<< <i>I'm seeing a lot of good stuff come on the market because a lot of formerly tight-handed people need to raise money. Maybe not everything you're looking for, Dale, but rest assured that there will be plenty of things to buy at the ANA, and into the fall, and at FUN, etc. >>
So, if a lot of people are selling because they need to raise money, that would indicate that sellers lack pricing power in the market right now, which would tend to substantiate the OP's thesis, right?
<< <i>I'm seeing a lot of good stuff come on the market because a lot of formerly tight-handed people need to raise money. Maybe not everything you're looking for, Dale, but rest assured that there will be plenty of things to buy at the ANA, and into the fall, and at FUN, etc. >>
So, if a lot of people are selling because they need to raise money, that would indicate that sellers lack pricing power in the market right now, which would tend to substantiate the OP's thesis, right? >>
Dont use me as a market indicator. Ive come to realize that if your are really interested in just money.....then you need to be in CD's. Not stocks, not bonds, not real estate, not gold, not silver......and not coins. Just CD's.
Ive taken some losses, taken some gains. Its working out fine.
Its all about collecting for me now, Im not worrying myself over profit/loss etc etc. Maybe thats the wrong way to go about it but owning the coins I had just wasnt any fun any longer. The *Passion* had totally left. Gonezo. Lincolns...........they are pennies. That Stupid Wretched Artless Flag Back was what pushed the cart over the mountaintop. Totally lost interest, lock stock and barrel.
Now, the nice thing is.....that while * I * may have lost interest, there are lots of buyers out there who are into the series and scooping up coins Im selling. But then, I didnt buy junk. Quality Coins always will have a buyer. Nothing wrong with selling coins in a series that appears to be at the top of its market, and buying into a series that may be at the bottom of ITS market.
You have to ask yourself, to paraphrase Davey "Did I have fun with my coins today?"
And thats the way I see the world out of this narrow viewpoint.
I hope you are right. I would love to buy some more Gem bust halves, at the "right" price. >>
Dealers need to lower their prices more to reflect the true market.
If alot of new coins are coming to dealers at the right price, I suspect that dealers have yet to pass that "right price on to collecors", that is their spreads are to wide...that is the sense I get. I stand by what I said......until their is a more active two way market (ie more true coin marketmakers buying and selling ), until spreads between bid and ask narrow on meaningful coins, and until the consignment madness dries up ( supply) so that coin dealers are put in a position to take a risk and actually buy coins to position for their inventory, I think the coin "market" and coins have further room to fall......
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
These discussions are quite interesting to me. The current situation with many downward price adjustments offers opportunities to collectors and dealers. What I have seen is that certain dealers are more cognizant of changing market conditions, adjust pricing on the selling and buying end, being nimble and responsive, and this business model serves them well. Other dealers may hold on to inventory which may not sell for yesterday's prices, thus tying up the dealers' money and not allowing them to buy as their cash is all tied up; some of these dealers may end up going out of business.
For collectors, being selective and opportunistic can be very rewarding in terms of picking off some nice coins (true at any time), some at prices that seem much more reasonable than a year ago. As some posters have indicated, there are some nice coins coming out all the time, and the current financial situation in the country has caused some people strongly holding very nice coins to sell them. I have personally taken advantage of some favorable pricing on a few very nice coins that would have cost me considerably more a year ago. I tend to hold my coins long-term so that these differences may not be that big in the long run, but I prefer to be frugal and try to be as wise as possible with my purchases.
<< <i>If it's really not a great time to sell any coins, then it must be a good time to buy them. Right? >>
Wrong......when there is a lack of an active two way market, when bid/ask levels considerably widen, when dealer's inventories are being fattened by consignments so they don't have to buy.....that is not a good time to buy. >>
Then please explain when it IS a good time to buy. >>
When the opposite of what I stated is occuring. >>
OK - when was that last occurring? Specifically - last August? January 2007? 2002? 1979? >>
I think you have a better idea on the better market periods being a professional full time dealer................ >>
<< <i>Dont use me as a market indicator. Ive come to realize that if your are really interested in just money.....then you need to be in CD's. Not stocks, not bonds, not real estate, not gold, not silver......and not coins. Just CD's.
