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Stopped by the brick & mortar again...

WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
Another weekend, another wad of cash leaves me in the dust...

$7 over spot, no tax, no shipping

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We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame

Comments

  • NumbersUsacomNumbersUsacom Posts: 1,457 ✭
    Good Buy. I especially like the no tax and NOOOO shipping. The Eagle motiff is always popular.
    NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
  • Norseman88Norseman88 Posts: 962
    neat coin and a good price.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doesn't matter too much, but I had my choice of three: 2 proofs and this unc. The unc has a much smaller mintage and it's also the last of the unc & proofs of the late-80s constitution, statue, and olympic $5 commems for me to acquire.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    Weiss....you really out to use the term "over melt" rather than "over spot" on fracs like this. Just proper terminology is all.image
  • JohnTheJuteJohnTheJute Posts: 16


    << <i>... "over melt" ... "over spot" ... >>

    Please may I hijack this thread for a moment to ask what these phrases conventionally mean in the US?

    In the UK, the conventional numismatic term for the current gold price is "the fix". This is short for the London Gold Fixing, a price agreed twice every weekday by five bullion banks (one each from the US, the UK, Canada, France and Germany). It's a middle price: if you have bullion to sell, you won't get the fix price; if you want to buy, you'll pay a premium "over fix".

    (There are also London Fixings for silver, platinum and palladium.)

    My perception is that UK numismatists use "melt" to refer to the price you can get for gold that has no numismatic value ... gold that the dealer will sell on to a refiner or a jeweller who will melt it down. "Melt" is always a couple of percent or so "below fix". Unlike the fix, it isn't a price you can look up.

    In the US, the most commonly followed gold price seems to come from COMEX; isn't that a futures price? What is the source for what US folk call "spot price"?

    Later,

    John
  • carscars Posts: 1,904
    image
    Its all relative
  • JohnTheJuteJohnTheJute Posts: 16
    Thank you. That's helpful and puzzling at the same time.

    Isn't Kitco a Canadian company based in Montreal? Nothing wrong with that of course--and in to-day's networked world any local price differences would be arbitraged away in minutes--but it's a surprise that US folk should use a source from north of the border.

    Are Kitco's spot prices based on its own trading experience, or is it quoting another, primary, source?

    Later,

    John
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>... "over melt" ... "over spot" ... >>

    Please may I hijack this thread for a moment to ask what these phrases conventionally mean in the US?

    In the UK, the conventional numismatic term for the current gold price is "the fix"... >>



    John, in my experience the term "fix" and the term "spot" would be interchangeable: We use "spot" to refer to the current price of gold as it trades on the world gold market. As cars indicated in his post, that pretty much now means what Kitco.com shows as it tracks the bid price from NY to Europe to Asia and back around.

    Gecko may be technically correct--the spot price is probably more commonly used for coins and bars 1 oz and over. But spot and melt are essentially the same thing.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • JohnTheJuteJohnTheJute Posts: 16
    Thank you.
  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    image to the forum JohnTheJute.
    Becky
  • SilverEagles92SilverEagles92 Posts: 6,787 ✭
    "Spot" and "Melt" can be the same thing if we're talking about 1 oz coins, but they are not the same thing when talking about any other quantity.

    "Spot" is what currently 1 oz of gold is trading for - the chart cars linked above is "Spot"

    Now, "Melt" is based off of that figure. If Spot is $1,000 and you have a 1/4 oz of gold, the "Melt" value of that 1/4 oz of gold would be $250. Spot is still $1,000 - but the intrinsic value of the gold in 1/4 oz - the "Melt" value - is $250.

    Does that make sense?
    image
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  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>... "over melt" ... "over spot" ... >>

    Please may I hijack this thread for a moment to ask what these phrases conventionally mean in the US?

    In the UK, the conventional numismatic term for the current gold price is "the fix"... >>



    John, in my experience the term "fix" and the term "spot" would be interchangeable: We use "spot" to refer to the current price of gold as it trades on the world gold market. As cars indicated in his post, that pretty much now means what Kitco.com shows as it tracks the bid price from NY to Europe to Asia and back around.

    Gecko may be technically correct--the spot price is probably more commonly used for coins and bars 1 oz and over. But spot and melt are essentially the same thing. >>




    lets assume gold is right at $1,000/oz.

    If you bought a 1/4 oz gold coin at $8 over "spot", that implies you paid $252 for the piece ($1,008 / 4).
    If you bought a 1/4 oz gold coin at $8 over "melt", that implies you paid $258 for the piece ($1,000 / 4= $250 + $8).

    So you see Weiss, they are NOT essentially the same thing. In fact, they are VERY different terms indeed!
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tell you what gecko: I'll continue to use whatever terminology I want in my posts. If you have questions about it, feel free to PM me.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My definitions:

    Melt: gold that is over 1948 degrees Fahrenheit. Difficult to slab.

    Spot: gold with one or more small, decorative spots on its surface. Rarely found higher than MS67.

    Fix: gold whose price has allegedly been manipulated.

    All clear? image

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>Tell you what gecko: I'll continue to use whatever terminology I want in my posts. If you have questions about it, feel free to PM me. >>




    Just surprising that such a big hitter like yourself doesnt know, or even seem to care about correct bullion terminology. You may continue to be wrong at your leisure.image
  • a039a039 Posts: 1,546 ✭
    I would rather read a Weiss post with supposedly wrong terminology than your inane ramblings anyday. You and that buffoon Yaha should start your own forum.
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>I would rather read a Weiss post with supposedly wrong terminology than your inane ramblings anyday. You and that buffoon Yaha should start your own forum. >>





    image Did you actually READ what you just wrote? You would rather be fed incorrect info than read anything I may post huh? Are you 16? Are we back in highschool? Very "cliquish" attitude. I was always under the assumption that this forum served 2 main purposes. First and foremost as an enjoyable outlet for a common passion we all share. And secondly (but certainly no less important) it serves as a valuable resource of information. Here in this post, Weiss is telling you that the sky is purple. I politely (at least initially, read above posts) correct Weiss and make sure others who read dont accept his false claims as being fact. I notice you use the word "supposedly" in your response. Listen up my friend.....there IS a significant difference between the words "melt" and "spot" in the bullion world. Ask anyone who knows what the hell they are talking about (apparently you and Weiss dont), and you will quickly find out that difference. But you would rather be fed incorrect information than to be "troubled" by someone like me coming along and helping to get facts and terminology correct. Ignorance is truly bliss I suppose.
  • carscars Posts: 1,904


    << <i>Weiss....you really out to use the term "over melt" rather than "over spot" on fracs like this. Just proper terminology is all.image >>



    I tend to agree with this although I always assume "melt" was intended when spot is used for pieces under 1 oz or 1 oz pieces that are not 24k
    Its all relative
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