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Will toners lose popularity???

In other thread a member voiced the opinion that he was going to wait for toners to lose their popularity, and white coins to become popular again, like it was 25 years ago. Will that ever happen? I say no, anyone who has developed a taste for color or patina is not going to change their collecting bent. For the coin world to "go back" would require a new generation of collectors who might possibly prefer the "old" look. What do you think????

Comments

  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>In other thread a member voiced the opinion that he was going to wait for toners to lose their popularity, and white coins to become popular again, like it was 25 years ago. Will that ever happen? I say no, anyone who has developed a taste for color or patina is not going to change their collecting bent. For the coin world to "go back" would require a new generation of collectors who might possibly prefer the "old" look. What do you think???? >>



    Of course...everything in numismatics cycles.

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,266 ✭✭✭
    Toners have already lost a fair amount of popularity. (Just look at how many go unsold on the B/S/T forum.)
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • anablepanablep Posts: 5,013 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They may lose their popularity, but the desire for original surfaces on a coin will never go away.

    If there is one thing I've learned about this hobby, it's the fickle nature of collectors & dealers that drive business...

    Collect what you love.
    Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!

    "Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."


    ~Wayne
  • RedTigerRedTiger Posts: 5,608
    The popularity waxes and wanes, these things do go in cycles. Right now what seems to be in is original. Some would say it is more like "faux" original, meaning a look good enough to suspend disbelief, even if the coin has dipped and retoned, and dipped and retoned so many times it isn't funny.

    As for toners, many observers report an increase in the supply of certain types of toners. While certain "old school" toning patterns are near impossible to duplicate, some attractive patterns can be accomplished in a short amount of time by helping the coins along. (See Taco Bell Napkin threads and similar threads for specific how to's.) The increased supply means that for some toning patterns, the premiums have dropped.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    I think most of the reduced popularity is due to the prevalence of AT'd coins and the difficulties of getting toners slabbed.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,145 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Truly magnificent natural toners will never lose their popularity. Some of the stuff that passes for nice on the forum will, tho.
  • RedTigerRedTiger Posts: 5,608


    << <i>I think most of the reduced popularity is due to the prevalence of AT'd coins and the difficulties of getting toners slabbed. >>



    I rarely comment on the AT/NT issue, because to me it is a non-issue. The more relevant question is how old the toning is, and how easy the pattern is to replicate in a lab. If I can verify that the coin was toned last year, I am not going to be much interested--I don't care how nice the coins looks. If the toning pattern is easy to replicate by wrapping the coin in a napkin or placing it an album for a few months, I am not that interested.

    I did a forum poll of ten randomly selected slabbed Morgan toners, and most voted 80% to 100% as NT. The more troubling issue for me, is that I believe it is likely that at least half of those slabbed toners were made during the past few years.
  • dizzyfoxxdizzyfoxx Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭
    I thought they already have?image

    When was the last time you saw a Battle Creek Morgan for example sell for 500-1000% over guide?image
    image...There's always time for coin collecting. image
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,283 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Toners have already lost a fair amount of popularity. (Just look at how many go unsold on the B/S/T forum.) >>



    Is that because they are losing the popularity or because they are losing the higher price points that were happening?
    Also, is it the nice ones going unsold or just "toned"?

    There are a lot of things left unsaid, that need to be said, before one can accurately say whether or not they have lost popularity.

    Like many things, radical toning and HUGE prices (and the trickle down effects from such) were fadish, imho. But, while I don't pay extremes for nice toning, I will pay above book.
    I know others do as well because I seldom get the coins if I am not willing to overly stretch.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • HalfStrikeHalfStrike Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭
    Toners are a gamble as you don't know if they keep toning.image
  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I expect the market to continue to cycle in a manner similar to what has happened in the past. This would include spikes in the price or appreciation of toned, superbly toned or original surface coinage as well as dips in this niche, too. It would also include spikes in the price or appreciation of naturally largely untoned or dipped coinage as well. The advent of quality digital photography and the internet has exposed many more folks to the toning niche than had been exposed to such coins only a generation ago. This will, in my mind, help to keep toning more in the mainstream for the greater pool of collectors and might serve to put a slight upward pressure on prices or demand regardless of cycle.

    As for the coins that are offered on the BST, well, some of them are horrific examples that are touted as mega-monsters and they show either a lack of knowledge on the part of the seller or they expose the seller as someone who will prey on those with less experience.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    If you were offered a complete set of 1909-1940 wheats in original full red or a set with toning at the same price what would you take?

    I'd take the full reds.