Ive taken some losses, taken some gains. Its working out fine.
Its all about collecting for me now, Im not worrying myself over profit/loss etc etc. Maybe thats the wrong way to go about it but owning the coins I had just wasnt any fun any longer. The *Passion* had totally left. Gonezo. Lincolns...........they are pennies. That Stupid Wretched Artless Flag Back was what pushed the cart over the mountaintop. Totally lost interest, lock stock and barrel.
Now, the nice thing is.....that while * I * may have lost interest, there are lots of buyers out there who are into the series and scooping up coins Im selling. But then, I didnt buy junk. Quality Coins always will have a buyer. Nothing wrong with selling coins in a series that appears to be at the top of its market, and buying into a series that may be at the bottom of ITS market.
You have to ask yourself, to paraphrase Davey "Did I have fun with my coins today?"
And thats the way I see the world out of this narrow viewpoint. >>
If you are just in CD's, at current interest levels, you are not even keeping up with inflation.
The contrarian point of view is what has made many rich over TIME, ie... Buy when everyone is selling and sell when everyone is buying
And those that bought "bargains" in 1990-1991, saw some terrific beatings over the next 6-8 yrs as prices dropped much further. I recall picking up a superb gem MS67 seated half dime in 1993 that was at 40% of it's 1990 high. Within 3 years it was down another 30-50% from those bargain levels and really didn't turn around until a few years after that. No one knows the future. That is, whether this market turns around by next year, or takes several more years to bottom as it did in the 1990's. One can do very well by timing the eventual bottom, or get their butts handed to them by buying bargains way too early. Only Miss Cleo knows for sure.
I have been following the Muscle car auction market for 25 years. I like to go and buy something and then enjoy it and sell the car. I don't think we will ever see the prices of 5 to 10 years ago.
I thought the same thing following the muscle car peak in 1989-1990. Yet once again, those "amazing" prices were often well exceeded in the 2004-2007 market. Will we see higher prices someday down the road? I think we will. What alternatives do we have if huge amounts of play money continue to be created? I sold my last muscle car in the fall of 2004 to concentrate solely on coins and gold. Someday I hope those cars will be cheap enough again for me to want to buy back in. And then down the road there will be the issues of finding affordable gas, tailpipe emissions, clunker bills, tax decentives, etc. Frankly, I'm surprised the classic car market is still basically in good shape considering all the various legislative attempts that have been made on it since the 1990's.
<< <i>So have things improved for anyone since this post?
I have sold alot of coins ( some at losses) and bought some nicer coins too at full retail...
>>
If this last heritage sale was any indication, its a great time to sell certain series. I am holding long term though, especially my early american coinage.
All coins kept in bank vaults. PCGS Registries Box of 20 SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>I watched a lot of classic cars NOT sale at auction last week because reserves were not met. Corvettes bid over 100k and falling 10k or more short of reserve. Personally i would sell and move on. I feel it may still go lower.
6 more months or a year down the road strong hands may start trembling on cars, coins and real estate. >>
Aren't Corvettes the Morgan Dollars of the classic car market; common but popular? >>
Kinda those and mustangs.
Monte carlos I get the feeling are kinda like the steel penny they stand out for being different kinda cool. Tends to always have rust on them and hold no real value. Good for use more than investment. MHO
Founder of the NDCCA. *WAM Count : 025. *NDCCA Database Count : 2,610. *You suck 6/24/10. In memory of Tiggar 5/21/1994 - 5/28/2010
Comments
<< <i>I'm seeing a lot of good stuff come on the market because a lot of formerly tight-handed people need to raise money. Maybe not everything you're looking for, Dale, but rest assured that there will be plenty of things to buy at the ANA, and into the fall, and at FUN, etc. >>
So, if a lot of people are selling because they need to raise money, that would indicate that sellers lack pricing
power in the market right now, which would tend to substantiate the OP's thesis, right?
