Will toners lose popularity???
yellowkid
Posts: 5,486 ✭
In other thread a member voiced the opinion that he was going to wait for toners to lose their popularity, and white coins to become popular again, like it was 25 years ago. Will that ever happen? I say no, anyone who has developed a taste for color or patina is not going to change their collecting bent. For the coin world to "go back" would require a new generation of collectors who might possibly prefer the "old" look. What do you think????
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<< <i>In other thread a member voiced the opinion that he was going to wait for toners to lose their popularity, and white coins to become popular again, like it was 25 years ago. Will that ever happen? I say no, anyone who has developed a taste for color or patina is not going to change their collecting bent. For the coin world to "go back" would require a new generation of collectors who might possibly prefer the "old" look. What do you think???? >>
Of course...everything in numismatics cycles.
Lane
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If there is one thing I've learned about this hobby, it's the fickle nature of collectors & dealers that drive business...
Collect what you love.
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As for toners, many observers report an increase in the supply of certain types of toners. While certain "old school" toning patterns are near impossible to duplicate, some attractive patterns can be accomplished in a short amount of time by helping the coins along. (See Taco Bell Napkin threads and similar threads for specific how to's.) The increased supply means that for some toning patterns, the premiums have dropped.
<< <i>I think most of the reduced popularity is due to the prevalence of AT'd coins and the difficulties of getting toners slabbed. >>
I rarely comment on the AT/NT issue, because to me it is a non-issue. The more relevant question is how old the toning is, and how easy the pattern is to replicate in a lab. If I can verify that the coin was toned last year, I am not going to be much interested--I don't care how nice the coins looks. If the toning pattern is easy to replicate by wrapping the coin in a napkin or placing it an album for a few months, I am not that interested.
I did a forum poll of ten randomly selected slabbed Morgan toners, and most voted 80% to 100% as NT. The more troubling issue for me, is that I believe it is likely that at least half of those slabbed toners were made during the past few years.
When was the last time you saw a Battle Creek Morgan for example sell for 500-1000% over guide?
<< <i>Toners have already lost a fair amount of popularity. (Just look at how many go unsold on the B/S/T forum.) >>
Is that because they are losing the popularity or because they are losing the higher price points that were happening?
Also, is it the nice ones going unsold or just "toned"?
There are a lot of things left unsaid, that need to be said, before one can accurately say whether or not they have lost popularity.
Like many things, radical toning and HUGE prices (and the trickle down effects from such) were fadish, imho. But, while I don't pay extremes for nice toning, I will pay above book.
I know others do as well because I seldom get the coins if I am not willing to overly stretch.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
As for the coins that are offered on the BST, well, some of them are horrific examples that are touted as mega-monsters and they show either a lack of knowledge on the part of the seller or they expose the seller as someone who will prey on those with less experience.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I'd take the full reds.
My answer might be different if the choice was a common white SAE or a one with a rainbow.
<< <i>I asked a similar question last year and the relies were are follows >>
Some good comments, and thanks for the link!
1. Simply because a toned coin, or several toned coins do not sell on this bst really has no bearing at all on the toned coin market. You would need to look at the specific coin, grade, date, mint, and PRICE before you can say why the coin did not sell. There are several items that dont sell on the bst and it usually has nothing at all to do with the market but more of a price thing. Alot of peopel that collect coins simply dont check this site or the bst at all as well as alot of dealers dont either.
2. People that are not toned coin collectors seem to think you can simply throw a coin in an album or wrap it in a taco bell napkin and all of a sudden you have a monster toned coin. This is just simply not true. Yes you can wrap a coin in a napkin and it will tone but the chances of you getting that coin graded by ngc or pcgs are next to zero. The general toning pattern of the napkin wrapped coin is very easy to spot and is not very desirable to begin with. Take a look at boom's thread about his quarters he attempted to get graded after throwing them in an envelope for a few years. Yes coins can be toned in a hurry on occasion and yes sometimes they will get graded, just like every other coin the tpg's do make mistakes. To a person that collects nothing but toned coins you can actually spot a "AT" coin even in a tpg and avoid the problem all together.
3. Alot of people like to jump in on topics they simply dont have an understanding of. If you dont collect toned coins, and someone asks you "hey is this coin (AT)" What are you going to say? You will probly say oh thats (AT) simply because its a monster toned coin and you have never actually dealt with coins like that so obviously they are going to look unreal.