    My answer might be different if the choice was a common white SAE or a one with a rainbow.

    image
    Ed
  • yellowkidyellowkid Posts: 5,486


    << <i>I asked a similar question last year and the relies were are follows >>



    Some good comments, and thanks for the link!image
  • Well in reading this post so far it seems as though alot of people still just dont understand toning at all, or have any understanding of the toned market. Here are just a few things that I personally think about toning.

    1. Simply because a toned coin, or several toned coins do not sell on this bst really has no bearing at all on the toned coin market. You would need to look at the specific coin, grade, date, mint, and PRICE before you can say why the coin did not sell. There are several items that dont sell on the bst and it usually has nothing at all to do with the market but more of a price thing. Alot of peopel that collect coins simply dont check this site or the bst at all as well as alot of dealers dont either.

    2. People that are not toned coin collectors seem to think you can simply throw a coin in an album or wrap it in a taco bell napkin and all of a sudden you have a monster toned coin. This is just simply not true. Yes you can wrap a coin in a napkin and it will tone but the chances of you getting that coin graded by ngc or pcgs are next to zero. The general toning pattern of the napkin wrapped coin is very easy to spot and is not very desirable to begin with. Take a look at boom's thread about his quarters he attempted to get graded after throwing them in an envelope for a few years. Yes coins can be toned in a hurry on occasion and yes sometimes they will get graded, just like every other coin the tpg's do make mistakes. To a person that collects nothing but toned coins you can actually spot a "AT" coin even in a tpg and avoid the problem all together.

    3. Alot of people like to jump in on topics they simply dont have an understanding of. If you dont collect toned coins, and someone asks you "hey is this coin (AT)" What are you going to say? You will probly say oh thats (AT) simply because its a monster toned coin and you have never actually dealt with coins like that so obviously they are going to look unreal.

    4. Judging current prices of battle creek morgans is not a way to judge the market either. When the battle creek morgans first came out alot of people had never ever seen anything like them. There was a TON of hype around those coins and obviously hype drives prices. Most of the MONSTER battle creeks are still in the collections of the first buyers and will stay there for a long time. If a MONSTER battle creek was to go on the market you most likely would not see it in an auction, it would sell and for alot but it would be done privately.

    5. Anyone who says a toned coin will keep toining simply doesnt know what they are talking about once again. Yes some coins ie COPPER will continue to tone or change over time, but an original toned morgan is not going to do anything if properly cared for once in a pcgs or ngc slab.


    With toned coins as well as any other coin collecting. You should be familiar with what you collect. Dont run out and buy a bunch of raw toned coins if you dont know what you are doing. People make several mistakes in all aspects of coin collecting. Toned coins are just like any other series, learn about it before you jump in and you will avoid costly mistakes.
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 9,953 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the desire for original surfaces on a coin will never go away.


    Very true. I'm just as suspect of "original" white coins that have obviously been dipped to the extreme.





    Truly magnificent natural toners will never lose their popularity. Some of the stuff that passes for nice on the forum will, tho.


    Ouch! Written like somebody with way too much expendable income. image



  • dohdoh Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭
    Prolly not
    Positive BST transactions with: too many names to list! 36 at last count.
  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Will toners lose popularity???
    A very broad question to begin with... Soty27 did a nice job of laying out a detailed opinion and I concur.
    I am definitely a fan of nice original color and I don't see that will ever change. I do think collectors are becoming smarter
    about the true value of average colorful coins and I for one am glad to see the premiums come down in price.
    I am also suspicious and often turned off by blast white 60-100 year old coins like Seattleslammer pointed out.

  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    [Negativity purged]

    I do like the look of fiery luster underneath a natural colorful tone.
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭


    << <i>Toners have already lost a fair amount of popularity. (Just look at how many go unsold on the B/S/T forum.) >>





    That's a terrible reference for toned coins and their popularity IMO. The coins that go unsold here or anywhere else are mainly because some people think that ANY coin with some crusty, dark, or otherwise undesirable toning is somehow worth a big premium.

    Let's have Sunnywood put some of his 'A' coins up on the BST forum and we'll see just how "unpopular" toned coins really are image
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    For Classic Commemoratives, I buy white fully lustrous examples. Tones examples are simply not enjoyed universally, meaning some people like it, and some don't.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.


  • << <i>For Classic Commemoratives, I buy white fully lustrous examples. Tones examples are simply not enjoyed universally, meaning some people like it, and some don't. >>

    image
    Krav Maga is my main interest.
  • The wild crazy fake colors... yeah, they will slip.

    But, the true coin lovers love original surfaces, which are usually toned , sometimes with natural and rather cool rainbows... natural toning has a lot of eye appeal and adds to the originality of the old silver coins so... I think it will always be popular.