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm seeing a lot of good stuff come on the market because a lot of formerly tight-handed people need to raise money. Maybe not everything you're looking for, Dale, but rest assured that there will be plenty of things to buy at the ANA, and into the fall, and at FUN, etc. >>
So, if a lot of people are selling because they need to raise money, that would indicate that sellers lack pricing
power in the market right now, which would tend to substantiate the OP's thesis, right? >>
Of course. Which is why it is a good time to buy.
Ive taken some losses, taken some gains. Its working out fine.
Its all about collecting for me now, Im not worrying myself over profit/loss etc etc. Maybe thats the wrong way to go about it but owning the coins I had just wasnt any fun any longer. The *Passion* had totally left. Gonezo. Lincolns...........they are pennies. That Stupid Wretched Artless Flag Back was what pushed the cart over the mountaintop. Totally lost interest, lock stock and barrel.
Now, the nice thing is.....that while * I * may have lost interest, there are lots of buyers out there who are into the series and scooping up coins Im selling. But then, I didnt buy junk. Quality Coins always will have a buyer. Nothing wrong with selling coins in a series that appears to be at the top of its market, and buying into a series that may be at the bottom of ITS market.
You have to ask yourself, to paraphrase Davey "Did I have fun with my coins today?"
And thats the way I see the world out of this narrow viewpoint.
<< <i>John,
I hope you are right. I would love to buy some more Gem bust halves, at the "right" price. >>
Dealers need to lower their prices more to reflect the true market.
If alot of new coins are coming to dealers at the right price, I suspect that dealers have yet to pass that "right price on to collecors", that is their spreads are to wide...that is the sense I get.
I stand by what I said......until their is a more active two way market (ie more true coin marketmakers buying and selling ), until spreads between bid and ask narrow on meaningful coins, and until the consignment madness dries up ( supply) so that coin dealers are put in a position to take a risk and actually buy coins to position for their inventory, I think the coin "market" and coins have further room to fall......
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
For collectors, being selective and opportunistic can be very rewarding in terms of picking off some nice coins (true at any time), some at prices that seem much more reasonable than a year ago. As some posters have indicated, there are some nice coins coming out all the time, and the current financial situation in the country has caused some people strongly holding very nice coins to sell them. I have personally taken advantage of some favorable pricing on a few very nice coins that would have cost me considerably more a year ago. I tend to hold my coins long-term so that these differences may not be that big in the long run, but I prefer to be frugal and try to be as wise as possible with my purchases.
<< <i>I think the coin "market" and coins have further room to fall...... >>
If you believe this, and you need to sell some coins, you should do so immediately.
Gary
<< <i>
<< <i>I think the coin "market" and coins have further room to fall...... >>
If you believe this, and you need to sell some coins, you should do so immediately. >>
I have alot of coins, alot I tell you but am not concerned about price adjustments as afterall it is a hobby and I am a collector at heart.....
edit to say......besides there are not enough dealers to sell too
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>edit to say......besides there are not enough dealers to sell too
Sounds like you need to take a table at the ANA.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If it's really not a great time to sell any coins, then it must be a good time to buy them. Right? >>
Wrong......when there is a lack of an active two way market, when bid/ask levels considerably widen, when dealer's inventories are being fattened by consignments so they don't have to buy.....that is not a good time to buy. >>
Then please explain when it IS a good time to buy. >>
When the opposite of what I stated is occuring. >>
OK - when was that last occurring? Specifically - last August? January 2007? 2002? 1979? >>
I think you have a better idea on the better market periods being a professional full time dealer................ >>
In other words, you don't know. Right? >>
Maybe now is a good time to buy?
<< <i>Dont use me as a market indicator. Ive come to realize that if your are really interested in just money.....then you need to be in CD's. Not stocks, not bonds, not real estate, not gold, not silver......and not coins. Just CD's.
