review, so to speak, but I am suspicious. The bottle label says that it leaves a some sort of a coating. From all that I have heard about cleaning coins, this sounds like a no-no. What do we think about Coin Care?
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    Thank you, Mike. It looks like I did overpay by a fair amount but I'm not going to complain. I do like the coin but I will be a little more careful next time.

    The halos (haloes?), while prominent in the image, are not noticable in hand.
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Arizona mentioned "Coin Care" and I have only recently heard about it. I heard a glowing review, so to speak, but I am suspicious. The bottle label says that it leaves a some sort of a coating. From all that I have heard about cleaning coins, this sounds like a no-no. What do we think about Coin Care? >>



    Not necessary for this coin IMO. If you don't like the coin, get rid of it and find another. While the date is hard one for the braided hair large cents, even this one isn't THAT hard that you'd have to resort to conservation. Respectfully...Mike
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    Oh no, I will keep the coin. I was just looking for a general comment on Coin Care. I don't really understand what it is or what it does.
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thank you, Mike. It looks like I did overpay by a fair amount but I'm not going to complain. I do like the coin but I will be a little more careful next time.

    The halos (haloes?), while prominent in the image, are not noticable in hand. >>



    Very different from other metals, IMO, copper is just like that. Move the light a few degrees one direction or the other, and the coin can magically change appearances.

    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sumnom,

    We all overpay at some point in time.....hopefully, it wasn't too hurtful.
    First glance, and then again at your new pics, and I am thinking cleaned as well.
    Not harshly, to leave a lot of lines, etc, but the color looks weird to me.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Oh no, I will keep the coin. I was just looking for a general comment on Coin Care. I don't really understand what it is or what it does. >>



    It is just an oil. Sometimes used with rose thorns or q-tips to remove verdigris. Lots of copper collectors advocate using oils like Coin Care (and Blue Ribbon) to protect copper surfaces. They often give a coin a "glossy" appearance -- and that's what I suspect AJ was referring to in his post above....Mike
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    Bochiman, thank you for the consolation. image I didn't really hurt myself on the purchase so it's OK. I still like it even though I paid too much. The second of images really do bring out the color differences. I like the coin better than the images.

  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Oh no, I will keep the coin. I was just looking for a general comment on Coin Care. I don't really understand what it is or what it does. >>



    It is just an oil. Sometimes used with rose thorns or q-tips to remove verdigris. Lots of copper collectors advocate using oils like Coin Care (and Blue Ribbon) to protect copper surfaces. They often give a coin a "glossy" appearance -- and that's what I suspect AJ was referring to in his post above....Mike >>



    It reminds me a little of the old practice of using shellack (sp?). Do you use it, Mike?
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Oh no, I will keep the coin. I was just looking for a general comment on Coin Care. I don't really understand what it is or what it does. >>



    It is just an oil. Sometimes used with rose thorns or q-tips to remove verdigris. Lots of copper collectors advocate using oils like Coin Care (and Blue Ribbon) to protect copper surfaces. They often give a coin a "glossy" appearance -- and that's what I suspect AJ was referring to in his post above....Mike >>



    It reminds me a little of the old practice of using shellack (sp?). Do you use it, Mike? >>



    I have experimented with it, yes. I also own coins which have been oiled/conserved in the past. It is very common and accepted among the EAC/copper community.

    I prefer, however, to purchase stable coins that don't require "maintenance".
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    That makes sense, Mike. I suppose if it's OK with the EAC people, it's OK with me, even though it does make me a feel just a little uncomfortable.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,437 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry to be Mr. Negative, as usual, but this is not the time to be overpaying for anything ... certainly not for that coin.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most 1857 large cents did not see that much circulation. This, which I would call Fine-12 for sharpness less a couple of points for other issues, is really kind of low grade for the date. Usually they grade no lower than VF by sharpness, but they can have other problems that lower the net grade. Most of them are in the EF range.

    Sorry, this is a scarcer than average date, but one should be able to find one of these a bit nicer than this one.

    Here are couple of 1857 large cents that I now or have owned. The first one had EF sharpness, but a couple of edge marks that are in visible in the picture.

    imageimage

    This one is the piece now in my collection. It is raw. Using EAC standards, it's an MS-61, brown. If it were to be slabbed I'd say it would get an MS-63 or 64, brown. It does have a tinge of red.

    imageimage
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
    Very nice!

    By way of comparison, the one below is in a PCGS MS62BN holder.

    imageimage
    Numismotography

    1/2 Cents

    U.S. Revenue Stamps

    image
  • TipTip Posts: 26
    This is a nice '57 and a R-1 rarity. From what I see I call it a N1(A1). Large date with curl point just right of center of '8'. Tops of 1 and 8 are very close to bust and curl. Left base of 1 is over the right edge of a denticle. Your photo makes the coin appear bright and I hope this is lighting and not cleaning.
    Tip
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    FWIW, here's a '57 that PCGS graded 64 RB:

    image
    image
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    Thank you for the images of the nicer specimens! They are both educational and and a pleasure to look at.
  • joecopperjoecopper Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭
    CQR
    VG8 70
    VG10 80
    F12 135
    personally I would net it a 8-10 depending on what it looked like in hand
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    CQR?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,270 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>CQR? >>



    CQR = Copper Quotes by Robinson

    It's considered to be the pricing "bible" by many EAC members.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,369 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>CQR? >>



    CQR = Copper Quotes by Robinson

    It's considered to be the pricing "bible" by many EAC members. >>



    How often are the prices updated?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    CQR, thank you.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,270 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>CQR? >>



    CQR = Copper Quotes by Robinson

    It's considered to be the pricing "bible" by many EAC members. >>



    How often are the prices updated? >>



    Whenever Jack Robinson decides to publish a new edition, at least once a year.

    For copper varieties that are traded regularly, it's a good guide. When it comes to the rarities, guesswork is involved.

    Years ago the late Roger Cohen mailed a check to one of his copper buddies in the amount of the CQR price estimate for a piece he needed. Roger told me the fellow who got the check mailed it back and was a bit insulted by the offer. It's really hard to place prices on really rare coins that are in "firm hands."
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭


    << <i>CQR
    VG8 70
    VG10 80
    F12 135
    personally I would net it a 8-10 depending on what it looked like in hand >>



    Those prices are at or below Greysheet, and Greysheet is utterly useless on an 1857 large cent. You can't buy coins at those prices in the real world unless they have problems. If those prices are meant to be at the more conservative EAC grading standard, they're even more lowball.
    Numismotography

    1/2 Cents

    U.S. Revenue Stamps

    image
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    You're making me feel better, coinpictures!image

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