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Grade this half cent for me please ...

DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭✭✭
image
image
Doug

Comments

  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    Mint state coin netted down to 58 or 55 by NGC/ANACS would be my guess.
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Mint state coin netted down to 58 or 55 by NGC/ANACS would be my guess. >>



    Netted for what? My first thought was 64 if the leaves at 4pm on the reverse are strike, 58 if wear.
  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    58 or 63
  • FilamCoinsFilamCoins Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭

    I grade it G as in Gorgeous! image

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,289 ✭✭✭✭✭
    VF-30, possibly as high as XF-45. Nice coin, by the way!image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AU58, with a sticker!
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  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭
    Isn't it two different coins?
    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,406 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The sharpness grade is Mint State or very close to it, but I’m concerned about the two bright spots that are below the hair ribbon and the second one that is below the curl that is immediately below the ribbon. Those two spots look very unnatural to me, and might be an indicator that this coin has been cleaned and re-toned.

    The weakness of the strike on the reverse is okay because this is a Cohen 12, and that is not unusual for this variety. I am concerned about the dull look to the reverse however. That also is not consistent with gloss I see on the obverse.

    This is a very sharp, rather nice coin, but I have those reservations about it. If my suspicions on properly grounded, this coin might not get a grade. EAC collectors are more forgiving for defects because they understand the nature of early copper. But if the coin has been stripped and recolored, the net grade could drop to the AU-50, EF-45 era. If the coin passes as “natural,” it’s one of those AU-58, MS-62 situations.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭
    I give up! Where's Rod Serling?
    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,406 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Isn't it two different coins?

    I give up! Where's Rod Serling? >>



    Chances are this is not two different coins. Many early U.S. coins, especially the cents and half cents, were made from tied dies that were pushed to the limit. It took a long time and a fair amount of expense to make coin dies in those days, and the first mint pushed them to the limit.

    In this case, the C-12 is known to come with poorly struck reverse. Look at the detail in the leaves. That is pretty much the orginal mint sharpness showing there. This coin was struck in 1805 probably after some or maybe all of the 1805 stemless wreath half cents were struck.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Isn't it two different coins?

    I give up! Where's Rod Serling? >>



    Chances are this is not two different coins. Many early U.S. coins, especially the cents and half cents, were made from tied dies that were pushed to the limit. It took a long time and a fair amount of expense to make coin dies in those days, and the first mint pushed them to the limit.

    In this case, the C-12 is known to come with poorly struck reverse. Look at the detail in the leaves. That is pretty much the orginal mint sharpness showing there. This coin was struck in 1805 probably after some or maybe all of the 1805 stemless wreath half cents were struck. >>




    Bill, This is a capped bust obverse, that should have an open wreath and an image of an 1809 classic head reverse with a closed wreath.
    Please open up the "properties" for the reverse image provided and you will note it is marked as an 1809 coin.
    image
    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image


  • << <i>

    << <i>Isn't it two different coins?

    I give up! Where's Rod Serling? >>



    Chances are this is not two different coins. Many early U.S. coins, especially the cents and half cents, were made from tied dies that were pushed to the limit. It took a long time and a fair amount of expense to make coin dies in those days, and the first mint pushed them to the limit.

    In this case, the C-12 is known to come with poorly struck reverse. Look at the detail in the leaves. That is pretty much the orginal mint sharpness showing there. This coin was struck in 1805 probably after some or maybe all of the 1805 stemless wreath half cents were struck. >>



    I think he's talking about the fact that the coin's date is 1804, but the reverse is of the 1809-1857 type.
    imageimageimage
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
    Well in that case, it grades WTF-63... image
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,289 ✭✭✭✭✭
    On closer inspection, I'm willing to concede that my initial opinion was off a bit. I thought I was seeing wear, but I don't really see much wear. What I do is are some minescule nodules and some light marks, nothing too serious. I also see a couple of light spots, a little die wear, and a weak strike on the reverse which also has a darker coloration than the obverse. So, it could be an MS-58 or an MS-62 or 63 however you interpret and assess these variables.

    Please open up the "properties" for the reverse image provided and you will note it is marked as an 1809 coin.

    What's up with that?image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,406 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Isn't it two different coins?

    I give up! Where's Rod Serling? >>



    Chances are this is not two different coins. Many early U.S. coins, especially the cents and half cents, were made from tied dies that were pushed to the limit. It took a long time and a fair amount of expense to make coin dies in those days, and the first mint pushed them to the limit.

    In this case, the C-12 is known to come with poorly struck reverse. Look at the detail in the leaves. That is pretty much the orginal mint sharpness showing there. This coin was struck in 1805 probably after some or maybe all of the 1805 stemless wreath half cents were struck. >>




    Bill, This is a capped bust obverse, that should have an open wreath and an image of an 1809 classic head reverse with a closed wreath.
    Please open up the "properties" for the reverse image provided and you will note it is marked as an 1809 coin.
    image >>



    You are right. I am in the Twilight Zone. The reverse is from an 1809 half cent. image

    The guy asked for a grade and I just didn't look hard enough to realize that he'd mixed two coins. As stands it's a no-grade because we have half a coin.

    But I still don't like the red spots on the obverse.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭
    Hey, I was beginning to doubt I was in the right alternate universe.image

    Perhaps we can ask Doug to show us the correct match to either of the images & we can
    all start over.
    Where's Doug,,,Doug,,,Doug!!!
    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image


  • << <i>VF-30, possibly as high as XF-45. Nice coin, by the way!image >>



    uhhh what??
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Mint state coin netted down to 58 or 55 by NGC/ANACS would be my guess. >>



    Netted for what? My first thought was 64 if the leaves at 4pm on the reverse are strike, 58 if wear. >>



    The mule photos notwithstanding image , the net grade would be for a recoloring.
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,289 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The OP continues to send me messages via ebay's email system. I don't appreciate the juvenile aspects of this type of communication.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,289 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I apoligize to the OP. He was not the sender of the messages that I recieved.

    To the sender of the ebay messages: I get it. But please, next time could you identify yourself if you choose to comment to me in that mode. I have no axe to grind.

    Regards, jmski
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I owe everyone on this thread a huge apology. I posted this last night and went to bed without ever looking back at the post, and I have been working all day. I inadvertently copied the wrong picture address from my photobucket account without realizing it. The photo has been corrected.

    I agree with BillJones and MikeInFL. They both picked up on my concerns with the coin.
    Doug
  • joecopperjoecopper Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭
    to uhh whatt -
    see BillJones comments - absolutely correct - I certainly would not pay even 45 money. Could have been removed verdigris as well.
    Nice coin but flawed. XF45 C12 is 900 bucks. VF35 is $550 which, frankly I think is more like it. Actually 4 spots on obverse "0" in date and
    bottom curl. Cannot see this being original mint red showing -- too orange to me.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This coin seems to be this week's poster coin that best represents the need for TPG. VF35? I just don't get how a coin like this can be considered for a 35... even after a horrible day at the office.

    The coin does have the look of spending some time in blue ribbon which happens... it clearly is not even close to being original. The surfaces have an interesting appeal... even though the coin has the appearance of being enhanced... likely more for conservation than to make it look better. Grading this one from the image is very tough. I can see a grade as low as 58 and as high as 62. I don't think 63 is possible for this one, however, it is attractive

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭


    << <i>VF35 is $550 which, frankly I think is more like it. >>



    *chuckle* Don't we all...

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