Ive taken some losses, taken some gains. Its working out fine.
Its all about collecting for me now, Im not worrying myself over profit/loss etc etc. Maybe thats the wrong way to go about it but owning the coins I had just wasnt any fun any longer. The *Passion* had totally left. Gonezo. Lincolns...........they are pennies. That Stupid Wretched Artless Flag Back was what pushed the cart over the mountaintop. Totally lost interest, lock stock and barrel.
Now, the nice thing is.....that while * I * may have lost interest, there are lots of buyers out there who are into the series and scooping up coins Im selling. But then, I didnt buy junk. Quality Coins always will have a buyer. Nothing wrong with selling coins in a series that appears to be at the top of its market, and buying into a series that may be at the bottom of ITS market.
You have to ask yourself, to paraphrase Davey "Did I have fun with my coins today?"
And thats the way I see the world out of this narrow viewpoint.
If you are just in CD's, at current interest levels, you are not even keeping up with inflation.
True. But if someone is contemplating selling, the more relevant question is "When will it be a better time to sell?"
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Not too may ways to win with this 'economy' today.
I hate CD's. The most boring yet safest thing anyone can possibly do with their money...but what the heck fun is THAT!
<< <i>
<< <i>edit to say......besides there are not enough dealers to sell too
Sounds like you need to take a table at the ANA.
Aha, ...
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
And those that bought "bargains" in 1990-1991, saw some terrific beatings over the next 6-8 yrs as prices dropped much further. I recall picking up a superb gem MS67 seated half dime in 1993 that was at 40% of it's 1990 high. Within 3 years it was down another 30-50% from those bargain levels and really didn't turn around until a few years after that. No one knows the future. That is, whether this market turns around by next year, or takes several more years to bottom as it did in the 1990's. One can do very well by timing the eventual bottom, or get their butts handed to them by buying bargains way too early. Only Miss Cleo knows for sure.
I have been following the Muscle car auction market for 25 years. I like to go and buy something and then enjoy it and sell the car. I don't think we will ever see the prices of 5 to 10 years ago.
I thought the same thing following the muscle car peak in 1989-1990. Yet once again, those "amazing" prices were often well exceeded in the 2004-2007 market. Will we see higher prices someday down the road? I think we will. What alternatives do we have if huge amounts of play money continue to be created? I sold my last muscle car in the fall of 2004 to concentrate solely on coins and gold. Someday I hope those cars will be cheap enough again for me to want to buy back in. And then down the road there will be the issues of finding affordable gas, tailpipe emissions, clunker bills, tax decentives, etc. Frankly, I'm surprised the classic car market is still basically in good shape considering all the various legislative attempts that have been made on it since the 1990's.
roadrunner
<< <i>No one knows the future. >>
If you had simply posted this at the beginning of the thread it would have saved all of us a lot of time.
> If you had simply posted this at the beginning of the thread it would have saved all of us a lot of time.
I recently sold a I904 XF IHC for 200% profit!
Bought it years ago for $4.00 and sold it for $12.00. Looks like a GREAT time to sell.
Obviously, my experience mirrors the entire coin market.
I have sold alot of coins ( some at losses) and bought some nicer coins too at full retail...
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>So have things improved for anyone since this post?
I have sold alot of coins ( some at losses) and bought some nicer coins too at full retail...
If this last heritage sale was any indication, its a great time to sell certain series. I am holding long term though, especially my early american coinage.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>
<< <i>I watched a lot of classic cars NOT sale at auction last week because reserves were not met. Corvettes bid over 100k and falling 10k or more short of reserve. Personally i would sell and move on. I feel it may still go lower.
6 more months or a year down the road strong hands may start trembling on cars, coins and real estate. >>
Aren't Corvettes the Morgan Dollars of the classic car market; common but popular? >>
Kinda those and mustangs.
Monte carlos I get the feeling are kinda like the steel penny they stand out for being different kinda cool. Tends to always have rust on them and hold no real value. Good for use more than investment. MHO