    Except of course for Morgans... which must be blast white! image
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 9,953 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For Classic Commemoratives, I buy white fully lustrous examples. Tones examples are simply not enjoyed universally, meaning some people like it, and some don't.



    I disagree that white examples are enjoyed universally. In fact, all white commems are pretty boring IMO, even the ultra high grade examples.




  • icsoccericsoccer Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭
    One word, "No"
    image
    Successful BST transactions to date: Coindeuce, Cohodk, dantheman984, STONE, LeeG, jy8s, jkal, SeaEagleCoins, Hyperion, silverman68,Meltdown,RichieURich,savoyspecial,Barndog
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think top tier NT will remain in demand. Collectors like all kinds of rarity (absolute, conditional, date/mm, varieties, VAMs, etc.) and toning is one way to achieve that. Additionally, some are quite beautiful.

  • True Rainbow Toners will not but dirty yellow and browns will you cant rub rainbows off
  • why i say this i could throw a rainbow out to tone that yellow and brown oils you can rub off
  • LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭
    more toners for me.
    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
    "Senorita HepKitty"
    "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter

  • Toning on Silver is Natural, Blast White Silver is Unnatural...

    Dipping a coin is a little like ATing a coin in my eyes...

    My Ebay Auctions

    Currently Listed: Nothing

    Take Care, Dave
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>In other thread a member voiced the opinion that he was going to wait for toners to lose their popularity, and white coins to become popular again, like it was 25 years ago. >>



    How long is he prepared to wait?
  • yellowkidyellowkid Posts: 5,486


    << <i>For Classic Commemoratives, I buy white fully lustrous examples. Tones examples are simply not enjoyed universally, meaning some people like it, and some don't.



    I disagree that white examples are enjoyed universally. In fact, all white commems are pretty boring IMO, even the ultra high grade examples. >>

    image
  • mommam17mommam17 Posts: 971 ✭✭✭
    Untoned commems are readily available for sale. Check Ebay. Nice toners are usually not on the market for long. In my opinion, the eye appeal in Monsterman and Dr. Cali`s collections have it all over any untoned collection.
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,576 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Id certainly respect a toned 100 year old coin a LOT more than a toned 5 year old coin.
  • I've become a big fan of lightly toned coins-
    my icon is one of my favorites
    WILL WORK FOR CENTS, QUARTERS, HALVES, DOLLARS....

    1879-O{Rev}: 1st coin of my "secret set"
    imagemy eBay
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>In other thread a member voiced the opinion that he was going to wait for toners to lose their popularity, and white coins to become popular again, like it was 25 years ago. >>

    How long is he prepared to wait? >>

    Hopefully he hasn't been acquiring white coins that tone by then image
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Id certainly respect a toned 100 year old coin a LOT more than a toned 5 year old coin. >>

    Is it true the other way for white coins as well? More respect for a 5 year old white coin than a 100 year old one?
  • Cycles. Its all relative in this hobby. Whats hot today is cold tomorrow. Toners will stay popular from now on to some extent, just like white coins to some. Itll always be a mixture of the two. So, no to answer your question.

    I do think alot of the dumb prices are over with now. Some dealer that once sold lots of toners is gone, and it seems the massive prices have left with them. image


  • << <i>I've become a big fan of lightly toned coins-
    my icon is one of my favorites >>



    image
  • PCcoinsPCcoins Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭
    I don't possibly see how boring white coins could ever be desired over original patina or rainbow toning on coins.

    I have seen tons of blast white coins and only a few hundred amazing toned coins image
    "It is what it is."
  • jhdflajhdfla Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭
    No. Original natural patina or the rare true rainbow original coin will never go out of favor, and IMO is far superior to blast white.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    originality will always have a strong cult following

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.



  • << <i>I don't possibly see how boring white coins could ever be desired over original patina or rainbow toning on coins.

    I have seen tons of blast white coins and only a few hundred amazing toned coins image >>





    I agree image At coin shows I dont see how anyone could possibly enjoy sifting through thousands of white coins. When I see a dealer with monster toned morgans on the other hand I often spend lots of time and money at that dealers table.
  • DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Superb original toning is a sign of originality and originality never goes "out of style". Toning will always have a respected place in numismatics.

    Drunner
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Even if a coin is "flash" dipped once, its luster should be blazing. Let it tone, and the toning is then the look of the coin. If the toning is not pleasant, and it usually is not pleasant to most people, another dip will ruin the luster of the coin. I do not see any way around this predicament. I buy lustrous white Classic Commemoratives.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • No....they won't lose popularity but just like all collectibles prices will fluctuate as tastes change and economies crumble image

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