4. Judging current prices of battle creek morgans is not a way to judge the market either. When the battle creek morgans first came out alot of people had never ever seen anything like them. There was a TON of hype around those coins and obviously hype drives prices. Most of the MONSTER battle creeks are still in the collections of the first buyers and will stay there for a long time. If a MONSTER battle creek was to go on the market you most likely would not see it in an auction, it would sell and for alot but it would be done privately.
5. Anyone who says a toned coin will keep toining simply doesnt know what they are talking about once again. Yes some coins ie COPPER will continue to tone or change over time, but an original toned morgan is not going to do anything if properly cared for once in a pcgs or ngc slab.
With toned coins as well as any other coin collecting. You should be familiar with what you collect. Dont run out and buy a bunch of raw toned coins if you dont know what you are doing. People make several mistakes in all aspects of coin collecting. Toned coins are just like any other series, learn about it before you jump in and you will avoid costly mistakes.
Very true. I'm just as suspect of "original" white coins that have obviously been dipped to the extreme.
Truly magnificent natural toners will never lose their popularity. Some of the stuff that passes for nice on the forum will, tho.
Ouch! Written like somebody with way too much expendable income.
A very broad question to begin with... Soty27 did a nice job of laying out a detailed opinion and I concur.
I am definitely a fan of nice original color and I don't see that will ever change. I do think collectors are becoming smarter
about the true value of average colorful coins and I for one am glad to see the premiums come down in price.
I am also suspicious and often turned off by blast white 60-100 year old coins like Seattleslammer pointed out.
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I do like the look of fiery luster underneath a natural colorful tone.
<< <i>Toners have already lost a fair amount of popularity. (Just look at how many go unsold on the B/S/T forum.) >>
That's a terrible reference for toned coins and their popularity IMO. The coins that go unsold here or anywhere else are mainly because some people think that ANY coin with some crusty, dark, or otherwise undesirable toning is somehow worth a big premium.
Let's have Sunnywood put some of his 'A' coins up on the BST forum and we'll see just how "unpopular" toned coins really are
<< <i>For Classic Commemoratives, I buy white fully lustrous examples. Tones examples are simply not enjoyed universally, meaning some people like it, and some don't. >>
But, the true coin lovers love original surfaces, which are usually toned , sometimes with natural and rather cool rainbows... natural toning has a lot of eye appeal and adds to the originality of the old silver coins so... I think it will always be popular.
Except of course for Morgans... which must be blast white!
I disagree that white examples are enjoyed universally. In fact, all white commems are pretty boring IMO, even the ultra high grade examples.
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Toning on Silver is Natural, Blast White Silver is Unnatural...
Dipping a coin is a little like ATing a coin in my eyes...
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<< <i>In other thread a member voiced the opinion that he was going to wait for toners to lose their popularity, and white coins to become popular again, like it was 25 years ago. >>
How long is he prepared to wait?
<< <i>For Classic Commemoratives, I buy white fully lustrous examples. Tones examples are simply not enjoyed universally, meaning some people like it, and some don't.
I disagree that white examples are enjoyed universally. In fact, all white commems are pretty boring IMO, even the ultra high grade examples. >>
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<< <i>
<< <i>In other thread a member voiced the opinion that he was going to wait for toners to lose their popularity, and white coins to become popular again, like it was 25 years ago. >>
How long is he prepared to wait? >>
Hopefully he hasn't been acquiring white coins that tone by then
<< <i>Id certainly respect a toned 100 year old coin a LOT more than a toned 5 year old coin. >>
Is it true the other way for white coins as well? More respect for a 5 year old white coin than a 100 year old one?
I do think alot of the dumb prices are over with now. Some dealer that once sold lots of toners is gone, and it seems the massive prices have left with them.
<< <i>I've become a big fan of lightly toned coins-
my icon is one of my favorites >>
I have seen tons of blast white coins and only a few hundred amazing toned coins
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<< <i>I don't possibly see how boring white coins could ever be desired over original patina or rainbow toning on coins.
I have seen tons of blast white coins and only a few hundred amazing toned coins >>
I agree At coin shows I dont see how anyone could possibly enjoy sifting through thousands of white coins. When I see a dealer with monster toned morgans on the other hand I often spend lots of time and money at that dealers table.
Drunner